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Post by slappy on Jul 11, 2010 3:02:54 GMT -5
I know that and I agree with that. I'm just saying if you are going to allow some unions to be called marriages then that should apply to all people, straight and gay. That they should be allowed to use the term married if they want to. Assuming that this new law would be implemented where the government would recognize only "spousal unions," pre-existing marriages would be grandfathered in. That's only logical. However, future church "marriages" would be irrelevant in the eyes of the state and would require the paperwork to be filed in order for the couple to be a "spousal union." You can call your union whatever YOU want to -- spousal union, marriage, f*ck-buddies -- but the federal government shouldn't be recognizing "marriage." There needs to be a separate term used for government. That's fine then. |
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Post by Kliquid on Jul 11, 2010 3:07:06 GMT -5
In all the time that I have been discussing this issue, I have never come across someone - gay or straight - who has a true dislike for that compromise.
I'm truly surprised, and saddened, that it has taken our federal government so long to come up with an idea that took me 5 seconds to think of in my head.
Everybody wins. Religious people still get to say, "No queers allowed!!" if their church wants to, but gays can have the same rights - AND be 'married' by churches who allow it.
I can't believe this is even a voting issue. I really, truly, cannot believe it.
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Post by slappy on Jul 11, 2010 3:16:38 GMT -5
Did states allow people to vote to ban inter-racial marriages? I'm assuming no. They were just illegal. It just took a court decision to render it legal and I don't think there have been any challenges to that.
So why do we allow people to vote on this? DOMA made it illegal, states are just doing it, because their bungholes. DOMA was ruled unconstitutional. That should mean same-sex marriage is legal.
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Post by Kliquid on Jul 11, 2010 3:28:53 GMT -5
The constitution also says that there should be separation of church and state, which implies that "marriage" should be disregarded by the government anyway.
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Post by slappy on Jul 11, 2010 3:30:06 GMT -5
The constitution also says that there should be separation of church and state, which implies that "marriage" should be disregarded by the government anyway. So let's sue. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2010 11:44:14 GMT -5
Yeah, but I'm not saying it is or isn't. Technically if you're open minded, you should be open to either possibility. Science journals are constantly changing, and theories are always modified. Read a science textbook from the early 1900s, it'll say completely different things from one from 2010. I'm not taking a stand either way here, I'm playing devil's advocate saying if you're technically "open-minded," you could be open to the idea of it going either way. But yeah, I tend to hold to the idea of leaving it up to the states. The less federalism, the better. I can't be open minded to it, because I know it's not true. I know I didn't choose this life. Why would anyone choose to be something that would make others hate them, despise them, make them an outcast, be harassed and given death threats? I didn't choose to be this way. So you just "know" ? That sounds like it's hinging on religion/spirituality. Where's the science? Get the point I'm trying to illustrate here? We can argue all day, but at the end we just agree to disagree, because neither of us can prove it to the other, either way. Regardless of what you've read, there are scientists and psychologists who believe that it is a choice - and there are journals and periodicals, not even of a religious nature - preaching the same thing. There are also journals and science periodicals preaching that it is not a choice. It goes both ways, and neither side will ever agree with the other. Doesn't this lift just mean that if you were married in a state where gay marriage is legal, and go to a state where it's not, that they must still recognize it? To my knowledge the federal govt. does not have the power to mandate that every state legalize it. Again, the less federal govt., the better. |
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WWF
Superstar
Say Cheese!
