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Post by ztj_wwf on Feb 26, 2009 19:58:22 GMT -5
What classic matches that are praised by many, do you think are just a tad overrated? I honestly think Steamboat/Savage and HBK/Razor were both great yet not as great as people make them out to be and slightly overrated. What matches do you think are not as good as people say that they are?
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Post by Matt on Feb 26, 2009 20:06:53 GMT -5
I was actually going to make a thread about Steamboat/Savage myself. The match is good and was amazing when it first took place, but so many better matches have happened since than. People really need to let go of that match.
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Post by HugoOne on Feb 26, 2009 21:49:00 GMT -5
I was actually going to make a thread about Steamboat/Savage myself. The match is good and was amazing when it first took place, but so many better matches have happened since than. People really need to let go of that match. I really, really could not, respectfully, disagree more. That is a perfect match. There isn't a single move that resembles a botch. The psychology is great. The crowd is wild and into every near fall. Both men came out looking like a Champion. And the storyline built up was phenomenal. And it was just a great, great wrestling match...not to mention how many wrestlers these days list that match as an inspiration for their career. I think that deserves every bit of praise it gets personally. I think that Bret vs. Shawn at Wrestlemania 12 was not as good as everyone thinks. Great match? To be sure. But not five stars. I wouldn't even list it in the top five matches of Wrestlemania. Of course, I'm biased because I hated Shawn winning at the time, as I was such a Hitman mark. But still, I feel the match is a tad bit overrated. |
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Post by Juba on Feb 26, 2009 23:07:13 GMT -5
Andre/Hogan...come on for the most famous match in history it is really a boring match.
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Post by layton on Feb 26, 2009 23:56:51 GMT -5
What classic matches that are praised by many, do you think are just a tad overrated? I honestly think Steamboat/Savage and HBK/Razor were both great yet not as great as people make them out to be and slightly overrated. What matches do you think are not as good as people say that they are? Which HBK/Razor match are you referring to? I assume it is the WMX ladder match in which case it is not overrated at all. They paved the way for the Hardyz, Edge and Christian, Chris Jericho, John Morrison, Shelton Benjamin and for all the other ladder matches down the road. Without this match, we would not have any of the classic TLC or MITB matches. This match defined innovative. If you look back on it after the fact, it does seem elementary and almost boring. At the time, though, it was the best match of the night, and probably, of the year. I very much disagree with you on this one. |
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Post by Ultimate Figure Collector on Feb 27, 2009 1:48:00 GMT -5
I can already tell you this thread is gonna be full of teenage kids saying matches are overrated that was before their time. Savage/Steamboat is not overrated at all. Yes there are plenty of matches better now of days but you have to remember the match was way ahead of it's time. Many wrestlers were inspired by the match and rightfully so.
HBK/Razor also isn't overrated because again it was an innovative match. Plus the psychology in it was good which most ladder matches lack now of days.
I don't know how anyone can call HBK/Bret from WrestleMania 12 overrated, only on WF folks. That is a perfect match if there ever was one. Another match that told a great story and was just phenomenal. I think the people that hate this match are either Bret Hart fans or just can't sit through one hour matches because they don't have the attention span.
Anyways, I've never been a Hogan fan ever so I think most of his matches are overrated because the crowd made them good not Hogan but I'm not gonna pick a Hogan match. Even though Hogan/Andre was terrible that made Hogan's career. Hogan didn't make Hogan's career, Vince didn't make Hogan's career, Andre did by Hogan slamming him and beating him.
Anyways, I'm gonna say that any of Cena & Edge's matches other than the TLC is overrated. People on WF seem to love their matches when they have honestly never really impressed me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2009 5:40:11 GMT -5
I find the Hart Foundation vs Bulldogs from WMIII to be overrated.
as for Razor Ramon vs HBK.......neither Ladder match they had was overrated IMO-in fact SS95 just edged out WMX for me.
