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Post by layton on Jan 29, 2009 22:59:26 GMT -5
My argument is not that Bret Hart is bad. I think he is a pretty good wrestler. I do not at all think he is the best ever as he proclaims.
HOWEVER, the way you put this threat does not make sense. Are you saying anyone that can do moves that Cena can't do is one of the "best wrestlers ever"? First of all, Cena is not one of the best wrestlers ever, and even if he was, just because someone can do moves that he cannot, does not make them great.
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Post by skribbel24 on Jan 29, 2009 23:02:05 GMT -5
If you didn't watch Bret during his era, you may not appreciate him. I was there during the early Hart Foundation era to his rise as IC champ and WWF champ, and I strongly consider him as one of the all-time greatest wrestlers and story-tellers ever.
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Post by hitmanclub on Jan 29, 2009 23:03:27 GMT -5
One could make an argument for Bret Hart being THE best of all-time... But I think the beauty of Hart's work was how he "told the story" throughout the matches. That's not really shown well in a highlight film. Yeah he may not be jumping off ladders and all that other stuff. But his matches told stories and kept you watching. Plus he did almost every move perfect. And his mic skills were a lot better then what people say, he def wasn't the best but he was good on the mic. Also yes most people here will think he is overrated because they became fans around year 2000. Meaning they missed tons of awesome bret hart stuff, and became fans of wrestling during a different time. Wrestling in 2000's + is nothing like wrestling during the 80's and 90's.
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Post by yankeesforever on Jan 29, 2009 23:05:05 GMT -5
I personally love Bret Hart and I think he's one of the best in-ring storytellers ever. I've noticed a lot of people here think he's overrated, but I'll always think he's one of the very best. He's a great technician and evenwhen he doesnt use every move under the sun his in-ring psychology is verygood and "real" seeming ... his in-ring logic and moves don't seem phony like some other wrestlers. Of course people here think he's overrated. There are very few fans on this board that knows good wrestling because of their ages. When I see people who say they didn't watch wrestling before 2001 and all that call Bret Hart overrated I don't take their opinion very seriously especially when they are fans of some of the crap you see today like Batista. Yes Yes Yes! People here think Brian Kendrick is a great wreslter. Give me a break.
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Post by hitmanclub on Jan 29, 2009 23:18:25 GMT -5
My argument is not that Bret Hart is bad. I think he is a pretty good wrestler. I do not at all think he is the best ever as he proclaims. HOWEVER, the way you put this threat does not make sense. Are you saying anyone that can do moves that Cena can't do is one of the "best wrestlers ever"? First of all, Cena is not one of the best wrestlers ever, and even if he was, just because someone can do moves that he cannot, does not make them great. no all i was really saying is cena can't really do "wrestling" moves. Bret is one of the best ever tho, he had good mic skills, good not great. He was a great "wrestler" (this is wrestling) He has one of the best wrestling minds and told great stories in the ring. His moves looked great and real from a pile driver to a punch and a kick. He was able to have a great match with ANYONE. Weather they were 5"6 150 pounds or 6"8 300 + pounds. If you put Cena up against Yokozuna(some people might not even know who that is) it prob would be the most boring match ever.
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Post by The Best on Jan 29, 2009 23:27:51 GMT -5
My argument is not that Bret Hart is bad. I think he is a pretty good wrestler. I do not at all think he is the best ever as he proclaims. HOWEVER, the way you put this threat does not make sense. Are you saying anyone that can do moves that Cena can't do is one of the "best wrestlers ever"? First of all, Cena is not one of the best wrestlers ever, and even if he was, just because someone can do moves that he cannot, does not make them great. no all i was really saying is cena can't really do "wrestling" moves. Bret is one of the best ever tho, he had good mic skills, good not great. He was a great "wrestler" (this is wrestling) He has one of the best wrestling minds and told great stories in the ring. His moves looked great and real from a pile driver to a punch and a kick. He was able to have a great match with ANYONE. Weather they were 5"6 150 pounds or 6"8 300 + pounds. If you put Cena up against Yokozuna(some people might not even know who that is) it prob would be the most boring match ever. Really? Cena, who's been wrestling for probably more than 6-7 years (don't know the exact date he started) can't do basic wrestling moves? Do you watch any of his PPV matches? Everyone here hates on him, and i'm not even a fan of him, but he has great matches consistently and can do any style. Look at his matches with HBK and Jericho, some of the reversals in those matches were amazing. And he had very good matches with Batista and Lashley, and even brought Khali to a decent match. So yea, i'd say he knows how to wrestle and do basic moves.
