June
Main Eventer
High Fives All Around!!!
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Post by June on Dec 17, 2009 19:39:58 GMT -5
Does that have anything to do with his personal life years after both of his title runs? Because I can not see how the greatest US Champion in WCW history can be considered undeserving of the World Title when he actually won the strap for the 1st time a few years later than he should have. it has ZERO to do with his personal life. never cared for Luger or his in ring"talent".I always found him lazy and very fond of the phone in. I also consider Rick Rude,Sting and many others to be above him in the US Title greats category. Rude was a great champ, as was Sting, but Lex held the US Title longer than both of them combined. The 4 times that Lex held the title between July of 87 - Decemeber of 90 the title was at it's all time height in prestige. That's 947 days as the US Champ were he defeated all comers and feuded with the best of that era. He has held the US Title 5X for a grand total of 948 days which is 322 days more than anyone else. Strength in competition is a big thing for me: - Lex won the US Title for the 1st time by defeated Nikita Kolof who had come of a nearly year long reign as US Champ, and Nikita had beaten Magnum TA in the legendary best of 7 series. - His 2nd reign came by defeating Barry Windam whom had held the title for 9 months after beating Nikita Kolof in a tournament final. - Title run #3 was the longest US Title reign in JCP's history (523). Luger defeated the Freebirds' Michael "PS" Hayes whom had stolen the title from him 15 days early with the assistance of fellow Freebird Terry "Bam Bam" Gordy. - Lex's won his 4th US title by defeating Stan Hansen in a "bullrope match" at Starrcade 90, Hansen had defeated Luger for the title at Halloween Havoc 50 days prior to Starrcade. Lex would never lose the US Title, but would be forced to vacate the title after 7 months once he defeated Barry Windham for the Vacated World Championship. Lex faced held the US title as a top heel, as a top face. Feuded with the likes of Dusty Rhodes, Stan Hansen, Ricky Steamboat, Ric Flair, Lex Luger, Barry Windham, Michael Hayes, Brian Pillman, & Nikita Koloff. Rude was a great champ, and so was Sting, but IMO the prestige of the US Title died after their feud for the title. Like I mentioned earlier, the US Title was at it's height during Luger's run with the strap.
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T-Phunk
Main Eventer
T-Phunkamania Runnin' Wild!!!
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Post by T-Phunk on Dec 18, 2009 13:39:29 GMT -5
To me DDP is tops of this list. I like the guy, but did not see him as the top of the game ever.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2009 15:32:43 GMT -5
it has ZERO to do with his personal life. never cared for Luger or his in ring"talent".I always found him lazy and very fond of the phone in. I also consider Rick Rude,Sting and many others to be above him in the US Title greats category. Rude was a great champ, as was Sting, but Lex held the US Title longer than both of them combined. The 4 times that Lex held the title between July of 87 - Decemeber of 90 the title was at it's all time height in prestige. That's 947 days as the US Champ were he defeated all comers and feuded with the best of that era. He has held the US Title 5X for a grand total of 948 days which is 322 days more than anyone else. Strength in competition is a big thing for me: - Lex won the US Title for the 1st time by defeated Nikita Kolof who had come of a nearly year long reign as US Champ, and Nikita had beaten Magnum TA in the legendary best of 7 series. - His 2nd reign came by defeating Barry Windam whom had held the title for 9 months after beating Nikita Kolof in a tournament final. - Title run #3 was the longest US Title reign in JCP's history (523). Luger defeated the Freebirds' Michael "PS" Hayes whom had stolen the title from him 15 days early with the assistance of fellow Freebird Terry "Bam Bam" Gordy. - Lex's won his 4th US title by defeating Stan Hansen in a "bullrope match" at Starrcade 90, Hansen had defeated Luger for the title at Halloween Havoc 50 days prior to Starrcade. Lex would never lose the US Title, but would be forced to vacate the title after 7 months once he defeated Barry Windham for the Vacated World Championship. Lex faced held the US title as a top heel, as a top face. Feuded with the likes of Dusty Rhodes, Stan Hansen, Ricky Steamboat, Ric Flair, Lex Luger, Barry Windham, Michael Hayes, Brian Pillman, & Nikita Koloff. Rude was a great champ, and so was Sting, but IMO the prestige of the US Title died after their feud for the title. Like I mentioned earlier, the US Title was at it's height during Luger's run with the strap. Brilliant post there chief.lots of great information
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2009 1:09:30 GMT -5
Goldberg...........I ing said it
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J-Swift
Main Eventer
Formerly known as: WHO DAT!!?!!??!