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Feb 27, 2009 8:29:56 GMT -5
For the older matches, you have to keep them in context. Not only did fans in 1987 have a different idea of what constituted a "great match," but it's just evolution: Over the course of 20 years, new wrestlers come up with new ideas, cooler-looking moves, ideas to create drama, etc.
Some of the stuff in Savage vs. Steamboat seems routine and elementary now for one very important reason: Because everyone copied it, to the point where the key spots have become overdone. The fact that anyone even bothered to copy from that match shows how awesome it was for the time.
Even a move like the small package, while not totally unheard of in 1987, was considered an innovative way to trap an opponent into a surprise pinfall. Today, small packages are commonplace... and Steamboat-Savage helped make that happen by inspiring people to overdo that spot. In 1987, that was a fairly advanced technical move. In 2009, it's considered a fundamental move.
Back on topic: I always thought Sabu's matches in general were overrated. It seems like his best-received matches all hinge on two key points: Did he actually connect on his high spots more than usual, and did he absorb an insane amount of punishment. To me, that's kind of fun to watch at times, but I wouldn't call it great wrestling.
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Post by Great White Shark on Feb 27, 2009 8:43:36 GMT -5
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart @ WMX Yes i'm kidding.  |
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Post by STOMWIJF on Feb 27, 2009 9:01:19 GMT -5
Andre/Hogan...come on for the most famous match in history it is really a boring match. Agreed. The build up to WM3 Hulk/Andre was great and impressive, but the match was very slow paced and boring. Andre couldn't wrestle and was very slow (unlike Big Show). |
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Post by moogie101 on Feb 27, 2009 9:04:15 GMT -5
Andre/Hogan...come on for the most famous match in history it is really a boring match. Agreed. The build up to WM3 Hulk/Andre was great and impressive, but the match was very slow paced and boring. Andre couldn't wrestle and was very slow (unlike Big Show). But no-one claims it is a great mastch just historic so hardly over-rated. For me it's Bret/ HBK WM Iron Man Yeah they went an hour which is a great achievement but reached the time with stalling & rest holds. Watch the match again, hardly anything happens for very long periods of time. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2009 9:42:22 GMT -5
I can already tell you this thread is gonna be full of teenage kids saying matches are overrated that was before their time. Savage/Steamboat is not overrated at all. Yes there are plenty of matches better now of days but you have to remember the match was way ahead of it's time. Many wrestlers were inspired by the match and rightfully so. HBK/Razor also isn't overrated because again it was an innovative match. Plus the psychology in it was good which most ladder matches lack now of days. I don't know how anyone can call HBK/Bret from WrestleMania 12 overrated, only on WF folks. That is a perfect match if there ever was one. Another match that told a great story and was just phenomenal. I think the people that hate this match are either Bret Hart fans or just can't sit through one hour matches because they don't have the attention span. Anyways, I've never been a Hogan fan ever so I think most of his matches are overrated because the crowd made them good not Hogan but I'm not gonna pick a Hogan match. Even though Hogan/Andre was terrible that made Hogan's career. Hogan didn't make Hogan's career, Vince didn't make Hogan's career, Andre did by Hogan slamming him and beating him. Anyways, I'm gonna say that any of Cena & Edge's matches other than the TLC is overrated. People on WF seem to love their matches when they have honestly never really impressed me. |
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Post by HugoOne on Feb 27, 2009 13:43:13 GMT -5
I don't know how anyone can call HBK/Bret from WrestleMania 12 overrated, only on WF folks. That is a perfect match if there ever was one. Another match that told a great story and was just phenomenal. I think the people that hate this match are either Bret Hart fans or just can't sit through one hour matches because they don't have the attention span. Untrue. It's not about attention span. It's not about age; I'm 22 years old and I've been watching since 1993. I'm as much a Shawn Michaels fan as I am a Bret Hart fan these days. There were numerous times in the match that a pinfall would have been believable, and it led to a couple different problems. Either a) neither man wanted to be the first to job, which has been rumored a couple of times, or b) about through the halfway point when there were no falls, it was expected that there would be only one fall, which made most of the match pointless. That fall would either be at the very end or in sudden death, which made the time leading up to that sequence, pointless. Now, if they had a singles match and just wrestled a full hour instead of calling it an Iron Man match, it would have been more believable, because you still could expect the fall at anytime. But when you have an hour long match and half way through, you know there won't be a single fall until the last two minutes, it tarnishes the match. Was it great and revolutionary? Yes, but I won't call it a five star match because I don't believe it was one, and considering many people do, I find it to be overrated. |
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ICHIBAN 一番
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Post by ICHIBAN 一番 on Feb 27, 2009 14:24:11 GMT -5
...Crowds make matches, andre hogan wm3 was poor but watchable due to the heat.
