KRAYZIE BONE
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Post by KRAYZIE BONE on Jul 19, 2009 23:11:42 GMT -5
sting had just as much to do with the success of the nwo as it did with his success. every villian needs a hero to go against. to say he didnt have anything to do with it is ignorance. it really is. and sting was as over as HBK ever was prior to the nwo in america and japan as well. wasnt he PWI's wrestler of the year multiple times pre-nwo? wcw as a company might not has been as well off but he was as over as hogan and warrior with the fans.
and a guy who poses nude in a known gay man's magazine and wears leather chaps and village people cop hats is VERY homo.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jul 19, 2009 23:13:40 GMT -5
sting. case in point - during his whole initial crow run, he didnt wrestle one match for over a year and was still more over then HBK was at the time, and HBK was the wwf's world champion. that is a fact. wwf damn near went under while HBK was champ, and while its not entirely his fault, he was their "top dawg". I will forever remember HBK for his homo-esque character and not really his wrestling. You are right that it wasn't his fault. He saved the WWF from it's mass exodus of talent from '92-'96. HBK not only kept the WWF afloat in tough times, he broke ground for the Attitude Era.
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KRAYZIE BONE
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Post by KRAYZIE BONE on Jul 19, 2009 23:15:24 GMT -5
in some regions, HBK wasnt even over. wasnt he booed, while sid was cheered at the 96 SS? I may be wrong about that but im pretty sure im correct. that never happened with sting. he was over everywhere in the usa and he was over in japan, as I stated earlier.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jul 19, 2009 23:17:17 GMT -5
Krayzie you also have to take into account that HBK was a champion during the nWo boom of WCW, and anybody as a champion during that time would have failed. The success of the nWo is what lead to Stings success and the reason why fans turned into Nitro. Also a fact for all the people out there who think that Sting is so great because of his nWo boom as the Crow character. During Sting's runs prior to the nWo as champion he was a champion who was bankrupting his company. THAT IS FACT! WCW didn't make any money til Hall and Nash came over and the nWo started with Hogan in it's lead. So that point is mute. Nor did HBK have a homo-esque charater. I guess being known as the Heartbreak Kid with a manager like Sherri makes him gay. HAHA Did you even bother to watch his wrestling matches??? That is the generalization of many "ladies man" characters in wrestling over the years. Spend too much time on one's looks = homosexuality. It's a bizarre thought process but it's also made from some good storylines and heat.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jul 19, 2009 23:19:53 GMT -5
in some regions, HBK wasnt even over. wasnt he booed, while sid was cheered at the 96 SS? I may be wrong about that but im pretty sure im correct. that never happened with sting. he was over everywhere in the usa and he was over in japan, as I stated earlier. He was booed, that is correct, but he was in MSG where many a face champion, including Bruno, Hulk, & Backlund, got booed at one time or another.
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KRAYZIE BONE
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Post by KRAYZIE BONE on Jul 19, 2009 23:23:29 GMT -5
I remember sid being way more over then HBK (and even hogan in 92). its safe to say (for me at least) that HBK wasnt even the most over person in the company while he was the champ, and thats one of the reasons the compnay suffered while he was "the man".
starrcade 97 was a bigger event then HBK was/will ever be in. sting had just as much to do with that as hogan did. anyone who says otherwise is simply wrong. like I said earlier, sting didnt even have to wrestle and he was one of the most over wrestlers in the world. thats how strong his character was.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jul 19, 2009 23:32:17 GMT -5
I remember sid being way more over then HBK (and even hogan in 92). its safe to say (for me at least) that HBK wasnt even the most over person in the company while he was the champ, and thats one of the reasons the compnay suffered while he was "the man". starrcade 97 was a bigger event then HBK was/will ever be in. sting had just as much to do with that as hogan did. anyone who says otherwise is simply wrong. like I said earlier, sting didnt even have to wrestle and he was one of the most over wrestlers in the world. thats how strong his character was. Sid was only over (as a face anyway) for a brief time in '91. He was booed against Hogan at WM 8, booed in his feud with Diesel in '95, and booed in Texas against HBK at the RR in '97. Sid was terrible and the fans knew it. The only reason he got cheered over HBK at SS '96 was because MSG fans like to be contrary. Starrcade '97 was not a memorable PPV. Hogan and Sting's match on Nitro in Chicago ( around 1996) was better. Also, Sting didn't have the universal support that you imply. I remember the crowd popping for Vader when he powerbombed Sting to win the title. For a lot of hardcore/internet fans, Sting was too much of a WWF-like cartoon personality.
