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Post by cccmrkennedy on Feb 19, 2008 14:53:41 GMT -5
Paul Heyman was livid and told the guys never to do stuff like that again, because it made us look second rate and inferior to the WWF. I agreed and figured if the biggest pop you could get was by imitating someone else, you didn’t really have much value as a performer. And people wonder why I think Paul E. Heyman and Lance T. Storm should work for TNA. Um, I think Paul Heyman was being a hypocrite. What about the bWo ? Wasn't that the same thing Sandman & Dreamer were doing ? Parodying/making fun of someone ?
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Post by Heresy on Feb 19, 2008 14:59:26 GMT -5
I even had someone on here a while ago suggest rhino act like a rhino and come out and snort and grunt...If that's some of you all;s idea of creativity then please dont quit your day jobs. Deskjet, it warms my heart to know you've kept my idea to repackage Rhyno fresh in your mind after all these months... shame you misconstrued that idea thereby perceiving it as something that couldn’t work... even though WWE is doing something quite similar with Festus. I’ll leave you to go find that thread in my post history and draw comparisons… What you “fail to realize” is that the few things that are original in TNA are Wrestlecrap. Are you seriously defending TNA’s credibility to be original with Serotonin and the Rock’n Rave Infection? They are one dimensional label gimmicks that were given no depth or direction… I’m not going to pretend these ideas are great because TNA is thinking by themselves on the rare occasion. Originality is one thing, effectiveness is another. Right now, TNA is pushing WWE ideas, WWE wrestlers and wrestlers who are already over… TNA has little confidence in their ability to promote their own ideas… and with “original ideas” like Black Reign, Judas Mesias, Rock'n Rave, comedy overkill, manager overkill, and gimmick matches galore… I can guess why.
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Post by deskjet on Feb 19, 2008 23:18:17 GMT -5
I even had someone on here a while ago suggest rhino act like a rhino and come out and snort and grunt...If that's some of you all;s idea of creativity then please dont quit your day jobs. Deskjet, it warms my heart to know you've kept my idea to repackage Rhyno fresh in your mind after all these months... shame you misconstrued that idea thereby perceiving it as something that couldn’t work... even though WWE is doing something quite similar with Festus. I’ll leave you to go find that thread in my post history and draw comparisons… What you “fail to realize” is that the few things that are original in TNA are Wrestlecrap. Are you seriously defending TNA’s credibility to be original with Serotonin and the Rock’n Rave Infection? They are one dimensional label gimmicks that were given no depth or direction… I’m not going to pretend these ideas are great because TNA is thinking by themselves on the rare occasion. Originality is one thing, effectiveness is another. Right now, TNA is pushing WWE ideas, WWE wrestlers and wrestlers who are already over… TNA has little confidence in their ability to promote their own ideas… and with “original ideas” like Black Reign, Judas Mesias, Rock'n Rave, comedy overkill, manager overkill, and gimmick matches galore… I can guess why. LOL, I thought that was you...the fact that you admitted it again gets a LMAO. And honestly, I fail to see the comparison to Festus. He's a intellectually- disabled person that snaps when the bell goes off. You actually wanted Rhino to be like...well a rhino, perhaps it's a bit misconstrued, but not by much. So why is TNA's originality, wrestle crap? That's the probelm, eveeryone has their standards for waht TNA should be instead of looking at what they at least are trying to do. Realy? All TNA is doing is pushing WWE ideas? In another psot, there are clear defenses of this narrowmindedness... X divsion, ultimate x, Elevation x, MCMG, the BCS, Machismo, Shark Boy. And i mention the last two because even though they are parodies of a wwe wrestler, it's the only compnay that's ever created a gimmick based on a former popular character sans the bWo.. that shows a sense or creativity in and of itself...original, perhaps not...creative, yes! And in wrestling it's a back and forth game with being original and sticking with the norm since fans are so damn fickle. Also, this damn same arguement as to TNA not pushing their own talent...do you know, more people recognize TNA now becasue of the WWE employees they brought in then their origianl stars. You ask any 20 joe blows on the street who Kaz is and they're like huh, ask that same 20 who Kurt Angle is and i bet half equate him with WWE or tna. Whether its popular or not, WWE is the standard barer. Logic says you try to be like the thing thats popular not different. How wel do you think Sony would do if they never made PS2 or PS3 to compete with Xbox. Coke makes