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Post by spreedom8 on May 11, 2010 9:40:30 GMT -5
Interesting article on ESPN; Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas It's not fair. It's hard to imagine what he could have done better, but with how many different big-budget teammates, and with how many different coaches, will this man lead teams that shock with playoff underperformance? Even when Dallas made it to the Finals -- a high point for most teams -- Nowitzki's team somehow managed to lose four straight to squander a 2-0 lead and become a tale of sadness. Dallas has now also lost in the opening round as the West's first (2007) and second (2010) seeds. Whether that says something about Nowitzki's game, leadership or fortunes, I don't know, but it's hard not to think these losses could come to define him. Gotta love the comment pointing out how Dirk has lost in the first round as the first and second seed, under multiple coaches and team mates. As for what he could have done better? Oh I don't know.... rebound? I just laugh at how ridiculous it is to blame Dirk so harshly for his teams' failures considering the incredibly obvious shortcomings of his recent supporting cast... shooting guards that can't shoot, centers that can't stay on the floor, terrible permieter defenders, and absolutely zero consistent playoff scorers. The best teammate he's had thoughout his tenure in Dallas has been Jason Terry, who is so one-dimensional offensively and awful defensively, you can't even keep him on the floor. Dirk has been one of the 5 best players in the league over the past decade and is still easily one of the top 7-10 currently, and his numbers ALWAYS improve during the playoffs (and even more as he reaches later rounds)... But I guess he's a horrible rebounder (led the team this postseason) and poor defender (a total of zero chasedown blocks). Man, who is going to pay this one-dimensional bum a cent this offseason? Oh yeah.... that's right. He's 31 and still going to get a max contract if he chases every penny he can get. But odds are he'll take somewhat of a discount and stay in Dallas. |
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on May 11, 2010 10:41:00 GMT -5
You can blame Dirk to a point, I dont agree with him being on the list, or a few others on that list either, but as the face of the franchise Dirk deserves some blame....not "Most disappointing players of the playoffs" list type blame
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Post by spreedom8 on May 11, 2010 11:44:14 GMT -5
I agree that the fact that Dirk hasn't won a championship since 2006 is going to be a stain on his resume when he retires... but that won't prevent him from being considered one of the very best of all-time, nor should it mean that he can't be in the conversation as one of today's elite players. But just about every player above him on that all-time list had better teammates... and to call him one of the most disappointing playoff performers ever when he has some of the best, most consistent numbers ever is just ridiculous and such a stretch it's not even worth making, considering he's accomplished as much as any other player in the NBA that hasn't won a championship and has done so as undeniably the best player on his team by a huge margin...
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Post by user9327 on May 11, 2010 13:19:01 GMT -5
I was gonna do a long write up but  it here is all that really matters... Game 4, the biggest game of the series besides the elimination game that he crapped the bed in as well (4 defensive rebounds, yes 4 defensive rebounds)... 4-10 from the field for 17 points (Franchise), 11 rebounds.... in game 4, biggest game of the series. And you think he deserves a max contract? Maybe Dallas is crazy enough to keep doing it. Those games, game 4 and the elimination game... if it wasn't the point total it was the rebounding total. He's 7 foot and supposed to be the Franchise Power Forward. Why on Earth do they list him at PF then? Just make him a SF and get Haywood a real PF... or stop blaming Haywood, because Haywood was having a progressive year for his career until he went to Dallas and had to go side by side with Dirk... the defensive post liability and inconsistent rebounder. Instead of giving Dirk all the praise for having bad team mates and blaming guys like Haywood, why don't you tell it like it is.... his team mate's have no idea what to expect out of him on defense and the boards every night. |
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Post by spreedom8 on May 11, 2010 13:26:26 GMT -5
Dirk is the Franchise, who doesn't rebound or contribute besides scoring (when it counts)... and he's had the number 1 and 2 seed and been eliminated in the first round... say what you want about his accomplishments but that's just plain pathetic. Say whatever you want, glorify him however you want... his rebounding totals in that series were pathetic overall and his numbers got worse in the playoffs. Plain and simple, there's your Franchise... go look at his inconsistency and lower production in that series.In the elimination game he had 4 defensive rebounds... OK? 4 defensive rebounds. And you think he's getting a max contract from anybody else but Dallas? We will see, won't we? He's a great player but he's not a Franchise. Simple as that. and yea, he was disappointing as hell in the playoffs this year, I expected a lot more out of him and Dallas in general. Just look at some of those games he played that changed the series. Not to mention the guy is a shooter first and he made a total of 4 three pointers in the series... GREAT. the worst part is, they lost to the Spurs, right? The Spurs just got swept in the next round. Dirk, in the least, should have been able to have a better showing. The