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Post by hitmanclub on Jan 29, 2009 23:30:48 GMT -5
id love to see a video of him having a great wrestling match...and that kahli match..... Oh and watch that 35 MIN match he had with HBK on Raw in 2007. The wrestling moves he did was a headlock, suplex, his stfu and his leg drop off the ropes. Other then that a bunch of closelines and punches. That match was carried by shawn michaels, bret hart never had to be carried during a match.
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Post by HugoOne on Jan 29, 2009 23:52:07 GMT -5
I don't find Bret overrated, at all. I don't care for him much as a person after reading his book but he is a definite legend in that ring. Numerous five star matches, countless fantastic matches, and he could carry or keep up with just about anyone.
But to compare him to Cena is silly; they're two different types of wrestlers and no one else compares them together.
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Post by WalterF on Jan 29, 2009 23:54:30 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but anyone who tries to compare Cena's wrestling ability to Bret Hart's is insane. I guarentee you that even if you candidly asked some experienced in the business, like JR even, they would tell you Bret is one of the best workers of all time.
I'm not knocking Cena. I don't personally like him, but I can't knock his determination and his total dedication to WWE. But he is not a GREAT worker and I'm honestly sure that Cena, himself, wouldn't even claim he's a spectacular worker.
A lot of people today I noticed have ADD when it comes to wrestling and if someone has a resthold on for more than 20 seconds, you start hearing the "borig boring" chants going on. Bret Hart wrestled a realistic wrestling style. If you watch his moves, he did smart things and maneuvers that could logically work in a shoot. That's why I like his style so much. I love high-flying wrestling too, but Bret really did the best to capture a realistic power-struggle in a match. And his storytelling is only matches by, in my opinion, Shawn Michaels.
The biggest knock I see is everyone says Bret has the five moves of doom and its similar to Cena, but just because Bret has 5 signature moves does not make him stylistically anything smilar to John Cena. Bret knew how to construct a good match with suspense, great storytelling and reverals and really all the good stuff fans of real wrestling like.
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Post by hitmanclub on Jan 30, 2009 0:28:16 GMT -5
also to the people who say i shouldn't compare cena to bret, they have 2 different styles. I understand that, that comment was not to you people. I understand Cena is a Brawler, that comment was to the people who really think Cena is a actual GREAT WRESTLER! As you can see from this thread there are people like that out there.
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Post by savethewhcjericho on Jan 30, 2009 0:32:40 GMT -5
im a huge chris jericho superfan but i'll be honest bret hart is the greatest of all time. noone in wwe history has has better matches, ss 91 and ss92 were masterpeices.
it annoys that people try to say michaels is a better performer noooooooooo michaels is flashier and prettier in the ring but bret is way more realistic and much more of a wrestler.
as far as john cena goes lol, he doesent deserve to be mentioned anywhere near the hitman. cena is a peice of crapcartoon character.
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Post by hitmanclub on Jan 30, 2009 0:39:20 GMT -5
im a huge chris jericho superfan but i'll be honest bret hart is the greatest of all time. noone in wwe history has has better matches, ss 91 and ss92 were masterpeices. it annoys that people try to say michaels is a better performer noooooooooo michaels is flashier and prettier in the ring but bret is way more realistic and much more of a wrestler. as far as john cena goes lol, he doesent deserve to be mentioned anywhere near the hitman. cena is a peice of **** cartoon character. yeah the greatest thing about bret was, what he did in the ring you could see really happening if you were in a battle with someone.. If you show a non wrestling fan bret hart matches, they may think its REAL.
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Post by aznelite on Jan 30, 2009 0:43:54 GMT -5
who ever doesnt think hart is one of the best wwe wrestlers is obviously a moron.
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Dwight
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 10, 2007 11:02:46 GMT -5
Posts: 2,686
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Post by Dwight on Jan 30, 2009 0:48:40 GMT -5
The Best There Ever Will Be. He wasn't lying.
I'm not even gonna touch this stupid comparison between Cena and Hart because there isn't one. Each is talented for different reasons.
But I have noticed one thing. Bret Hart had a lot of those types of finishes with roll ups and such out of the blue. And I really don't understand why it isn't done that much at all now. Mostly it is some heel getting a roll up with tights but nothing like what Bret would do on a consistent basis. It made the matches truely unpredictable and you believed they could end at any moment.