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Post by Ultimate Figure Collector on Feb 27, 2009 15:38:23 GMT -5
I don't know how anyone can call HBK/Bret from WrestleMania 12 overrated, only on WF folks. That is a perfect match if there ever was one. Another match that told a great story and was just phenomenal. I think the people that hate this match are either Bret Hart fans or just can't sit through one hour matches because they don't have the attention span. Untrue. It's not about attention span. It's not about age; I'm 22 years old and I've been watching since 1993. I'm as much a Shawn Michaels fan as I am a Bret Hart fan these days. There were numerous times in the match that a pinfall would have been believable, and it led to a couple different problems. Either a) neither man wanted to be the first to job, which has been rumored a couple of times, or b) about through the halfway point when there were no falls, it was expected that there would be only one fall, which made most of the match pointless. That fall would either be at the very end or in sudden death, which made the time leading up to that sequence, pointless. Now, if they had a singles match and just wrestled a full hour instead of calling it an Iron Man match, it would have been more believable, because you still could expect the fall at anytime. But when you have an hour long match and half way through, you know there won't be a single fall until the last two minutes, it tarnishes the match. Was it great and revolutionary? Yes, but I won't call it a five star match because I don't believe it was one, and considering many people do, I find it to be overrated. Obviously you missed the psychology in it then. Both guys took each other to the limit but neither could score a pin fall. Both were well conditioned athletes that it had to go to sudden death for their to be a winner. |
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Post by HugoOne on Feb 27, 2009 16:05:30 GMT -5
Obviously you missed the psychology in it then. Both guys took each other to the limit but neither could score a pin fall. Both were well conditioned athletes that it had to go to sudden death for their to be a winner. No, I understood what they were going for, but there were numerous times they could, or I should say, SHOULD, have realistically scored the pin fall or submission, and the fact that they didn't hurt the believability of the match. |
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Post by Ultimate Figure Collector on Feb 27, 2009 16:40:58 GMT -5
Obviously you missed the psychology in it then. Both guys took each other to the limit but neither could score a pin fall. Both were well conditioned athletes that it had to go to sudden death for their to be a winner. No, I understood what they were going for, but there were numerous times they could, or I should say, SHOULD, have realistically scored the pin fall or submission, and the fact that they didn't hurt the believability of the match. Then the psychology would of been thrown out the window. Great idea! |
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Post by HugoOne on Feb 27, 2009 17:09:35 GMT -5
No, I understood what they were going for, but there were numerous times they could, or I should say, SHOULD, have realistically scored the pin fall or submission, and the fact that they didn't hurt the believability of the match. Then the psychology would of been thrown out the window. Great idea! OMG I love sarcasm! If the psychology is hurting the match, then yes, it should be changed. Or there shouldn't have been occurrences where a pinfall should have feasibly occurred; it could have been covered up better. Which would be a mistake on the performers. Which hurts the match. |
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Post by K5 on Feb 27, 2009 21:42:32 GMT -5
hulk hogan's entire career.
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Ross
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Post by Ross on Feb 27, 2009 21:45:53 GMT -5
hulk hogan vs andre
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