Spurs got swept by the best team in the NBA since January. A team that they matched up horribly against and they had an injured Tony Parker against. And that Tim Duncan had "5 defensive rebounds... OK? 5 defensive rebounds" in an elimination game against the Suns but you aren't ripping him apart. And your "his numbers went down in the playoffs" argument is absolutely intellectually- disabled (not completely accurate and completely irrelevant), considering his scoring increased from 25 to 26.7 PPG from the regular season; his assists also increased, as did his FG%, 3PT%, AND FT%. But he did average .2 rebounds fewer than his regular season average, and surely that 1 extra rebound that he didn't get cost the Mavs the entire series. And that goes without even mentioning that Jason Kidd, Jason Terry, Brendan Haywood and Shawn Marion all played the worst playoff series of their careers. I understand that I rip your boy LeBron and that makes you counter by ripping my boy Nowitzki... but to pin the Mavs' loss in round one solely on Dirk and to go out of your way to post a lame article calling him a "playoff disappointment" is a waste of time and energy. But hey, if LeBron and the Cavs lose to Boston (who are currently playing at the same level SA did in round one), it's because he doesn't have any help, right? |
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Post by spreedom8 on May 11, 2010 13:30:17 GMT -5
Oh, you deleted your other post. I don't feel like responding to your newer arguments so I'll just leave it at that -- last word is yours because arguing with you is too exhausting and I'd rather enjoy the rest of the playoffs.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on May 11, 2010 13:36:31 GMT -5
I agree that the fact that Dirk hasn't won a championship since 2006 is going to be a stain on his resume when he retires... but that won't prevent him from being considered one of the very best of all-time, nor should it mean that he can't be in the conversation as one of today's elite players. But just about every player above him on that all-time list had better teammates... and to call him one of the most disappointing playoff performers ever when he has some of the best, most consistent numbers ever is just ridiculous and such a stretch it's not even worth making, considering he's accomplished as much as any other player in the NBA that hasn't won a championship and has done so as undeniably the best player on his team by a huge margin... 2 points and I will step out of this battle: 1. Dirk is nowhere near the "Very best of all time", and he wont be. Even with a title, sorry. 2. The list was biggest playoff disappointments THIS YEAR, not ever. In 2010, he could be argued to be on that list, thats all. 3. Your homer is showing  |
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Post by user9327 on May 11, 2010 13:39:25 GMT -5
come on man.... you're calling me intellectually- disabled then making assumptions that I'm ripping Dirk because I care that you rip LeBron by saying atrocious things like Wilson Chandler and Kevin Love (lol) are better defenders than him. I could give a crap if you want to embarrass yourself by saying things like that and are overrating Dirk Nowitski as a Franchise player.
All I'm saying is Dirk isn't a Franchise player and his numbers and career prove it... and apparently this gets you emotional. If you're happy with Dirk's playoff performances and results in his career, then that's you. I think it's pathetic for a Franchise player... if you need to use words like intellectually- disabled and post 3 times to keep contesting me, THAT'S YOU.
Way to ruin the thread again and get all personal and emotional... just the other day when we talked about LeBron, you didn't see me doing this? Did you? I used one post, right? Yet you need multiple to make your case for Dirk and then use words like intellectually- disabled person and make things all personal. Wow, you sure showed me, about Dirk Nowitski.
All you've done is prove you can use the word intellectually- disabled to get your point across.
Meanwhile, Dirk is sitting at home right now while the big boys play, again, and again, and again, on a max contract.
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Post by user9327 on May 11, 2010 13:42:16 GMT -5
Oh and the media agrees with me about LeBron's lack of help and so do the general masses.
The media also agrees with me about Dirk.
As for Wilson Chandler and Kevin Love being a better defender than LeBron James.... did their teams even combine to win as many games as the Cavs.
Oh man this is too easy.
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Post by Quanthor on May 11, 2010 14:29:57 GMT -5
Dirk, again?
All I know is that he's been on some of the chokiest teams in the history of all chokers that have played the game.
Losing to an 8th seed, losing to a 7th seed, losing in the Finals being up 2-0 and you can even go back to 2003 where the Mavs had a 3-0 lead over Portland and became only the 2nd team in history to allow a team to tie the series and they damn near lost that final game too.
That to me is going to be a bigger mark on his career than not winning a title. You can blame the supporting cast all you want, but at the end of the day the star shoulders most of the responsibilty for the team's failures.
I don't care that he's one of the best shooters of all time because at the end of the day he's still a shooter and shooters are prone to having bad games. In the NBA playoffs, you can't afford to have bad games and Dirk has many disappointing performances that has lead to losses for the Mavericks.
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Post by BV on May 11, 2010 15:23:15 GMT -5
Can we stop talking about Dallas? Please? They always manage to suck balls in the playoffs, every year.
