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Post by bonboch69 on Jun 21, 2009 4:37:19 GMT -5
I wanna be able to say Drew Brees...
But its, unfortunately, Tom Brady
Not saying i dislike Brady, but I want Drew Brees to be the Best.
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Post by katphishjake on Jun 21, 2009 11:46:29 GMT -5
Well, he was drafted to play in Major League baseball. That's something Brady isn't even capable of doing. I mean, if you want to bring up systems, NO ONE is a product of the system they run more than Brady. That's why it's hard to even have this discussion, there are too many "what ifs". I like Elway because I feel he was the most versatile QB. If it's an Elway-Brady discussion you want to have, I think if you put them in the EXACT SAME system, with the exact same weapons, Elway outperforms him all day long...... easily. Tom Brady threw for FIFTY TOUCHDOWN PASSES in 2007. Matt Cassel then threw for only 21 touchdowns the very next season with the same supporting cast and the same 'system'. Awful logic. The fact that you called Tom Brady a 'system quarterback' shows that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Actually, I think you mis-understood the logic. Matt Cassell was in the Patriots system for roughly four years, whereas Mr. Brady is now heading into his ninth season with the team. Brady threw for 50 after being with the team eight years, learning the system and getting comfortable with the team. Matt Cassell hadn't started a game since high school, was thrust into the limelight in 2008 and ended up throwing ONLY 21... the kid hadn't had starting time or reps in over five years. Pretty impressive if I do say so... I'm not saying you can stick anyone in the system and have it work, but I'm saying don't discount his logic based on touchdown passes. That's ridiculous. I'm just saying I can easily see both sides of the argument. |
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wakeman
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Post by wakeman on Jun 21, 2009 12:54:47 GMT -5
Well, he was drafted to play in Major League baseball. That's something Brady isn't even capable of doing. I mean, if you want to bring up systems, NO ONE is a product of the system they run more than Brady. That's why it's hard to even have this discussion, there are too many "what ifs". I like Elway because I feel he was the most versatile QB. If it's an Elway-Brady discussion you want to have, I think if you put them in the EXACT SAME system, with the exact same weapons, Elway outperforms him all day long...... easily. Tom Brady threw for FIFTY TOUCHDOWN PASSES in 2007. Matt Cassel then threw for only 21 touchdowns the very next season with the same supporting cast and the same 'system'. Awful logic. The fact that you called Tom Brady a 'system quarterback' shows that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Yeah, I've got no idea what I'm talking about, that's it. Put Tom Brady in a place like Oakland and they're still the Raiders. There's a reason he backed up BRIAN GRIESE at Michigan. I'm SO  ING TIRED of Tom Brady being called the best QB ever. He's NOT EVEN CLOSE. |
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Post by BV on Jun 21, 2009 13:12:13 GMT -5
Brees. That is all.
*quickly leaves to avoid getting attacked by Brady lovers*
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 21, 2009 13:36:30 GMT -5
Yeah, I've got no idea what I'm talking about, that's it. Put Tom Brady in a place like Oakland and they're still the Raiders. There's a reason he backed up BRIAN GRIESE at Michigan. I'm SO ING TIRED of Tom Brady being called the best QB ever. He's NOT EVEN CLOSE. No one player makes a team go from trash to amazing. It doesn't happen. So yes, you're right about that. John Elway most certainly wouldn't have made the (current) Raiders better, either. In fact, John Elway flat out refused to play for the Colts because they weren't good and he knew he couldn't make them a winner. So not only could John Elway not do it, he flat-out refused to even try. Yeah, sounds like the best QB ever to me. Great leadership there. So, nice logic, buddy. Keep digging that hole. And Jerry Rice went to Mississippi Valley State... I guess he can't be the best receiver ever, because he wasn't good enough to go to a big name college. |
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Jun 21, 2009 13:43:31 GMT -5
Tom Brady threw for FIFTY TOUCHDOWN PASSES in 2007. Matt Cassel then threw for only 21 touchdowns the very next season with the same supporting cast and the same 'system'. Awful logic. The fact that you called Tom Brady a 'system quarterback' shows that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Yeah, I've got no idea what I'm talking about, that's it. Put Tom Brady in a place like Oakland and they're still the Raiders. There's a reason he backed up BRIAN GRIESE at Michigan. I'm SO ING TIRED of Tom Brady being called the best QB ever. He's NOT EVEN CLOSE. Because he wasnt a superstar 12 years ago in COLLEGE, means what he did in the NFL the past 8 years is moot? Wow. |
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 21, 2009 13:47:34 GMT -5
Because he wasnt a superstar 12 years ago in COLLEGE, means what he did in the NFL the past 8 years is moot? Wow. And to hell with Barry Sanders -- he couldn't beat out Thurman Thomas at Oklahoma State. Right?  |
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wakeman
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Post by wakeman on Jun 21, 2009 13:58:17 GMT -5
Hey, I'm not saying Brady isn't good, he obviously is. But he's NOT the best QB ever and to me, that argument is completely ridiculous. Will he be the best ever by the time he retires? Perhaps. But he's not right now.