Joined on: Feb 1, 2010 20:49:35 GMT -5
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Post by WWF on Jul 11, 2010 12:17:58 GMT -5
I'm not against gays people. I have nothing wrong with them, just the decisions that they make. I'm a Christian. Not some whack job Bible thumper, just someone who's drawn his conclusions from his studies. It's not the people, it's the lifestyle that I'm against. I do my best to respect everyone and what they believe in as much as I can, but I have to stand for what I believe in as well.  Oh. I see. Personaly I think that is wrong. Yeah me too. I am a twin and I am straight where as my brother is gay and we could all tell from a very young age that he was gay. It's something that's biological and if you did any studies you would see that makes way more sense then someone waking up in the morning being like "hmm I wanna sleep with a man today or a woman" Why would someone choose what you call a life style that brings nothing but trouble to them from ignorant people who sit high on their thrones of judgment and just speculate on with out even having a clue. I saw my brother get made fun of school, treated differently at work and accused of the most ridiculous things just because he has a different sexual preference then someone else. SO yeah go ahead tell me it's a choice and it's a lifestyle then someone just wakes up and picks one morning. Next thing you will tell me is people wake up and choose their skin color too just to piss people off.  Whatever people like you are becoming the minority in this situation with your closed minded ideas and you gentle wording about your strong dislike for another persons "choice". Well it's not a choice it's a small part of who they are. My brother has brought home guys before and no I don't want to see them make out infront of me just like I don't want to see anyone on here make out with their loved ones. And yes when I was younger I had backwards beliefs about it too but that was only because I wasn't educated about it. I won't argue anymore but any self righteous douche on the internet who is upset at the fact of 2 people who love each other and are happy together doesn't deserve any more of my attention. One day you will admit you are wrong. |
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35F20
Main Eventer
Theirs was not to reason why....
Joined on: May 8, 2002 22:12:35 GMT -5
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Post by 35F20 on Jul 11, 2010 12:40:21 GMT -5
I don't think there should really be any debate over whether it is a choice or not. Do I choose whether I find certain women attractive or not? No. Hence the reason why my buddies and I would make fun of each other whenever someone hooked up with an "ugly" chick. In the same manner, you can't choose who you fall in love with. I certainly didn't choose to fall in love with my wife. If anything, it was a huge problem and inconvenience since she was already engaged.
At it's core, isn't marriage supposed to be about love and devotion? So if anything, wouldn't two gay people who are madly in love and devoted to each other reinforce the strength of marriage, as opposed to a set of 18-year old kids who parents force them to get married after they forget to use a condom? So many people out there get marriage for reasons other then it's true "religious meaning" yet no one makes anywhere near as big a fuss over it. Hell, there are television reality shows where people compete to get married to someone. If anything that is a bigger assault on the sanctity of marriage.
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Post by K5 on Jul 11, 2010 13:16:21 GMT -5
people who use their religion to blind them and allow themselves to take away basic rights of happiness deserve to burn in their bullcraphell.
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Post by Kody on Jul 11, 2010 13:29:58 GMT -5
Me too. Seriously there still humans and its not like its there choice.lmao. But, not matter what I think about homosexuality, there's no reason they shouldn't have the same rights as straight people. So...this is good, I guess. |
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Post by slappy on Jul 11, 2010 17:01:49 GMT -5
I can't be open minded to it, because I know it's not true. I know I didn't choose this life. Why would anyone choose to be something that would make others hate them, despise them, make them an outcast, be harassed and given death threats? I didn't choose to be this way. So you just "know" ? That sounds like it's hinging on religion/spirituality. Where's the science? Get the point I'm trying to illustrate here? We can argue all day, but at the end we just agree to disagree, because neither of us can prove it to the other, either way. Regardless of what you've read, there are scientists and psychologists who believe that it is a choice - and there are journals and periodicals, not even of a religious nature - preaching the same thing. There are also journals and science periodicals preaching that it is not a choice. It goes both ways, and neither side will ever agree with the other. Doesn't this lift just mean that if you were married in a state where gay marriage is legal, and go to a state where it's not, that they must still recognize it? To my knowledge the federal govt. does not have the power to mandate that every state legalize it. Again, the less federal govt., the better. The Supreme Court can make states legalize it. You can't get into my head to know it's not a choice. Because I know it's not, because I know I didn't choose this. |