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KRAYZIE BONE
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Post by KRAYZIE BONE on Jul 19, 2009 23:54:34 GMT -5
I remember sid being way more over then HBK (and even hogan in 92). its safe to say (for me at least) that HBK wasnt even the most over person in the company while he was the champ, and thats one of the reasons the compnay suffered while he was "the man". starrcade 97 was a bigger event then HBK was/will ever be in. sting had just as much to do with that as hogan did. anyone who says otherwise is simply wrong. like I said earlier, sting didnt even have to wrestle and he was one of the most over wrestlers in the world. thats how strong his character was. Sid was only over (as a face anyway) for a brief time in '91. He was booed against Hogan at WM 8, booed in his feud with Diesel in '95, and booed in Texas against HBK at the RR in '97. Sid was terrible and the fans knew it. The only reason he got cheered over HBK at SS '96 was because MSG fans like to be contrary. Starrcade '97 was not a memorable PPV. Hogan and Sting's match on Nitro in Chicago ( around 1996) was better. Also, Sting didn't have the universal support that you imply. I remember the crowd popping for Vader when he powerbombed Sting to win the title. For a lot of hardcore/internet fans, Sting was too much of a WWF-like cartoon personality. sid was over EVRYWHERE he went. he should have got the strap in 92. but the wwf messed that up. he would have got the (wcw) strap in 93 if it wasnt for the incident with arn, and he was way more over then HBK in 96, which is why he got the strap there too (RR 97 was in san antonio, that doesnt count for obvious reasons). he was over in ecw and then again in wcw. regardless of how the event turned out, starrcade 97 was still bigger then anything HBK ever did. I believe PWI called it "the match of the century" or something. Both were in their prime at about the same time. sting was simply doing bigger business in more memorable story lines. no one can tell me otherwise because I remember it first hand. sting had just as much to do with the success of the nwo as it did with his success. every villian needs a hero to go against. to say he didnt have anything to do with it is ignorance. it really is. and sting was as over as HBK ever was prior to the nwo in america and japan as well. wasnt he PWI's wrestler of the year multiple times pre-nwo? wcw as a company might not has been as well off but he was as over as hogan and warrior with the fans. and a guy who poses nude in a known gay man's magazine and wears leather chaps and village people cop hats is VERY homo. I disagree with you. People were tuning into Nitro to see what the nWo would do, and which stars were jumping to WCW. Sting was a back up character. Also not every villian needs a good hero to go up against for them to be successful. And vice versa. Hogan proved that in the 80's in the WWF that you only needed to put him in a match with anybody and it would be successful. People came to see Hogan and they didn't care who his opponent was. Which makes your point mute. And again Sting was over in a smaller pond. He didn't have to compete in a big pool. He was a big fish in a small pond. If you want to talk about viewers more people would have known who HBK was because MORE people WATCHED WWE over WCW. Not to mention Sting and HBK have the same number of PWI Wrestler's of the year. But PWI has given HBK Best Match of the Year from 2004 to 2008 and will likely receive it for '09. So you think all hair bands and people who wore leather are gay too??? You want to talk about ignorance!?!? Leather was part of the fashion from the 80's along with zebra print. Not to mention your logic is skewed when your main argument is that HBK posed in a girly magazine. If you weren't so ignorant maybe you would have also bothered looking up the facts to see HBK didn't have any idea Playgirl was read by gay men. WHICH DIDN'T HAPPEN TIL A YEARS AFTER HIS GIMMICK WAS INVENTED!!! And dude stop being a bigot with your use of hate words. how come no other story line involing the nwo was as big as the one with sting? savage? nope. flair? nope. giant? nope. because sting's gimmick was just as big as the nwo. there is no arguing that. I am baffled that youre even attempting to do it. who cares if more people watched wwf then they did wcw? that does NOT mean hbk was more over then sting. lol. show me a video of sting getting booed in any market. show me a video of HBK being over in japan. you do realize that its COMMON belief that HBK was seen as a homo ... right? everything about him was homo from the way he dressed to the way he walked. I think HHH even made a joke about it on a dvd. Its NOT just me who thinks it. lol. open your eyes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2009 23:57:21 GMT -5
You couldn't even name any of his 5 star matches nor could you state what his legacy is. Nor could you tell me what Sting ever did for the industry. ^ You prove again that your completely clueless. The success of the nWo is what lead to Stings success and the reason why fans turned into Nitro. ^ LOL.