Coke w/ lemon...what does Pepsi do? Makes Pepsi w/lemon. Again, simple logic suggests you try to simulate what's hot. As I stated before I think TNA does this; they give us a nice mix..some things WWE, some things TNA, comedy, drama, etc. Is it perfect? Hell know, but it's emtertaining on some level to somoen and that's the point. Moreover, I've seen more of TNA 's talent getting pushes than ever before(pushes meaning air time and charater development in meaningful storylines, not pushes like Jeff hardy's in WWE only for him to soar back down to mid card status a day later : I think the IWC thinks they make up the majority in the wrestling world and that's just not the case. cena gets booed outta arenas and bashed on the internet, yet his merchandise sales are the highest among WWE wrestlers...so guess what? that means more Cena on WWE. WWE aint gonna throw away a cash cow becasue a bunch of pimply face lard asses( me included ;D) don't like him. So i ask you ripper, would some punk lookin dude that has a I hate the world gimmick, with tatoos all over his body, actually entertain you, actually get you to enjoy tna? I just don't understand what some of you want. Perhaps a different perspective would help
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Post by King Shocker the Monumentous on Feb 19, 2008 23:34:36 GMT -5
And people wonder why I think Paul E. Heyman and Lance T. Storm should work for TNA. Um, I think Paul Heyman was being a hypocrite. What about the bWo ? Wasn't that the same thing Sandman & Dreamer were doing ? Parodying/making fun of someone ? We already covered that in this discussion. Read back a few posts.
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CSUMB84
Superstar
Joined on: Jan 4, 2005 3:24:32 GMT -5
Posts: 635
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Post by CSUMB84 on Feb 20, 2008 0:00:12 GMT -5
Deskjet, it warms my heart to know you've kept my idea to repackage Rhyno fresh in your mind after all these months... shame you misconstrued that idea thereby perceiving it as something that couldn’t work... even though WWE is doing something quite similar with Festus. I’ll leave you to go find that thread in my post history and draw comparisons… What you “fail to realize” is that the few things that are original in TNA are Wrestlecrap. Are you seriously defending TNA’s credibility to be original with Serotonin and the Rock’n Rave Infection? They are one dimensional label gimmicks that were given no depth or direction… I’m not going to pretend these ideas are great because TNA is thinking by themselves on the rare occasion. Originality is one thing, effectiveness is another. Right now, TNA is pushing WWE ideas, WWE wrestlers and wrestlers who are already over… TNA has little confidence in their ability to promote their own ideas… and with “original ideas” like Black Reign, Judas Mesias, Rock'n Rave, comedy overkill, manager overkill, and gimmick matches galore… I can guess why. LOL, I thought that was you...the fact that you admitted it again gets a LMAO. And honestly, I fail to see the comparison to Festus. He's a intellectually- disabled person that snaps when the bell goes off. You actually wanted Rhino to be like...well a rhino, perhaps it's a bit misconstrued, but not by much. So why is TNA's originality, wrestle crap? That's the probelm, eveeryone has their standards for waht TNA should be instead of looking at what they at least are trying to do. Realy? All TNA is doing is pushing WWE ideas? In another psot, there are clear defenses of this narrowmindedness... X divsion, ultimate x, Elevation x, MCMG, the BCS, Machismo, Shark Boy. And i mention the last two because even though they are parodies of a wwe wrestler, it's the only compnay that's ever created a gimmick based on a former popular character sans the bWo.. that shows a sense or creativity in and of itself...original, perhaps not...creative, yes! And in wrestling it's a back and forth game with being original and sticking with the norm since fans are so damn fickle. Also, this damn same arguement as to TNA not pushing their own talent...do you know, more people recognize TNA now becasue of the WWE employees they brought in then their origianl stars. You ask any 20 joe blows on the street who Kaz is and they're like huh, ask that same 20 who Kurt Angle is and i bet half equate him with WWE or tna. Whether its popular or not, WWE is the standard barer. Logic says you try to be like the thing thats popular not different. How wel do you think Sony would do if they never made PS2 or PS3 to compete with Xbox. Coke makes Coke w/ lemon...what does Pepsi do? Makes Pepsi w/lemon. Again, simple logic suggests you try to simulate what's hot. As I stated before I think TNA does this; they give us a nice mix..some things WWE, some things TNA, comedy, drama, etc. Is it perfect? Hell know, but it's emtertaining on some level to somoen and that's the point. Moreover, I've seen more of TNA 's talent getting pushes than ever before(pushes meaning