Official 2010 NBA Playoffs Discussion

There almost needs to be different lists for different eras. Wilt, Oscar, West and Russell put up unrealistic numbers because they dominated an era with primitive talent. There's no way of telling how great they'd actually would have been if they had played today or even 20 - 25 years ago. They were ahead of their time. It's like comparing Cy Young to Greg Maddox, Jack Johnson to Ali, Roy Emerson to Roger Federer, etc.. There was also little competition(8 teams) and no free agency or salary cap. This is why the Celtics dominated for so many years. It's hard to improve your team when there's little to choose from and no way to attract talent to come and play for you. Head to head, Wilt arguably was the better player. Russell never slowed him down and Wilt consistently got the better of him statistically in games. The difference was in the supporting cast. It was the HOF talent of Cousy, KC Jones and company.

But when they were playing with fewer teams, they were playing against the cream of the crop, not padding their records against crappy expansion franchises.

If Kobe played in the 80's and early 90's he would have been about as good as... well,

just imagine that arrogant baby getting thrown to the floor by Rick Mahorn or Lambeir.

Also, I think you can't really crack the top 5, maybe 10, when you've played with the best big men in your career and still underachieved. Just saying, Kobe won 35 games and a little over 40 in the years of no Shaq or Gasol.

I mean, the fact alone that all of Kobe's fans today blame his team mates and not Kobe for Allen's record last night says enough. They throw the best supporting cast of all time under the bus every time they need.

In short, right now he has the best supporting cast I've ever seen. Maybe the one in 2004 that had 4 HOFer's but he blew that by ball hogging. But had they lost game 7's to OKC or even Houston last year, I mean Jesus... they faced game 7 with those teams??? And this guy is better than who?

He's a great scorer but I'm just not buying the one of the greatest player ever part. Because he's only a great player when he has the best around him. He's never been out the first round without it. Even Paul Pierce mustered up a Conference Finals run with Antoine Walker. What it Paul Pierce played for LA and Kobe in Boston, all this time? Seriously, think about it. I think things are pretty much the same for Shaq and Gasol.

I'm not trashing him as if he's irrelevant, but he certainly was without Shaq or Gasol...

Yea I get all that but that doesn't take away all of Kobe's underachieving even with a great supporting cast.

Not to mention, Pippen was exploited for the "great" player he was averaging half his numbers the first year away from Jordan and from there on out. Jordan had big white Centers such as Will Perdue and Luc Longley ok.... not Pau Gasol, Shaq and Bynum. Jordan had Steve Kerr, a broken down Ron Harper and Randy Brown ok.... not Derek Fisher, Ron Artest and Odom.

The bottom line is 2004 was so inexcusable it's not even funny and Kobe has played with more all stars than any of the players on the top whatever list and still hasn't out performed them.

Put Paul Pierce on LA in Kobe's place from 98 on and think about it....

edit;

In my opinion Kobe should have at least 7 championships right now. AT LEAST. They should have and could have won in 2008 but let's face it there was no unity on that team and they all quit. The Atlanta Hawks and Cavs roughed up Cleveland that year, and LA quit. Pathetic, no excuse. 2004 was a given, they should have won that as well, 4 HOFer's, no excuse, pathetic. You could argue in his earlier years before the 3 titles with Shaq that they should have had a shot in at least meeting the Bulls in the Finals... not consistently getting SWEPT 4-0 in the playoffs while playing WITH SHAQ who just came off of a Finals run with Orlando (who lost in the 1st round the year after he left).

But by all means, if Kobe wants to come out and drop 35, 11 and 5 the next game and just straight up cash some clutch shots, I'm all for it.

This debate can go either way, and it wasnt a slight at Kobe but to say he's better than Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Russell, Kareem, etc is blasphemy and frankly a joke.

He is not even close and he wont be

I guess there can always be players you miss out in the top. Unless you started watching the NBA from the very start, or are a history nut, I guess you can't really put a number. Other than MJ being the best.

But who knows what would happen if someone like Russell played during MJ's era.

yea I can't believe less than a year into his contract he's saying that crap.

In other news, yikes...

sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5264853

That up and under on the first shot of the game was nasty by KG.

Rondo sees extra options that I don't even think I could see in a video game at this point. Must be nice to have all 4 guys legitimate threats to look for.