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KRAYZIE BONE
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Post by KRAYZIE BONE on Jul 20, 2009 0:10:01 GMT -5
^^ funniest part is that sting was HUGE before the nwo.
what dude is saying is not even possible. =/
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2009 0:23:57 GMT -5
There is PLENTY TO ARGUE that Sting wasn't as big as the nWo and what baffles me is that you are EVEN trying to put Sting into the SAME CATAGORY as the nWo. HAHAHAHA Anyone who thinks that is down and out INSANE!!! Answer me this... Why did people switch over to WCW to watch it? The answer is nWo. Anyone who denys that is full of it, and nothing but a mark for Sting. Do you really think the nWo would have been as big had Sting been in the Hogan role??? NOPE!!! Why!?!? Because Hogan changed to a heel. STING WASN'T EVEN ON THE LEVEL OF POPULARITY HOGAN HAD during his nWo run. The nWo merchandise FAR PASSED SOLD out Sting's. And ppv's were up when Hogan was main eventing during his run as the leader. Why am I convinced your a 12 year old? And show me a video or a thread where people even talk about Sting's matches or what he did for the industry. Ric Flair has said in many occasions that Sting was his greatest opponent in NWA/WCW.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2009 0:32:10 GMT -5
WHAT'S THE FUNNIEST PART IS IF STING WAS SO HUGE and BIG BEFORE HAND. HOW COME HE WASN'T ABLE TO SELL OUT ARENA'S BY HIMSELF OR HAVE 5 STAR MATCHES BY HIMSELF!?!?
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KRAYZIE BONE
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Post by KRAYZIE BONE on Jul 20, 2009 0:37:32 GMT -5
how come no other story line involing the nwo was as big as the one with sting? savage? nope. flair? nope. giant? nope. because sting's gimmick was just as big as the nwo. there is no arguing that. I am baffled that youre even attempting to do it. who cares if more people watched wwf then they did wcw? that does NOT mean hbk was more over then sting. lol. show me a video of sting getting booed in any market. show me a video of HBK being over in japan. you do realize that its COMMON belief that HBK was seen as a homo ... right? everything about him was homo from the way he dressed to the way he walked. I think HHH even made a joke about it on a dvd. Its NOT just me who thinks it. lol. open your eyes. There is PLENTY TO ARGUE that Sting wasn't as big as the nWo and what baffles me is that you are EVEN trying to put Sting into the SAME CATAGORY as the nWo. HAHAHAHA Anyone who thinks that is down and out INSANE!!! Answer me this... Why did people switch over to WCW to watch it? The answer is nWo. Anyone who denys that is full of it, and nothing but a mark for Sting. Do you really think the nWo would have been as big had Sting been in the Hogan role??? NOPE!!! Why!?!? Because Hogan changed to a heel. STING WASN'T EVEN ON THE LEVEL OF POPULARITY HOGAN HAD during his nWo run. The nWo merchandise FAR PASSED SOLD out Sting's. And ppv's were up when Hogan was main eventing during his run as the leader. Show me a video where Sting was a champion during a non defeceit time for WCW PRIOR to the nWo. And show me a video or a thread where people even talk about Sting's matches or what he did for the industry. Because you won't find one. HAHAHA Besides Venom already answered those questions to you in previous posts. And WHO CARES IF MORE PEOPLE WATCHED THE WWE!?!? Well I dunno but your whole argument goes to the sink since you don't want to bother to use rationality in this debate. I'll sum it up for you like this. More people watch WWE over WCW. Therefore WWE stars would be more well known then WCW stars out of sheer viewership. It's math. Especially when you like to talk about how popular Sting was in the nWo days. You don't want to talk about when he was the champion of a company that couldn't even do house shows because their guys couldn't sell out arena's. HAHAHA Not to mention HBK never had to go to Japan