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Post by ebilbryan™ on Jul 11, 2010 18:32:59 GMT -5
 this is an ad I just got... as for the topic - good, gay couples deserve the same opportunities as every other couple, for their marriage to be ruled 'unconstitutional' was completely ludicrous. |
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Post by miserere on Jul 11, 2010 20:42:50 GMT -5
Churches marrying gays doesn't seem right. It's counter-intuitive, don't you think?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2010 21:38:37 GMT -5
So you just "know" ? That sounds like it's hinging on religion/spirituality. Where's the science? Get the point I'm trying to illustrate here? We can argue all day, but at the end we just agree to disagree, because neither of us can prove it to the other, either way. Regardless of what you've read, there are scientists and psychologists who believe that it is a choice - and there are journals and periodicals, not even of a religious nature - preaching the same thing. There are also journals and science periodicals preaching that it is not a choice. It goes both ways, and neither side will ever agree with the other. Doesn't this lift just mean that if you were married in a state where gay marriage is legal, and go to a state where it's not, that they must still recognize it? To my knowledge the federal govt. does not have the power to mandate that every state legalize it. Again, the less federal govt., the better. The Supreme Court can make states legalize it. You can't get into my head to know it's not a choice. Because I know it's not, because I know I didn't choose this. On a personal level as far as you yourself go, I can believe that. But will you admit that out of the many gay humans on the planet Earth, at least SOME may have chosen it? There are some that SAY that they chose to be that way. Most don't, but some do. Again, all I'm saying is that on a controversial issue like this, there are a trillion different opinions going in a trillion different directions. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2010 22:10:45 GMT -5
I really don't care about the gays and their laws, that's their business.
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Post by slappy on Jul 11, 2010 22:24:26 GMT -5
Churches marrying gays doesn't seem right. It's counter-intuitive, don't you think? Unitarian Universalist churches would marry gay people. I'm sure there are other churches as well. And no, I don't believe anyone for one second that says they chose to be this way. Has any straight person ever come out and said that they chose to be straight? And I don't mean the straight people that are "cured" gays. I'm talking actual straight people, not people lying to themselves because their p*ssies about being gay so they tell everyone they're cured and they no longer have this illness,  them. |
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Post by miserere on Jul 11, 2010 22:57:18 GMT -5
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Post by JDSFullmetal on Jul 11, 2010 23:17:40 GMT -5
Churches marrying gays doesn't seem right. It's counter-intuitive, don't you think? Unitarian Universalist churches would marry gay people. I'm sure there are other churches as well. And no, I don't believe anyone for one second that says they chose to be this way. Has any straight person ever come out and said that they chose to be straight? And I don't mean the straight people that are "cured" gays. I'm talking actual straight people, not people lying to themselves because their p*ssies about being gay so they tell everyone they're cured and they no longer have this illness, them. THANK YOU! IMO this is a HUGE step for gay rights. IMO straight people need to stop worrieing over what gay people are doing and start worrieing over they own f'd up lives, People say its against there religion and that the "Guy's" will go to hell, last i checked adultery is a sin yet how many married men pay for hookers. Gotta love how people like to pick what parts they wanna fallow  |
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Post by Joe/Smurf on Jul 12, 2010 0:03:31 GMT -5
The Supreme Court can make states legalize it. You can't get into my head to know it's not a choice. Because I know it's not, because I know I didn't choose this. On a personal level as far as you yourself go, I can believe that. But will you admit that out of the many gay humans on the planet Earth, at least SOME may have chosen it? There are some that SAY that they chose to be that way. Most don't, but some do. Again, all I'm saying is that on a controversial issue like this, there are a trillion different opinions going in a trillion different directions. Why would anyone CHOOSE a lifestyle that is so socially "taboo" that you could get shunned by your own family/friends/community/etc.? And don't respond with something like "Well, people choose to be goths," etc., because it's not even CLOSE to the same. |
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Post by Calcifer Boheme on Jul 12, 2010 1:55:34 GMT -5
I'm glad this is happening... Hopefully it will create an end to the ban all over. Every person deserves happiness regardless of what others believe. Gay people are not evil, homosexuality is not a choice, and the world will not be any worse if they are allowed to marry. Johnathan and David would be proud, to throw in a biblical reference.  |
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