Joined on: Jun 27, 2009 0:19:04 GMT -5
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Post by J-Swift on Dec 19, 2009 1:26:47 GMT -5
Luger should be on there, not DDP.
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June
Main Eventer
High Fives All Around!!!
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Post by June on Dec 19, 2009 10:07:59 GMT -5
Luger should be on there, not DDP. see the difference between Lex and DDP is this: - Lex was screwed by Bischoff in kayfabe and contractually. - DDP's wife was getting screwed by Bischoff which is why DDP was pushed. DDP's title runs were meaningless and undeserved. Before DDP became a WCW "star" he was driving Honkey Tonk man around, managing a crappy stable in death-bed era AWA, and then managing a over the hill watered down version of the Freebirds, before being a curtain jerking comedy act from the Jersey Shores.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2009 10:45:42 GMT -5
Luger should be on there, not DDP. see the difference between Lex and DDP is this: - Lex was screwed by Bischoff in kayfabe and contractually. - DDP's wife was getting screwed by Bischoff which is why DDP was pushed. DDP's title runs were meaningless and undeserved. Before DDP became a WCW "star" he was driving Honkey Tonk man around, managing a crappy stable in death-bed era AWA, and then managing a over the hill watered down version of the Freebirds, before being a curtain jerking comedy act from the Jersey Shores. Yeah, I don't hate DDP, but I certainly don't understand the main event love he gets. Absolutely nothing about him -- looks, in-ring skill, or gimmick -- says "champion." For me, Lex's biggest problem was that he didn't care enough to put it all together and bring it every night. If you watched his whole career, I don't see how you can deny that he brought more to the table than someone like DDP or Jarrett. At times, he worked good, main-event level programs (though this was usually as the US champ). Other times, he looked like a disaster.
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Post by Jimmy on Dec 19, 2009 11:49:47 GMT -5
Goldberg...........I ing said it Goldberg wasn't a multi-time WCW Champion. Fail. I ing said it.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Dec 19, 2009 13:13:05 GMT -5
Sid Vicious is far less deserving than anyone on this list. He tripped over his words during interviews and had even less in-ring ability than Hulk Hogan. He wasn't even worthy of the US title.
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Post by 1992 on Dec 19, 2009 13:25:09 GMT -5
Goldberg...........I ing said it Goldberg wasn't a multi-time WCW Champion. Fail. I ing said it. Awesome. Just awesome.
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June
Main Eventer
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Post by June on Dec 19, 2009 23:24:57 GMT -5
Sid Vicious is far less deserving than anyone on this list. He tripped over his words during interviews and had even less in-ring ability than Hulk Hogan. He wasn't even worthy of the US title. Is this based off of a few Youtube videos you saw of Sid screwing up promos? Sid was over as hell as a heel, and could have easily been World Champion in late 1990 prior to heading to the WWE. When he got to the WWE he was once again the most over guy on a roster that also featured Macho Man, Hogan & Flair. Sid's ring ability was great, seeing as how he put asses in seats and entertained those asses while they were in the arena. His interviews were just as intense as his in-ring style. It's just too bad Sid did not wrestle a catch as catch can style, or utilize the top rope and totally go against what a Power Wrestler should be. It just sucks that he could not produce thought provoking promos and deliver saturday night live caliber comedic promos because everyone knows that is what an insane jacked-up madman is supposed to do. Sid owns the mediocre trio of Booker, DDP & Double J.