because he was over enough and making money as a American wrestler. Sting had to work Japan because he couldn't afford not too. And I've seen enough matches where Sting gets very little to no crowd reaction AT ALL! Can't say that about HBK post Champion. Most people DON'T EVEN KNOW HE WRESTLES ANYMORE SINCE MOST DON'T EVEN WATCH TNA! That's not common knowledge and only shared upon by bigot views. Again your arguments would put most of the 80's hair bands and people in the 80's who wore that type of stuff as being gay. Triple H did a joke about that to show how STUPID some people really are. And if you opened your eyes you would see that only bigots think that way too. LMFAO ...waits for you to tell me any other nwo storyline as big as the one with sting. /still waiting /still waiting if the nwo made sting popular, how is it that he was a world champion while HBK was still a rocker and the nwo wasnt even a thought yet? explain that to me. you mention wcw losing money with sting as champ .... wwf was losing money with HBK as champ. you lose. If less people knew who sting was ... how was he able to be voted wrestler of year just as many times as HBK was by a non affiliated magazine? you lose. again. you really are a terrible debator. lol. is HHH a bigot too since hes made jokes about HBK coming off as a homo? first you tell me no one think like I do, but then you say HHH had to make his statement to make us all look stupid. but I thought no one thought it? you lose again. no one can tell me HBK has had a better career then sting when half of HBK's career was spent on the midcard. sting was a maineventer for the majority of his career who did bigger business then HBK ever did.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jul 20, 2009 0:48:25 GMT -5
Sid was only over (as a face anyway) for a brief time in '91. He was booed against Hogan at WM 8, booed in his feud with Diesel in '95, and booed in Texas against HBK at the RR in '97. Sid was terrible and the fans knew it. The only reason he got cheered over HBK at SS '96 was because MSG fans like to be contrary. Starrcade '97 was not a memorable PPV. Hogan and Sting's match on Nitro in Chicago ( around 1996) was better. Also, Sting didn't have the universal support that you imply. I remember the crowd popping for Vader when he powerbombed Sting to win the title. For a lot of hardcore/internet fans, Sting was too much of a WWF-like cartoon personality. sid was over EVRYWHERE he went. he should have got the strap in 92. but the wwf messed that up. he would have got the (wcw) strap in 93 if it wasnt for the incident with arn, and he was way more over then HBK in 96, which is why he got the strap there too (RR 97 was in san antonio, that doesnt count for obvious reasons). he was over in ecw and then again in wcw. regardless of how the event turned out, starrcade 97 was still bigger then anything HBK ever did. I believe PWI called it "the match of the century" or something. . Sid was never, ever the "most over" babyface in any company. He was booked as a tweener type champ at the end of '96 and when he faced The Undertaker at WM 13, he was booed again, just like when he was booed against Hulk at WM 8. He was, for a brief time in 1995, the #1 heel in the WWF, but he was never a company centerpiece like HBK. He was a terrible in-ring worker and his blunders on the mic are legendary. As for Starrcade '97, Hogan-Sting is not comparable in any fashion to HBK-Undertaker HIAC, HBK-Taker WM 25, HBK-Hitman Iron Man match, HBK-Razor WM 10 etc.. Those are right off the top of my head. HBK probably has 25 matches more memorable than Starrcade '97. For that matter, Hogan and Sting each have multiple matches that were better than Starrcade '97. The ending was screwed up and the work before that was so-so at best. It was only 13 or 14 minutes long, if I remember correctly. Hogan was way past his prime and Sting was slightly past his prime. That match was as generic as a world title match gets. It was not special in any way.
