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Post by arnanderson on May 25, 2010 14:14:08 GMT -5
^^^ Yeah, because calling someone ignorant and calling someone a f'ing idiot are so on the same level. ![::)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/rolleyes.gif) What about calling someone a ignorant bunghole??? Pot meet kettle? And your right calling someone a igornant bunghole because they challenge your opinion with facts, and science is so much worst then calling someone a idiot because with modern sciences they could stay alive! How bad of me to want people live, and not die because of their own stupidity!
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 17:33:26 GMT -5
It's not like every sector of science, religion challenges. I think most Christians are okay with physics and chemistry, etc. Yes, biology, specifically in the case of evolution is often challenged, but there are intelligent non-Christians who challenge Darwinism too, watch Ben Stein's documentary Expelled. Some Christians accept Darwinism, anyway. Religion only has to hurt you as much as you want it to, obviously you're not in the war or going through strife because of religion, so if you don't like it, just don't think about it.
Btw, I copy+pasted nothing as far as the ethnic groups that accept Islam. It's pretty well known about the ethnic groups/nations that are majorly Muslim, just read the World Almanac for example, or other sources.
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Post by thedeanofmean on May 25, 2010 22:36:00 GMT -5
Im not really sure what or if I believe in any religion. I think that all forms of religion has some truth to it, its up to us to determine what is truth and what isnt.
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Post by arnanderson on May 26, 2010 14:21:09 GMT -5
I think most Christians are okay with physics and chemistry, etc. Yes, biology, specifically in the case of evolution is often challenged, but there are intelligent non-Christians who challenge Darwinism too, watch Ben Stein's documentary Expelled. So this is the movie where you are getting alot of your idea's about. You do know that most people view that film as crap because it deceives don't you? It is a typical edit job where they take peices of sound bites, and interviews and fumble them up til the people who are making the film get what they require. Look at the giant hack and slash job Ben Stein did with Darwins views when he tried to link the nazi's to Darwin and their teachings! Here is a excerpt from the National Post According to John Moore writing in the National Post: Stein quotes from a passage in Darwin's writing that appears to endorse the notion that for a species to thrive the infirm must be culled. He omits the part where Darwin insists this would be "evil" and that man's care for the weak is "the noblest part of our nature." When I asked Stein about this on my radio show he deadpanned, "If any Darwin fans are listening and we have misquoted him, we are sorry; we don't mean to diss Darwin." My advice to you is to really explore and research using reliable, and trust worthy information. Something this movie is not, as your opinions will greatly change after doing so. Because the name of that movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed is certainly correct. Anyone with a tiny shred of Intelligence shouldn't watch it as it butchers itself. That has to be one of the stupidest things I have read. Religion is hurting people today, yesterday, and will continue to do so. How can you honestly say that it will only hurt you as much as you want it to? What about all the people who are being murdered right now by religion during our current war? Try telling them that! Or what about the people who are trying to work on a cure for parkinson's in which religion has caused a potential cure to go on the wayside because they are against stem cell research because they are pro-life, and it somehow devalues human life? Or what about how it keeps gay people from being treated equal? Because the last time I checked we were all to be treated equal. Unless of course you are different then the majority? It is hard to not think about it when it is apart of our history as a human race that has caused murder of the innocent, and major problems with setbacks to science, and human rights because of it. And then having to read comments that are simply wrong like how people who believe that they are hear for no reason other then to live life to the fullest, and to reproduce, and become apart of the circle of life are somehow crazier then people who choose to kill themselves because they refuse blood transfusions, and other religions where they believe that murdering people are right is simply, and utterly to the point wrong! Not to mention going against a single cell organism creates life, when you know Scientists actually use cells to recreate human body parts? If I didn't have to read this stuff, or live in a world where religion plays a contstant role in peoples lives that wreaks such havoc, instead of being peaceful which is what it should be used for and if you asked God he would even say the samething. He would not deny that religion has caused a lot of murder, and problems both scientifically, and socially because of it when it never should have in the first place. I did know that. I just couldn't figure out why someone would honestly type out all that stuff when it was common knowledge in the first place.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 19:45:35 GMT -5
Okay, but I don't really think Stein was necessarily accusing Darwin of being an evil person. I think he was saying that his teaching can lead to evil actions, and there is no doubt that Social Darwinism, "survival of the fittest races," exists; it's something that exists, a well-known phenomenon.
And as I said, if religion wasn't existent, people would still fight, over territory, food, resources, secular ideologies, and everything else. Cavemen fought each other over these very things, societies in the Bronze and Iron Ages did the same, various non-Judeo-Christian empires did it, and further than that, recent secular ideological systems like Nazism and Communism did it.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 20:48:55 GMT -5
I practice a religion called Awesomeness. When you die, you go up to a cloud surronded by Maryse Oullet and she'll make you lie down and she'll pin you. ![:)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/smiley.gif) But really I'm Christian.