And in my opinion, he is a system QB. Perhaps the biggest 'system QB' there ever was. There's no way he throws 50 TD passes ANYWHERE else in the NFL. The stars aligned that year for him and guess what? They still didn't win it all so it doesn't matter if he threw 100 TDs.
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Post by sonstuds on Jun 21, 2009 14:01:14 GMT -5
And in my opinion, he is a system QB. Perhaps the biggest 'system QB' there ever was. There's no way he throws 50 TD passes ANYWHERE else in the NFL. What makes you say that? Manning and Marino threw 49 and 48 respectively in different systems. If Brady was in Arizona with Fitz, Boldin, and Breaston I could see him being pretty unreal (again). |
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Jun 21, 2009 14:01:28 GMT -5
Hey, I'm not saying Brady isn't good, he obviously is. But he's NOT the best QB ever and to me, that argument is completely ridiculous. Will he be the best ever by the time he retires? Perhaps. But he's not right now. And in my opinion, he is a system QB. Perhaps the biggest 'system QB' there ever was. There's no way he throws 50 TD passes ANYWHERE else in the NFL. The stars aligned that year for him and guess what? They still didn't win it all so it doesn't matter if he threw 100 TDs. So if he was in Baltimore with Randy Moss, Wes Welker and the offensive line the Patriots had, you dont think he still throws for 50? Your logic is just going backwards man |
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 21, 2009 14:03:28 GMT -5
What more do you want Brady do, to be considered the best ever?
Again, I ask you, if Brady's such a "system quarterback," then why is it that Drew Bledsoe never lead the Patriots to a Superbowl win? Why didn't Matt Cassel throw for 50 touchdowns last year? Why didn't the Patriots even make the playoffs last year?
Your claim that Brady is a "system quarterback" is completely ridiculous.
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Post by shadyinc on Jun 21, 2009 14:53:26 GMT -5
Id have to say John Elway is the best qb of all time and yes its an amazing looking ring.
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wakeman
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Post by wakeman on Jun 21, 2009 15:20:47 GMT -5
Id have to say John Elway is the best qb of all time and yes its an amazing looking ring. This guy is right. And no, "Kliquid", that's not what I meant. I mean send Brady to a place like Baltimore with what they have in Baltimore. Does he throw 50? No, he doesn't even throw 30. Do you think he could throw 50 TDs in Chicago. NOT A CHANCE. In fact, if not for a freak injury to Drew Bledsoe, he'd still be on somebody's bench carrying a clipboard around. Instead, they stuck Brady in there and created a SYSTEM that works for him, one where they throw the ball 80% of the time. So of course he's gonna put up huge numbers, when in fact, Manning's 49 was more impressive than Brady's 50. Then, guys like you jump on his nuts like he's the second coming and say he's the "greatest QB of all time". THAT IS THE ARGUMENT THAT IS RIDICULOUS. |
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 21, 2009 15:47:48 GMT -5
I can smell your homerism from here. Good god.
- John Elway wouldn't throw for 50 touchdowns, or 30; in Baltimore or Chicago, either. So what is your point?
- This "system" you speak of didn't lead Drew Bledsoe to a Superbowl victory... Nor did it even bring Matt Cassel to the playoffs.
- How is Manning's 49 'more impressive' than Brady's 50? Smoke more crack. Seriously.
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Post by T R W on Jun 21, 2009 15:58:13 GMT -5
The only thing Elway might have been better than Brady at is scrambling. That's it.
I'm not ready to say that Brady is the best of all-time yet, however, he is already better than Elway.