air time and charater development in meaningful storylines, not pushes like Jeff hardy's in WWE only for him to soar back down to mid card status a day later : I think the IWC thinks they make up the majority in the wrestling world and that's just not the case. cena gets booed outta arenas and bashed on the internet, yet his merchandise sales are the highest among WWE wrestlers...so guess what? that means more Cena on WWE. WWE aint gonna throw away a cash cow becasue a bunch of pimply face lard asses( me included ;D) don't like him. So i ask you ripper, would some punk lookin dude that has a I hate the world gimmick, with tatoos all over his body, actually entertain you, actually get you to enjoy tna? I just don't understand what some of you want. Perhaps a different perspective would help You just made everyone's point in that post. TNA should be focusing on making homegrown talent names to casual viewers, not WWE names. Yes, WWE names can help but where is TNA's identity? Why doesn't TNA take the time and resources to get guys like Styles, Joe, Daniels, Lethal, Abyss, etc. made as household names so when you ask the average Joe on the street who such and such is, they can say without hesitation, "Oh he's in TNA." I mean, these some of the guys that got TNA recognition in the first place. Why not reward them for that and expand that recognition?
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Post by deskjet on Feb 20, 2008 0:22:55 GMT -5
LOL, I thought that was you...the fact that you admitted it again gets a LMAO. And honestly, I fail to see the comparison to Festus. He's a intellectually- disabled person that snaps when the bell goes off. You actually wanted Rhino to be like...well a rhino, perhaps it's a bit misconstrued, but not by much. So why is TNA's originality, wrestle crap? That's the probelm, eveeryone has their standards for waht TNA should be instead of looking at what they at least are trying to do. Realy? All TNA is doing is pushing WWE ideas? In another psot, there are clear defenses of this narrowmindedness... X divsion, ultimate x, Elevation x, MCMG, the BCS, Machismo, Shark Boy. And i mention the last two because even though they are parodies of a wwe wrestler, it's the only compnay that's ever created a gimmick based on a former popular character sans the bWo.. that shows a sense or creativity in and of itself...original, perhaps not...creative, yes! And in wrestling it's a back and forth game with being original and sticking with the norm since fans are so damn fickle. Also, this damn same arguement as to TNA not pushing their own talent...do you know, more people recognize TNA now becasue of the WWE employees they brought in then their origianl stars. You ask any 20 joe blows on the street who Kaz is and they're like huh, ask that same 20 who Kurt Angle is and i bet half equate him with WWE or tna. Whether its popular or not, WWE is the standard barer. Logic says you try to be like the thing thats popular not different. How wel do you think Sony would do if they never made PS2 or PS3 to compete with Xbox. Coke makes Coke w/ lemon...what does Pepsi do? Makes Pepsi w/lemon. Again, simple logic suggests you try to simulate what's hot. As I stated before I think TNA does this; they give us a nice mix..some things WWE, some things TNA, comedy, drama, etc. Is it perfect? Hell know, but it's emtertaining on some level to somoen and that's the point. Moreover, I've seen more of TNA 's talent getting pushes than ever before(pushes meaning air time and charater development in meaningful storylines, not pushes like Jeff hardy's in WWE only for him to soar back down to mid card status a day later : I think the IWC thinks they make up the majority in the wrestling world and that's just not the case. cena gets booed outta arenas and bashed on the internet, yet his merchandise sales are the highest among WWE wrestlers...so guess what? that means more Cena on WWE. WWE aint gonna throw away a cash cow becasue a bunch of pimply face lard asses( me included ;D) don't like him. So i ask you ripper, would some punk lookin dude that has a I hate the world gimmick, with tatoos all over his body, actually entertain you, actually get you to enjoy tna? I just don't understand what some of you want. Perhaps a different perspective would help You just made everyone's point in that post. TNA should be focusing on making homegrown talent names to casual viewers, not WWE names. Yes, WWE names can help but where is TNA's identity? Why doesn't TNA take the time and resources to get guys like Styles, Joe, Daniels, Lethal, Abyss, etc. made as household names so when you ask the average Joe on the street who such and such is, they can say without hesitation, "Oh he's in TNA." I mean, these some of the guys that got TNA recognition in the first place. Why not reward them for that and expand that recognition? OMFG!!! Did you read what i wrote. Do you really think putting the title on shelley or sabin and not having guys from WWE mixed in there