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Post by mrwest on May 26, 2010 22:05:05 GMT -5
I practice a religion called Awesomeness. When you die, you go up to a cloud surronded by Maryse Oullet and she'll make you lie down and she'll pin you. ![:)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/smiley.gif) But really I'm Christian. ;DLol this guy.
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Post by ville on May 27, 2010 8:46:32 GMT -5
Damn, this thing still going?
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Post by pineappleexpress on May 27, 2010 9:44:36 GMT -5
Religion = tension.
If this thread didn't already prove it.
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Post by Angel Beast on May 27, 2010 10:22:44 GMT -5
what this thread proved is that people can have a civilized conversation about religion with out being violent and hateful.
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Post by ville on May 27, 2010 10:26:10 GMT -5
what this thread proved is that people can have a civilized conversation about religion with out being violent and hateful. Thats what I mean, most of the time on here its all arguing.
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Post by arnanderson on May 27, 2010 13:35:04 GMT -5
Okay, but I don't really think Stein was necessarily accusing Darwin of being an evil person. I think he was saying that his teaching can lead to evil actions, and there is no doubt that Social Darwinism, "survival of the fittest races," exists; it's something that exists, a well-known phenomenon. If that was true then Ben would have made it clear in his interview when asked about it. But he did nothing, and simply apologized for it. It still doesn't change that that documentary was crap, and even the majority of people who watched it who were Christians found it to be crap as it only has a 8% rating among viewers. And now that I see you believe in survival of the fittest you must understand the purpose of life, and the answer that people have for it. So it isn't that crazy after all is it? Yes there would be wars, and fighting but we would live as a much better, and much smarter, and a much more tolerant world then what we currently live in. The Middle East wouldn't be run under religious rules, and we wouldn't be having our Soldiers dieing over there, nor would we have had innocent people killed during 9/11. We wouldn't have the Palestine conflicts. Innocent people would not have died during the Salem Witch Trials. Our Science would be much better. And people would be treated more equal as to what a lot of religions teach. Gay people, and women would not be perscuted, and even killed because of their sexuality and gender. I don't know about you, but I would rather have less murder, and death then more of it!
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Post by Kliquid on May 27, 2010 13:41:05 GMT -5
The christians who posted in that "Miss USA a Muslim!?!" are the exact people who make other people hate that religion.
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Post by StingerSplash on May 27, 2010 13:54:17 GMT -5
what this thread proved is that people can have a civilized conversation about religion with out being violent and hateful. Yep. Except when a couple of people who don't have any knowledge on the subject come in. But, I think we all handled that well. The christians who posted in that "Miss USA a Muslim!?!" are the exact people who make other people hate that religion. I don't recall anything being negative being said about the woman. Maybe I overlooked it. I do remember something being brought up about building a mosque near Ground Zero. Personally, it's not the best choice. I'm a Christian, and I respect other religions, BUT...I don't think Ground Zero is the best place for a mosque.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 13:56:33 GMT -5
Okay, but I don't really think Stein was necessarily accusing Darwin of being an evil person. I think he was saying that his teaching can lead to evil actions, and there is no doubt that Social Darwinism, "survival of the fittest races," exists; it's something that exists, a well-known phenomenon. If that was true then Ben would have made it clear in his interview when asked about it. But he did nothing, and simply apologized for it. It still doesn't change that that documentary was crap, and even the majority of people who watched it who were Christians found it to be crap as it only has a 8% rating among viewers. And now that I see you believe in survival of the fittest you must understand the purpose of life, and the answer that people have for it. So it isn't that crazy after all is it? Yes there would be wars, and fighting but we would live as a much better, and much smarter, and a much more tolerant world then what we currently live in. The Middle East wouldn't be run under religious rules, and we wouldn't be having our Soldiers dieing over there, nor would we have had innocent people killed during 9/11. We wouldn't have the Palestine conflicts. Innocent people would not have died during the Salem Witch Trials. Our Science would be much better. And people would be treated more equal as to what a lot of religions teach. Gay people, and women would not be perscuted, and even killed because of their sexuality and gender. I don't know about you, but I would rather have less murder, and death then more of it! I was simply saying that the theory of Social Darwinism exists; that some people believe in it, that it is a "concept" accepted by individuals, that some races are superior. Okay, here's a question, if you're going with the idea that religion is man-made hogwash; evolutionally, wouldn't religion be just another defense mechanism created by man? Here you have beings smarter than animals, but not smart enough to explain the origins of the universe, and so therefore they create God and religion as an explanation and a reason of being; it seems that Darwinism should include religion as an inevitability and therefore you can't hate it, because it was bound to happen as part of our evolution.