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Post by T R W on May 11, 2010 16:18:09 GMT -5
I officially declare myself Switzerland on the Dirk debate. I like him a lot, and he is a guy I would want on my team in a lot of situations. But I don't see him succeeding in winning a championship until he gets in a situation like Drexler with Olajuwon, or Garnet with Pierce and Allen. Can we stop talking about Dallas? Please? They always manage to suck balls in the playoffs, every year. So we can only talk about Orlando, LA, and Boston, Cleveland? Am I correct? |
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Post by spreedom8 on May 11, 2010 16:31:04 GMT -5
LOL at the LeBron guy saying that I triple post him (which I didn't do) and immediately double posting me, the second time bring up the most irrelevant garbage he could find. Just saying.
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Post by spreedom8 on May 11, 2010 16:38:59 GMT -5
2 points and I will step out of this battle: 1. Dirk is nowhere near the "Very best of all time", and he wont be. Even with a title, sorry. 2. The list was biggest playoff disappointments THIS YEAR, not ever. In 2010, he could be argued to be on that list, thats all. 3. Your homer is showing I didn't catch that the article was about 2010... What's the point in even writing it if we're only halfway through? And regarding me saying he's an all-time great -- I'd put him somewhere around 40. Didn't mean to imply he's a top 5 or even a top 10. |
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on May 11, 2010 17:33:52 GMT -5
2 points and I will step out of this battle: 1. Dirk is nowhere near the "Very best of all time", and he wont be. Even with a title, sorry. 2. The list was biggest playoff disappointments THIS YEAR, not ever. In 2010, he could be argued to be on that list, thats all. 3. Your homer is showing I didn't catch that the article was about 2010... What's the point in even writing it if we're only halfway through? And regarding me saying he's an all-time great -- I'd put him somewhere around 40. Didn't mean to imply he's a top 5 or even a top 10. He's not 40 either. You got the NBA top 50 players, players like Kobe, Lebron etc who werent on the list, guys who were snubbed etc. Maybe Top 100? Who knows where he ends up, but I dont know why I'd put him over a lot of others. sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/news/story?page=DisappointingPlayers-100510Heres the article, just something to talk about considering how lopsided the playoffs have been. |
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Post by Quanthor on May 11, 2010 18:18:01 GMT -5
Most of those are funny or don't really pertain to post-season play.
Disappointed in Duncan? Why? He's old! Don't players always start to suck when they get old?
Wallace to me is more of a surprise considering how awful he was all season.
Marion? When's the last time he really mattered? He's a freaking role player.
Roy? Seriously? The guy came back eight days after knee surgery, I can see being disappointed with his willingness to return but "hasten their demise" he did not. He sucked, but they don't win game 4 without him and the series is over in 5.
Jermaine O'Neal...he thought he was going to make an impact? lol.
Jefferson was a bust in the regular season, what made them think he'd show up in the playoffs?
The ones I agree with are Joe Johnson and Paul Pierce, they really are the downers of the post season.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on May 11, 2010 18:34:50 GMT -5
I can see everyone on that list, I can even see Pierce even though he's been decent up until the Cavs. They should have tweaked it and said "We expected the Spurs not to get swept, or Jermaine O'Neal to show a pulse"
Joe Johnson is like the only one that really sticks out to me
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Post by user9327 on May 11, 2010 20:07:44 GMT -5
LOL at the LeBron guy saying that I triple post him (which I didn't do) and immediately double posting me, the second time bring up the most irrelevant garbage he could find. Just saying. re-read it... I said you've responded 3 times now restating your debate that people disagree with. Last week when we talked about LeBron, I posted once and we moved on. Just saying. and don't send me PM's apologizing and then come in here and act tough after. Let's just move on then. |
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Post by user9327 on May 11, 2010 20:11:38 GMT -5
I thought Brandon Roy being on that list was harsh and had no merit. The guy had knee surgery 8 days before he played in any playoff game. Let's see the writer come back to work if he had surgery to correct a hand problem in 8 days.
LOL at the Celtics going on a 15-0 run when Mike Brown puts Shaq back in the game.
I know everybody is sick of hearing this, but I am rooting for the Celtics to practically send LeBron to NY.
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Post by BV on May 11, 2010 20:39:30 GMT -5
I officially declare myself Switzerland on the Dirk debate. I like him a lot, and he is a guy I would want on my team in a lot of situations. But I don't see him succeeding in winning a championship until he gets in a situation like Drexler with Olajuwon, or Garnet with Pierce and Allen. Can we stop talking about Dallas? Please? They always manage to suck balls in the playoffs, every year. So we can only talk about Orlando, LA, and Boston, Cleveland? Am I correct? Yes. |
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