is gonna boost ratings at all? they tried that shyt for 3 years and people still didnt know who they were. Again, it's this IWC mindset that makes up a minority of the fans. Should some of the homegrown get some Championship love? Absolutely, and thay have and they will. I'd say the only thing that got TNA recognized was the x divsion style, certainly not any of the wrestlers because nobody ever new who they were. And for the last time, the homegrown talent is getting an identity. People know these gusy better now then they did 3 years ago! Why because TNA has more viewers. Why? Because TNA appeals to a more global market rather than catering to the bingo halls and indy feds of the cities of America. I watched TNA becasue I wanted some thing diffeernt from WWE, and I got that, and guess what, even with all the influx of WWE, I STILL get that...are the same guys still there? some are, some arent, but when you're building a company with one show, you have to tweak it as best you can. I understand TNA has to build their own stars arguement but you also have to rember they need the viewers to stay interested so they can develop those characters. I think MCMG's, Kax, Petey, Johnny divine, Lethal are all getting recognized. And trust me, more people know them better now then they did when they first started. Another thing you need to look at is marketing...you're looking at TNA with imited funds, to WWE conglomerates with billions. IF you're TNA you better pull out all the stops to get your company recognized. And throwing out a bunch of no names aint gonna work.
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T1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 23, 2008 11:51:45 GMT -5
Posts: 2,511
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Post by T1 on Feb 20, 2008 0:40:44 GMT -5
You just made everyone's point in that post. TNA should be focusing on making homegrown talent names to casual viewers, not WWE names. Yes, WWE names can help but where is TNA's identity? Why doesn't TNA take the time and resources to get guys like Styles, Joe, Daniels, Lethal, Abyss, etc. made as household names so when you ask the average Joe on the street who such and such is, they can say without hesitation, "Oh he's in TNA." I mean, these some of the guys that got TNA recognition in the first place. Why not reward them for that and expand that recognition? OMFG!!! Did you read what i wrote. Do you really think putting the title on shelley or sabin and not having guys from WWE mixed in there is gonna boost ratings at all? they tried that shyt for 3 years and people still didnt know who they were. Again, it's this IWC mindset that makes up a minority of the fans. Should some of the homegrown get some Championship love? Absolutely, and thay have and they will. I'd say the only thing that got TNA recognized was the x divsion style, certainly not any of the wrestlers because nobody ever new who they were. And for the last time, the homegrown talent is getting an identity. People know these gusy better now then they did 3 years ago! Why because TNA has more viewers. Why? Because TNA appeals to a more global market rather than catering to the bingo halls and indy feds of the cities of America. I watched TNA becasue I wanted some thing diffeernt from WWE, and I got that, and guess what, even with all the influx of WWE, I STILL get that...are the same guys still there? some are, some arent, but when you're building a company with one show, you have to tweak it as best you can. I understand TNA has to build their own stars arguement but you also have to rember they need the viewers to stay interested so they can develop those characters. I think MCMG's, Kax, Petey, Johnny divine, Lethal are all getting recognized. And trust me, more people know them better now then they did when they first started. Another thing you need to look at is marketing...you're looking at TNA with imited funds, to WWE conglomerates with billions. IF you're TNA you better pull out all the stops to get your company recognized. And throwing out a bunch of no names aint gonna work. Ugh, yes you are right to some degree. You need established names mixed in. But the whole reason of having WWE stars mixed in is to HELP ELEVATE homegrown talent. Kurt Angle shouldn't have held/be holding the World Title for the last 8 Months( barring 3 days). He should have been given the World Title, only as a transitional champ to help elevate a Samoa Joe, or an Alex Shelley. That's everybody's problem with TNA. It's not that they sign WWE " rejects". It's that they push them to the moon and ignore their talent. You say you can't give Kaz the World Title and have him be a recognizable name, and you're right. But if he wins the World Title from Kurt Angle and has a bunch of great matches with Kurt Angle, Booker T, & Christian Cage( recognizable names), then HE BECOMES A RECOGNIZABLE NAME. But TNA never likes having the homegrown talent go over, so they're never going to become household names.