I miss that.
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Post by jomoishollywood on Jan 30, 2009 0:51:50 GMT -5
Bret is a little bitch. Great wrestler, but his attitude nowadays is ing garbage.
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Post by "Vintage" HBK Still Rules on Jan 30, 2009 0:52:26 GMT -5
The only "impressive" moments of that video was when he reversed Steve Austin's Million Dollar Dream, Razor Ramon, and Roddy Piper's Sleeper. Otherwise, just a vido of him doing common reversals and pins.
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Post by Johnny Wrestling on Jan 30, 2009 0:59:56 GMT -5
My argument is not that Bret Hart is bad. I think he is a pretty good wrestler. I do not at all think he is the best ever as he proclaims. I'm pretty sure you don't know why he calls himself the best. He does because of 3 reasons: 1. He never missed a show. 2. He never injured an opponent (which is a coincidence because his career ended because of someone injuring him). 3. Never refused to lose a match, except for one which was understandable.
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Post by hitmanclub on Jan 30, 2009 1:30:10 GMT -5
The only "impressive" moments of that video was when he reversed Steve Austin's Million Dollar Dream, Razor Ramon, and Roddy Piper's Sleeper. Otherwise, just a vido of him doing common reversals and pins. Its the way the matches were finish, and a lot of the moves were great too tho.... Mr perfect, he surprises everyone with a roll up, bret reverses it to win tho. Sting has bret in sharpshooter, bret reverses it to his own shapshooter to win. Both endings with benoits was just awesome wrestling, ending in sharpshooter out of no ware. Diesel match, bret looked like he was done and couldn't move. Only to surprise everyone with a roll up to win. Haukushi move was great, same with bam bam. You don't see a lot of finishers like that anymore. You pretty much can predict when the end of a match is going to come, like the other guy said bret hart matches could end ANYTIME.
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Post by HugoOne on Jan 30, 2009 1:32:00 GMT -5
also to the people who say i shouldn't compare cena to bret, they have 2 different styles. I understand that, that comment was not to you people. I understand Cena is a Brawler, that comment was to the people who really think Cena is a actual GREAT WRESTLER! As you can see from this thread there are people like that out there. He's a damn fine storyteller, Cena is. He is a good wrestler. You can be a great wrestler though, and have an entirely different style than another great wrestler.
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Bret_Hart_Mark™
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 5, 2005 13:34:12 GMT -5
Posts: 2,272
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Post by Bret_Hart_Mark™ on Jan 30, 2009 2:42:32 GMT -5
Creating a thread to praise Bret Hart will NEVER get over here on WF because the majority of the people who will contribute to the thread are people who can't stand Bret Hart and would rather bash him. Also, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I respectfully disagree with people that consider him boring or overrated. Bret is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time, but I really couldn't care less about how many moves he or anyone else uses, as I'm more interested in the story that is told with the moves used. Bret was always more concerned with the psychology of his matches, and I'd rather watch someone with that mindset than a guy pulling off 500 different moves in a ten minute match just to say his moveset is 'diverse'. I personally love Bret Hart and I think he's one of the best in-ring storytellers ever. I've noticed a lot of people here think he's overrated, but I'll always think he's one of the very best. He's a great technician and evenwhen he doesnt use every move under the sun his in-ring psychology is verygood and "real" seeming ... his in-ring logic and moves don't seem phony like some other wrestlers. Of course people here think he's overrated. There are very few fans on this board that knows good wrestling because of their ages. When I see people who say they didn't watch wrestling before 2001 and all that call Bret Hart overrated I don't take their opinion very seriously especially when they are fans of some of the crap you see today like Batista. I agree 100% with all of you. I find it funny and very sad that so many on this board want to call someone overrated or boring when they have only been watching wrestling for a short amount of time, and then compare the horrible stuff they have been watching to snippets of tapes of guys they have never actually taken time to watch. Or that they at least learned what an art it is to tell a story in the ring, and how many of his peers have given him the most praise for that said reason. Not only that but many of the guys that these haters worship would kill to have a match with Bret any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I don't mind you not liking a guy for whatever reason, but at least give me more of an in depth reason as to why you don't like the guy other than the lame "He's bland", or "He's overrated". That just makes you sound like mindless sheep.
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