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Post by arnanderson on May 27, 2010 13:57:02 GMT -5
Yep. Except when a couple of people who don't have any knowledge on the subject come in. But, I think we all handled that well. You mean like yourself? And you did handle it well by calling people who presented science and facts against your opinion a ignorant douchbag?
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Post by StingerSplash on May 27, 2010 14:03:33 GMT -5
Yep. Except when a couple of people who don't have any knowledge on the subject come in. But, I think we all handled that well. You mean like yourself? And you did handle it well by calling people who presented science and facts against your opinion a ignorant douchbag? ![::)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/rolleyes.gif) I presented everything from the Bible. Which has to do with what we were discussing. We were discussing religion not science. And I said you were ignorant for the way you were behaving in the thread. I never called you a douch ebag, although you're starting to act like one.
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Post by arnanderson on May 27, 2010 14:21:30 GMT -5
I was simply saying that the theory of Social Darwinism exists; that some people believe in it, that it is a "concept" accepted by individuals, that some races are superior. But you said you believe in survival of the fittest. Which is the point I was trying to make above. You asked a question and there is your answer which isn't to crazy if you take out the race part which is what many believe. Evolution is not the same thing as a atheist. They are two seperate things. Evolution is a fact, as if you look at other animals that have changed over times. Snakes were once lizards with tails! Scientists tend to believe the same thing has happend to humans and by digging up skeltons is how they are coming to that conclusion. Religious belifes are much different then that. Smarter? Yes but not by a whole lot. We are talking about the same people who believe in nazism, and blowing up the planet, and killing innocent people. And it hasn't been that long of a time period that they were able to explain. A lot because of modern sciences. We didn't think black holes could travel. Now we do. Back when religion was created they lacked science, and had to rely on the only stuff they know. And why should Dawinism be included into religion? They are two seperate fields with one using science, the other they went by on what they knew at the time. And sure you can hate religion because religion has done plenty of murdering, and bad things for people to have a right to hate it. And religion isn't a part of evolution as a species. It is what it is. Simple answers to questions. Was nazism a part of evolution? Hell no! ![::)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/rolleyes.gif) I presented everything from the Bible. Which has to do with what we were discussing. We were discussing religion not science. And I said you were ignorant for the way you were behaving in the thread. I never called you a douch ebag, although you're starting to act like one. I was also discussing religion by pointing out the errors in it, like the Bible, that was written by man, and not with intervention by God. I proved that when I brought up Galileo, and the passage from the Bible about Earth and it's movement. You called me ignorant because I brought up facts that went up against your belief. That is what is ignorant, and then you become a hyprocrit by telling me that I shouldn't be calling people names, and people stupid when they actually are! And your right you didn't call me a douchebag, you called me bunghole! And I have proof! Here it is! It wasn't an argument until some ignorant bunghole had to come it here and mouth off. Up until today it's actually been a very nice discussion/debate. Unlike most 'religion' threads on here. So please start practicing what you preach.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 15:26:55 GMT -5
I was simply saying that the theory of Social Darwinism exists; that some people believe in it, that it is a "concept" accepted by individuals, that some races are superior. But you said you believe in survival of the fittest. Which is the point I was trying to make above. You asked a question and there is your answer which isn't to crazy if you take out the race part which is what many believe. Evolution is not the same thing as a atheist. They are two seperate things. Evolution is a fact, as if you look at other animals that have changed over times. Snakes were once lizards with tails! Scientists tend to believe the same thing has happend to humans and by digging up skeltons is how they are coming to that conclusion. Religious belifes are much different then that. Smarter? Yes but not by a whole lot. We are talking about the same people who believe in nazism, and blowing up the planet, and killing innocent people. And it hasn't been that long of a time period that they were able to explain. A lot because of modern sciences. We didn't think black holes could travel. Now we do. Back when religion was created they lacked science, and had to rely on the only stuff they know. And why should Dawinism be included into religion? They are two seperate fields with one using science, the other they went by on what they knew at the time. And sure you can hate religion because religion has done plenty of murdering, and bad things for people to have a right to hate it. And religion isn't a part of evolution as a species. It is what it is. Simple answers to questions. Was nazism a part of evolution? Hell no! I was also discussing religion by pointing out the errors in it, like the Bible, that was written by man, and not with intervention by God. I proved that when I brought up Galileo, and the passage from the Bible about Earth and it's movement. You called me ignorant because I brought up facts that went up against your belief. That is what is ignorant, and then you become a hyprocrit by telling me that I shouldn't be calling people names, and people stupid when they actually are! And your right you didn't call me a douchebag, you called me bunghole! And I have