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Post by deskjet on Feb 20, 2008 1:06:29 GMT -5
OMFG!!! Did you read what i wrote. Do you really think putting the title on shelley or sabin and not having guys from WWE mixed in there is gonna boost ratings at all? they tried that shyt for 3 years and people still didnt know who they were. Again, it's this IWC mindset that makes up a minority of the fans. Should some of the homegrown get some Championship love? Absolutely, and thay have and they will. I'd say the only thing that got TNA recognized was the x divsion style, certainly not any of the wrestlers because nobody ever new who they were. And for the last time, the homegrown talent is getting an identity. People know these gusy better now then they did 3 years ago! Why because TNA has more viewers. Why? Because TNA appeals to a more global market rather than catering to the bingo halls and indy feds of the cities of America. I watched TNA becasue I wanted some thing diffeernt from WWE, and I got that, and guess what, even with all the influx of WWE, I STILL get that...are the same guys still there? some are, some arent, but when you're building a company with one show, you have to tweak it as best you can. I understand TNA has to build their own stars arguement but you also have to rember they need the viewers to stay interested so they can develop those characters. I think MCMG's, Kax, Petey, Johnny divine, Lethal are all getting recognized. And trust me, more people know them better now then they did when they first started. Another thing you need to look at is marketing...you're looking at TNA with imited funds, to WWE conglomerates with billions. IF you're TNA you better pull out all the stops to get your company recognized. And throwing out a bunch of no names aint gonna work. Ugh, yes you are right to some degree. You need established names mixed in. But the whole reason of having WWE stars mixed in is to HELP ELEVATE homegrown talent. Kurt Angle shouldn't have held/be holding the World Title for the last 8 Months( barring 3 days). He should have been given the World Title, only as a transitional champ to help elevate a Samoa Joe, or an Alex Shelley. That's everybody's problem with TNA. It's not that they sign WWE " rejects". It's that they push them to the moon and ignore their talent. You say you can't give Kaz the World Title and have him be a recognizable name, and you're right. But if he wins the World Title from Kurt Angle and has a bunch of great matches with Kurt Angle, Booker T, & Christian Cage( recognizable names), then HE BECOMES A RECOGNIZABLE NAME. But TNA never likes having the homegrown talent go over, so they're never going to become household names. That, I will totally agree with you. While the talent is getting time on tv and it's good for them, TNA should make homegrown on par with WWE in the world title picture, and I'd say more frequently..something TNA has teased and teased to death but for some reason, never did anything with it. They would really benefit with a Jeff hardy like build up with say Aj styles, or Kaz then have it payoff with a victory. Keep the title on that person for awhile and go from there. I guess from that perspective I can see how TNA's has failed to establsih their own identity, guess I'll just blindly hope that one day they'll get it right in the respect.