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wakeman
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Post by wakeman on Jun 21, 2009 16:04:39 GMT -5
Okay Kliquid, you win. You're obviously the master of all things here and "know what you're talking about". So I'll eat my argument and stop the talk of John Elway, since an active player is already the best quarterback that ever played. You win, dude.
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Post by Kody on Jun 21, 2009 17:38:05 GMT -5
wakeman, you're ing intellectually- disabled, aren't you? |
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wakeman
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Post by wakeman on Jun 21, 2009 17:44:25 GMT -5
Why am I intellectually- disabled? Because I have an opinion? I don't care what evidence anyone puts in front of me about Tom Brady, not his 50 TD passes, not his Super Bowl rings, nothing he's done will make me say he's better than Elway. Not a chance. So I don't care if every single person on this forum gangs up on me and says "Brady is better than Elway", because I'll still say he's not.
When it all comes down to it, there's no scientific proof that any player is the best QB ever. It's one of the biggest debates in pro sports and has been for a long time, probably always will, just because of all the variables that go into it. I have a really good friend that will argue to the death that Dan Marino was the best QB to ever play. I disagree and match Elway up against him, but I don't berate him, call him names or try to make him seem lower than me because after all, it's just his opinion against mine.
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 22, 2009 0:22:36 GMT -5
That's right, keep suckin on that Denver Bronco teat. The reason you think John Elway is the best QB ever is because you're from Colorado.
Look, no one is trying to argue that John Elway isn't good. He's one of the best ever. But the first post you made when you came into this thread is the reason that people are berating you.
He's only mentioned once because, quite frankly, no one else thinks he's the best ever.
When it comes down to it, John Elway isn't the best ever at anything... In terms of clutch play-making, I'd rather have Joe Montana. When it comes to career statistics, Marino threw for 10,000 more yards, 120 more touchdowns, and just 26 more interceptions -- his career QB rating was also almost 7 points higher... Peyton Manning's career statistics will almost certainly surpass Elway's, as well... In terms of Superbowl victories, Tom Brady and Joe Montana, Troy Aikman (and even Terry Bradshaw) are ahead of him...
I just don't understand why Elway is such an obvious choice for you. He's not the best ever at anything. Not any statistic, not wins, not Superbowl victories, not Pro Bowl appearances, not completion percentage, not QB rating... He's GOOD at everything, but not the best at anything. And I feel like Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady are all overall better.
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wakeman
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Post by wakeman on Jun 22, 2009 20:28:57 GMT -5
That's right, keep suckin on that Denver Bronco teat. The reason you think John Elway is the best QB ever is because you're from Colorado. Look, no one is trying to argue that John Elway isn't good. He's one of the best ever. But the first post you made when you came into this thread is the reason that people are berating you. He's only mentioned once because, quite frankly, no one else thinks he's the best ever. When it comes down to it, John Elway isn't the best ever at anything... In terms of clutch play-making, I'd rather have Joe Montana. When it comes to career statistics, Marino threw for 10,000 more yards, 120 more touchdowns, and just 26 more interceptions -- his career QB rating was also almost 7 points higher... Peyton Manning's career statistics will almost certainly surpass Elway's, as well... In terms of Superbowl victories, Tom Brady and Joe Montana, Troy Aikman (and even Terry Bradshaw) are ahead of him... I just don't understand why Elway is such an obvious choice for you. He's not the best ever at anything. Not any statistic, not wins, not Superbowl victories, not Pro Bowl appearances, not completion percentage, not QB rating... He's GOOD at everything, but not the best at anything. And I feel like Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady are all overall better. What QB has the most 4th quarter comebacks? That would be John Elway with 48. I guess that makes him more clutch than Montana, doesn't it. I guess that makes him the "BEST" at that. Maybe on THIS FORUM, no one thinks Elway was the best, but plenty of other forums I talk on several people do. Sean Salisbury used to mention it every chance he got when he worked for ESPN. Like I said, it's the never ending debate. And Elway was way better than "good", he was great. If you think he was just "good", that's worse than any argument I've made. I'll give credit where credit is due, Brady is a very good QB. I just won't sit here and say that a guy who is still playing is better than Elway after the terrific career Elway had. Bring up the Super Bowls he won all you want and give credit to everyone but him, but keep in mind he pretty much single handedly took them to 3 others. |
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