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KRAYZIE BONE
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Post by KRAYZIE BONE on Jul 20, 2009 0:59:24 GMT -5
sid was over EVRYWHERE he went. he should have got the strap in 92. but the wwf messed that up. he would have got the (wcw) strap in 93 if it wasnt for the incident with arn, and he was way more over then HBK in 96, which is why he got the strap there too (RR 97 was in san antonio, that doesnt count for obvious reasons). he was over in ecw and then again in wcw. regardless of how the event turned out, starrcade 97 was still bigger then anything HBK ever did. I believe PWI called it "the match of the century" or something. . Sid was never, ever the "most over" babyface in any company. He was booked as a tweener type champ at the end of '96 and when he faced The Undertaker at WM 13, he was booed again, just like when he was booed against Hulk at WM 8. He was, for a brief time in 1995, the #1 heel in the WWF, but he was never a company centerpiece like HBK. He was a terrible in-ring worker and his blunders on the mic are legendary. As for Starrcade '97, Hogan-Sting is not comparable in any fashion to HBK-Undertaker HIAC, HBK-Taker WM 25, HBK-Hitman Iron Man match, HBK-Razor WM 10 etc.. Those are right off the top of my head. HBK probably has 25 matches more memorable than Starrcade '97. For that matter, Hogan and Sting each have multiple matches that were better than Starrcade '97. The ending was screwed up and the work before that was so-so at best. It was only 13 or 14 minutes long, if I remember correctly. Hogan was way past his prime and Sting was slightly past his prime. That match was as generic as a world title match gets. It was not special in any way. to say sid wasnt over is rediculous. he was over everywhere, and was given the title everywhere (except ecw, even though he was over there too) multiple times. NONE of those matches were as big as starrcade 97. they may have been better matches, but none of them (and NOTHING HBK EVER did) was as hyped up or as big an event as starrcade 97 was. you keep saying it wasnt a good match. who cares? thats not what im saying. I cant think of ANY match since it that had such a big build up and hype and gathered such a major buzz in the industry. what im saying is, nothing HBK ever did was as big as what hogan and sting did. HBK was doing dx and the "boyhood dream" bit, wrestling full time, and was pretty much floundering as champ - while alls sting had to was come down from the rafters and be on TV for 10 minutes every week to be the hottest thing in wrestling. No storyline or no form of HBK's character was, nor ever will be, comparable to sting's character from mid 96 - the end of 97.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2009 0:59:52 GMT -5
rfap, for the last time: What does the fact that WWE has more ratings and money have to do with Sting's wrestling skills and work ethic?
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KRAYZIE BONE
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Post by KRAYZIE BONE on Jul 20, 2009 1:02:24 GMT -5
...waits for you to tell me any other nwo storyline as big as the one with sting. /still waiting /still waiting I'm still waiting for you to admit that the nWo outsold all other WCW revenue. Last time I checked Sting was never in a company that made any money prior to the nWo. So I guess you have to admit that you are wrong and that the nWo did make him popular as people tuned into his matches unlike prior to the nWo. And again Sting was a big fish in a small pond. If Sting was so GREAT AND POPULAR how come he never could pull WCW out of the financial hole they were in and could do house shows and ACTUALLY MAKE MONEY??? Explain that one pal! A champion of second rate promotions! Hate to burst your bubble bubble champ but I can tell you HBK had a better career USING FACTS!!! FACT #1 Sting could NEVER PULL THE NWA/WCW OUT OF FINANCIAL DOOM til the nWo came while a wrestler and a champion. #2 Sting's only 5 star matches were in tag team matches. HBK had his in solo matches. #3 HBK has done more for wrestling then Sting ever has. HBK opened the doors for WWE stars to go onto to be WWE champions. #4 HBK has had more Match of the Years compared to Sting Sting was also a main eventer of a company that never made any money and hasn't improved TNA ratings by any leap and bounds. And again if Sting was such a money maker how come WCW couldn't do house shows or wasn't in the green when he was a champion??? Again for the second time he was doing a joke about how STUPID SOME PEOPLE WERE THAT ACTUALLY THOUGHT THAT!!! tell me why wwf was losing money with HBK as champ, and maybe ill tell you why wcw was losing money in the early 90s. I see you still cant give any story line involving the nwo that was as big as the one with sting. good job buddy. 5 star matches? who are you? youre no one important and your opinion of what a 5 star match means as much as ... well, as much as nothing. thats not fact smart guy, its opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2009 1:16:51 GMT -5
That's pretty easy my friend. Because HBK was a champion during the time the business was switching and the HUGE boom of the nWo. You could have put anybody as champion then and they would have lost out to the nWo. The invasion angle was HUGE!!! Not to mention HBK was bringing in higher ratings and ppv's til Hall and Nash jumped. Now you can asnwer my question. I can still see that you won't open up to the fact that the nWo was bigger then Sting! And the REASON why viewers TURNED IN!!! Good job buddy. Meltzer is where I got my info from for 5 star matches. And I'm a lot more important then you are. So again that is FACT NOT OPINION! ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU YOURSELF USED PWI!!! HAHAHA Guess I am the smart one after all! FACTS RULE!!!