proof! Here it is! It wasn't an argument until some ignorant bunghole had to come it here and mouth off. Up until today it's actually been a very nice discussion/debate. Unlike most 'religion' threads on here. So please start practicing what you preach. I was saying that the BELIEF of survival of the fittest exists, but not that it's a belief that's always good for humanity. Darwinism doesn't explain how matter came into being, nor how inorganic matter became a single cell organism 3.5 billion years ago. I've seen the descriptions of the transitional fossils, and I'm not claiming what I believe 100% either way. Darwinism introduces its own framework and claims that the transitional fossils are proof of it, but who's to say that these transitional fossils weren't just creatures who were different types of animals - rather than being intermediary species between one species and another - that are now extinct? Take for example the earliest amphibians said to evolve from fish, or the earliest reptiles said to evolve from amphibians, or the earliest mammals said to evolve from reptiles, and all the rest - who's to say these weren't animals of their own that weren't really "transitional" but went extinct due to not being able to survive in an environment as well as the full reptiles and full mammals, etc.? To me, Darwinism is a PLAUSIBLE explanation, but not the end-all-be-all, there are many possibilities as to what these fossils represent, and people who choose to believe in literal creation, or even theistic Darwinism can be great, great people. Also, 99% of genetic mutations are negative and non-productive, where are the trillions of fossils of ancient animals with non-productive mutations and negative mutations? In most cases, doesn't a genetic mutation refer to cancer, and other horrible things happening, rather than good mutations? Again, more evidence that either it didn't happen, or that it could have only happened with God at the helm. Again, not saying Darwinism is or isn't true, but it seems like the evidence could point in a lot of different directions, not just one, and people who believe in God find hope and direction in their life through it; I don't see anything wrong with that.
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Post by arnanderson on Jun 1, 2010 14:04:04 GMT -5
I was saying that the BELIEF of survival of the fittest exists, but not that it's a belief that's always good for humanity. And the same can be said for religion as well. It's caused a lot of problems for this world, and a lot of lives have been lost because of it! That isn't Darwinism, that's the big bang theory. Stuff scientists are still working on, and the only thing religion offers is that God made everything. And let me remind you that it was religion that has set back these types of sciences, as we could be much more knowing had that type of stuff not come under fire. It could very well be as simple as a atom exploding and luck that we all turned out how we did which many non believers of God, God's believe in. Darwinism in itself isn't exactly the greatest thing as it isn't what Charles Darwin believed but has changed over the years as there parts that in which Charles Darwin did not believe in. But likewise can be said too on how can you discount it? Well evolution DOES OCCUR that is a FACT that CAN NOT be DENIED. Snakes once had legs, and scientists state that humans will lose our appendix due to us not having to use it anymore. And it isn't the first thing we have lost in our evolution. Creatures adapt to changes over time, and their WILL BE evolution of species because of it when dealing with situtations. But science points more, and more towards it. You have to remember again religion tried to block these findings, and research because it would go against it's findings. And we are still relatively young at figuring all of it out. Sure both can be great people, but atheists, and religious people can be the worst of existance as well. The difference is that atheists do not hide behind a set of beliefs especially when religions murder, and do harmful things in the name of their religion. It can NOT be DENIED though that this world would be a much BETTER place without religion though, because murder, and perscution against people who simply do not believe in the same things they do wouldn't be dead, tortured, jailed, or perscuted today. I sure don't like being in todays war. And I am sure that everyone who has been killed, tortured, and perscuted against would say the same thing! Look at how the gays are perscuted against today with no reason whatsoever when you consider that animals themselves engage in gay activities which proves that their is absolutely NOTHING wrong with being gay! Yet people are still against it! And where does that usually lead from? Religion... Where is your source? And no genetic mutations do not only refer to cancer. Genetic mutations happen in all species. Evolution in species IS genetic mutation. That also isn't evidence that it didn't happen, as that is entirely wrong first of all. Secondly where do you think all your fossil fuels come from? That's right fossils over time. Not to mention that they simply could detoriate into dust over time. We are lucky to find ancient fossils. If there was no religion, and no one ever had it in their head that it even existed they would probably solve their issues as well. Religion though is great for hope in dire times. Though a lot of people use it as a excuse as well when they say their whole life is already planned out in advance which is why they didn't get something when if they actually put in the effort they could have attained those goals by trying, and not leaving it up to chance. Not to mention the amount of harm that has been done by religion. There are three types of people out there. Religious, religious who also believe in science, and people who go off purely on science. A problem does occur with the first class of people though when science does bring facts to the table and they choose not to believe in it because their teachings say otherwise and become instantly stupidfied when their passion exceeds logic, and facts.
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