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Post by carly1988 on Dec 20, 2009 0:54:50 GMT -5
Sid wasnt over in the 90s. Sid's best days were in the WWF when his ass was carried by Undertaker and Hogan and you know if you have to be carried by Hogan you suck.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Dec 20, 2009 8:21:47 GMT -5
Sid Vicious is far less deserving than anyone on this list. He tripped over his words during interviews and had even less in-ring ability than Hulk Hogan. He wasn't even worthy of the US title. Is this based off of a few Youtube videos you saw of Sid screwing up promos? Sid was over as hell as a heel, and could have easily been World Champion in late 1990 prior to heading to the WWE. When he got to the WWE he was once again the most over guy on a roster that also featured Macho Man, Hogan & Flair. Sid's ring ability was great, seeing as how he put asses in seats and entertained those asses while they were in the arena. His interviews were just as intense as his in-ring style. It's just too bad Sid did not wrestle a catch as catch can style, or utilize the top rope and totally go against what a Power Wrestler should be. It just sucks that he could not produce thought provoking promos and deliver saturday night live caliber comedic promos because everyone knows that is what an insane jacked-up madman is supposed to do. Sid owns the mediocre trio of Booker, DDP & Double J. I watched Sid screw up on live TV/PPVs too many times. He constantly fumbled his words ( the Nash "I'm half as smart as you" and "Can I start over?" are legendary) and had no range at all. Whether he was a face or heel, all he could do was deliver a stale, melodramatically intense promo. In the ring, he was renown for his lack of ability. He was clumsy, couldn't sell, called spots without any covertness, and had an even more limited moveset than Hogan. While Booker, DDP, & JJ are second tier main eventers, Sid was never in the same league with them. They were developed in and out of the ring. Sid was a big, clumsy goof. Moreover, the man behind the character made him even worse. He blew his chance at a WCW title run by assaulting Arn Anderson. He left the WWF in '92 because Vince wouldn't turn him face when Sid wanted. He could never be trusted and he was never a draw.
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June
Main Eventer
High Fives All Around!!!
Joined on: May 31, 2009 10:54:49 GMT -5
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Post by June on Dec 20, 2009 8:56:19 GMT -5
Is this based off of a few Youtube videos you saw of Sid screwing up promos? Sid was over as hell as a heel, and could have easily been World Champion in late 1990 prior to heading to the WWE. When he got to the WWE he was once again the most over guy on a roster that also featured Macho Man, Hogan & Flair. Sid's ring ability was great, seeing as how he put asses in seats and entertained those asses while they were in the arena. His interviews were just as intense as his in-ring style. It's just too bad Sid did not wrestle a catch as catch can style, or utilize the top rope and totally go against what a Power Wrestler should be. It just sucks that he could not produce thought provoking promos and deliver saturday night live caliber comedic promos because everyone knows that is what an insane jacked-up madman is supposed to do. Sid owns the mediocre trio of Booker, DDP & Double J. I watched Sid screw up on live TV/PPVs too many times. He constantly fumbled his words ( the Nash "I'm half as smart as you" and "Can I start over?" are legendary) and had no range at all. Whether he was a face or heel, all he could do was deliver a stale, melodramatically intense promo. In the ring, he was renown for his lack of ability. He was clumsy, couldn't sell, called spots without any covertness, and had an even more limited moveset than Hogan. While Booker, DDP, & JJ are second tier main eventers, Sid was never in the same league with them. They were developed in and out of the ring. Sid was a big, clumsy goof. Moreover, the man behind the character made him even worse. He blew his chance at a WCW title run by assaulting Arn Anderson. He left the WWF in '92 because Vince wouldn't turn him face when Sid wanted. He could never be trusted and he was never a draw. Sid was clumsy in the ring and called clearly called spots, even had terrible punches, but the fact is that he was over and he was a draw. If he were not he would not have been WWE Champion and a Wrestlemania headliner on two occasions each. I don't look at wrestling as a legit sport, so a wrestlers technical prowess is not a determining factor in judging his ability in the ring, but instead I look at how the wrestler connects with the fans, and Sid did that as well as anyone. Sid got the audience involved whenever he was in the ring. The objective of pro wrestling is to entertain fans by having them suspend their disbelief and making them believe that what they are seeing is real. Sid was over be as a heel, or face so that tells me that he was great at connecting with fans, which makes him a great wrestler. Sid had the look, the power and his insane promos made his character more believable.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2009 10:25:47 GMT -5
I think I fall in the middle when it comes to Sid. On the one hand, I feel like legitimate power wrestlers are vastly underrated in the "smart mark" era brought on by the internet. Not everyone has to be super-technical to be a good wrestler. Now, if your clumsiness impedes your ability to sell the match as an actual contest, that's a big negative for me.