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CSUMB84
Superstar
Joined on: Jan 4, 2005 3:24:32 GMT -5
Posts: 635
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Post by CSUMB84 on Feb 20, 2008 2:27:41 GMT -5
Ugh, yes you are right to some degree. You need established names mixed in. But the whole reason of having WWE stars mixed in is to HELP ELEVATE homegrown talent. Kurt Angle shouldn't have held/be holding the World Title for the last 8 Months( barring 3 days). He should have been given the World Title, only as a transitional champ to help elevate a Samoa Joe, or an Alex Shelley. That's everybody's problem with TNA. It's not that they sign WWE " rejects". It's that they push them to the moon and ignore their talent. You say you can't give Kaz the World Title and have him be a recognizable name, and you're right. But if he wins the World Title from Kurt Angle and has a bunch of great matches with Kurt Angle, Booker T, & Christian Cage( recognizable names), then HE BECOMES A RECOGNIZABLE NAME. But TNA never likes having the homegrown talent go over, so they're never going to become household names. That, I will totally agree with you. While the talent is getting time on tv and it's good for them, TNA should make homegrown on par with WWE in the world title picture, and I'd say more frequently..something TNA has teased and teased to death but for some reason, never did anything with it. They would really benefit with a Jeff hardy like build up with say Aj styles, or Kaz then have it payoff with a victory. Keep the title on that person for awhile and go from there. I guess from that perspective I can see how TNA's has failed to establsih their own identity, guess I'll just blindly hope that one day they'll get it right in the respect. That right there is what I have been trying to get across in my posts.
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Post by Heresy on Feb 20, 2008 8:12:58 GMT -5
LOL, I thought that was you...the fact that you admitted it again gets a LMAO. And honestly, I fail to see the comparison to Festus. He's a intellectually- disabled person that snaps when the bell goes off. You actually wanted Rhino to be like...well a rhino, perhaps it's a bit misconstrued, but not by much. LMAO? The idea was to have Rhyno act as if his opponent wasn't in the ring, and then go ape **** on him when he got too close... similar to how the animal of the same name keeps to itself until it feels it's territory is threatened by an invader, and similar to how Festus goes ape **** when the bell rings. Not quite the same, but similar enough. It was you that twisted the idea into something rediculous for your own amusement I suppose... and I'm sure whatever that 'something' was would have fit fine in a promotion with a foreigner with a plate of curry on his dome and a Sharkboy that actually acts like... well a SHARK. Anyway, I'm glad someone finally squeezed some water out of that rock you might call your brain and got you to admit one of TNA's faults... hope in this vast universe is restored.
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Post by deskjet on Feb 20, 2008 8:29:52 GMT -5
LOL, I thought that was you...the fact that you admitted it again gets a LMAO. And honestly, I fail to see the comparison to Festus. He's a intellectually- disabled person that snaps when the bell goes off. You actually wanted Rhino to be like...well a rhino, perhaps it's a bit misconstrued, but not by much. LMAO? The idea was to have Rhyno act as if his opponent wasn't in the ring, and then go ape **** on him when he got too close... similar to how the animal of the same name keeps to itself until it feels it's territory is threatened by an invader, and similar to how Festus goes ape **** when the bell rings. Not quite the same, but similar enough. It was you that twisted the idea into something rediculous for your own amusement I suppose... and I'm sure whatever that 'something' was would have fit fine in a promotion with a foreigner with a plate of curry on his dome and a Sharkboy that actually acts like... well a SHARK. Anyway, I'm glad someone finally squeezed some water out of that rock you might call your brain and got you to admit one of TNA's faults... hope in this vast universe is restored. Well at least I have something in my head ;D. Please, I'm not oblivious to think that TNA does not have it's faults...I'm quite aware of that and have stated that time and again. I defend the product because it has not been, of late, with the exception of thursday , as bad as it was a few months ago. Now you look at my posts a few months back and i bash the product more than I defend it. Hell, look at my post in the impact thread from Thursday. The fact is i dont feel the need to bash the product every chance I get like some poeple on here do. If people are pointing out the problems as well as the good things, then I think that's fair and fair to the promotion. But to constantly talk it down when nothing is gonna change is annoying. So, imo, TNA is doing the right thing by getting their roster air time, pushing them in angles, and trying to appeal to the mass market. However, they need to to do a better job of getting homegrown talent up in the world title picture more, and they need to start to distinguish the divsions better. these gimmicks and skits and all this stuff that people complain about is rather subjective to opinion, and I'll leave it at that. SO i feel TNA does things right and wrong..the other things..gimmicks, skits, types of matches is hit or miss, and with a company this young, is an affordable risk and is something you either like or dislike but should not soley define the company.
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