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KRAYZIE BONE
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Post by KRAYZIE BONE on Jul 20, 2009 1:17:43 GMT -5
rfap, for the last time: What does the fact that WWE has more ratings and money have to do with Sting's wrestling skills and work ethic? It has to do with how many people watched him vs Sting. More people watched WWE pre nWo and therefore would have known HBK more then Sting. Not to mention HBK had better werestling skills and work ethic. tell me why wwf was losing money with HBK as champ, and maybe ill tell you why wcw was losing money in the early 90s. I see you still cant give any story line involving the nwo that was as big as the one with sting. good job buddy. 5 star matches? who are you? youre no one important and your opinion of what a 5 star match means as much as ... well, as much as nothing. thats not fact smart guy, its opinion. That's pretty easy my friend. Because HBK was a champion during the time the business was switching and the HUGE boom of the nWo. You could have put anybody as champion then and they would have lost out to the nWo. The invasion angle was HUGE!!! Not to mention HBK was bringing in higher ratings and ppv's til Hall and Nash jumped. Now you can asnwer my question. I can still see that you won't open up to the fact that the nWo was bigger then Sting! And the REASON why viewers TURNED IN!!! Good job buddy. Meltzer is where I got my info from for 5 star matches. And I'm a lot more important then you are. So again that is FACT NOT OPINION! ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU YOURSELF USED PWI!!! HAHAHA Guess I am the smart one after all! FACTS RULE!!! PWI was (at that time, i dont follow wrestling now) an APTER magazine. and those awards were voted by the FANS (i thought they didnt know who sting was?) what does meltzer have to do with anything? and his opinion of a 5 star match doesnt mean a damn thing either. he can lick my left nut for all I care. HBK's run was one of the worst in terms of revenue the wwf ever had and your reason is because of the nwo (aka because of hogan). well, the reason why wcw wasnt as big as wwf in the early 90s was because of hogan (gee, what a coincidence). fact - HBK lost wwf alot of money fact - sting made wcw alot of money fact - sting won multiple world titles before HBK even won an intercontinental title fact - you lose. =)
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jul 20, 2009 1:35:04 GMT -5
to say sid wasnt over is rediculous. he was over everywhere, and was given the title everywhere (except ecw, even though he was over there too) multiple times. NONE of those matches were as big as starrcade 97. they may have been better matches, but none of them (and NOTHING HBK EVER did) was as hyped up or as big an event as starrcade 97 was. you keep saying it wasnt a good match. who cares? thats not what im saying. I cant think of ANY match since it that had such a big build up and hype and gathered such a major buzz in the industry. what im saying is, nothing HBK ever did was as big as what hogan and sting did. HBK was doing dx and the "boyhood dream" bit, wrestling full time, and was pretty much floundering as champ - while alls sting had to was come down from the rafters and be on TV for 10 minutes every week to be the hottest thing in wrestling. No storyline or no form of HBK's character was, nor ever will be, comparable to sting's character from mid 96 - the end of 97. Sid was given short, transitional reigns. He was never booked as the #1 guy in any company so that excludes him from HBK's class. As for Hogan and Sting, yes it was heavily hyped, and it failed to deliver just as most of WCW's product in the final years. It hasn't held up as an important match in a historical sense. Goldberg-Hogan, about 6 months later, was a more memorable match. And Starrcade '97 will never, ever, ever compare to the innovation of the WM 10 Ladder match, or HIAC 1 at Taker-HBK from WM 25. Those are true landmark matches because they hold up as amazing even without the preceding storyline.
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