On the other hand, I don't think Sid was ever as over as June seems to be saying. Just because he was the champ and main-evented Wrestlemanias doesn't mean he was super-over. Promotions are always pushing the wrong guys for random reasons. That's kind of the point of this thread. It sounds like you really connected with Sid. For me, that connection was the one thing that he didn't have his whole career. He was big and scary, but just lacked the spark that made me really care. Now, that's subjective as hell, I admit, but I'm offering it as a counter to the argument that Sid was deserving as a champion because he was over and put asses in the seats. I honestly have never heard anybody argue that Sid was a big draw. Still, to me, he was much more deserving than DDP and Jarrett, but on the same level as Luger.
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Post by Mr. Old School™ on Dec 20, 2009 10:33:02 GMT -5
I gotta go with "Double J" Jeff Jarrett there. To me, I just don't buy him as a main eventer as much as he wants us to believe he is. He's just not World championship material to me. He's perfect for U.S./Intercontinental title and even tag-team, but nothing more than that.
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Post by steverow on Dec 20, 2009 12:08:00 GMT -5
They all deserved it, just WCW's booking made it horrendous. BINGO
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Dec 20, 2009 12:24:45 GMT -5
I watched Sid screw up on live TV/PPVs too many times. He constantly fumbled his words ( the Nash "I'm half as smart as you" and "Can I start over?" are legendary) and had no range at all. Whether he was a face or heel, all he could do was deliver a stale, melodramatically intense promo. In the ring, he was renown for his lack of ability. He was clumsy, couldn't sell, called spots without any covertness, and had an even more limited moveset than Hogan. While Booker, DDP, & JJ are second tier main eventers, Sid was never in the same league with them. They were developed in and out of the ring. Sid was a big, clumsy goof. Moreover, the man behind the character made him even worse. He blew his chance at a WCW title run by assaulting Arn Anderson. He left the WWF in '92 because Vince wouldn't turn him face when Sid wanted. He could never be trusted and he was never a draw. Sid was clumsy in the ring and called clearly called spots, even had terrible punches, but the fact is that he was over and he was a draw. If he were not he would not have been WWE Champion and a Wrestlemania headliner on two occasions each. . The objective of pro wrestling is to entertain fans by having them suspend their disbelief and making them believe that what they are seeing is real. Sid had the look, the power and his insane promos made his character more believable. We obviously saw two different things because Sid was the very antithesis of believabilty to me. He had a good look and that was it. His offense in the ring was ill-timed and he rarely made his opponents look good. If you saw one Sid match, you saw them all. He was a fake -looking as they come. His best work was as Shawn Michaels bodyguard and the ref at SummerSlam '91.
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Post by 49% Motherf**ker, 51% SOB on Dec 20, 2009 17:44:04 GMT -5
DDP for sure. He should of never been the champion. He owes his career to Bischoff.
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