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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2010 3:44:49 GMT -5
I'd be angry if they beat up someone. But with your example, it seems the main purpose of the church is to go out and incite violence. While the building of a mosque/Islamic center is not out there advocating beating up or blowing up or terrorizing anyone. I hope your right, but in the mean time you really should watch that documentary I had suggested, the one called Islam: What the West Needs to Know. The thing about Islam is (as I've mentioned before on here), it's going to be tribal and violent because look at the historical context; 7th century Saudi Arabia, what do you expect? Judaism shows up in the Bronze Age Middle East, and Christianity shows up in the 1st century middle east. They're all going to have violence (even in the Christian New Testament, you have God striking down individuals who keep money from the early church, teachings about the lake of fire, and all of the end time stuff in Revelation). Luckily we have the 18th century Constitution which says believe whatever you want, but if you do something that is state-wise illegal, there are punishments.
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Alpha Q Up
Main Eventer
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Post by Alpha Q Up on Aug 14, 2010 3:48:19 GMT -5
I'd be angry if they beat up someone. But with your example, it seems the main purpose of the church is to go out and incite violence. While the building of a mosque/Islamic center is not out there advocating beating up or blowing up or terrorizing anyone. I hope your right, but in the mean time you really should watch that documentary I had suggested, the one called Islam: What the West Needs to Know. LMAO..One word. IGNORANT. There's NOTHING wrong with the Muslim religion, almost every Muslim person I know are great citizens and have amazing hearts, YES..better heart's then some Christians I know who have abused their grand-children over being kids of a mom and dad who had sex before getting married, speaking to their grand-child like they're some kind of mixed breed or some kind of new species. Islam: What the West Needs to Know? LOL? Really..? What's their to know? That a bunch of idiotic people who got brainwashed by sick human beings trying to find innocent confused prey's to do their little dirty work for them bombed us and now that whole religion that has a respectful back round, making hundreds of thousands of small-business jobs for AMERICANS and countless hours of community service, Charity's and don't forget all those Muslim men and women fighting for us in Iraq. You are an IGNORANT person if you even have that kind of mindset of a religion..just brain-washed from Fox News and self made documentaries from backwoods hicks from middle America. I am sickened.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2010 4:01:12 GMT -5
I hope your right, but in the mean time you really should watch that documentary I had suggested, the one called Islam: What the West Needs to Know. LMAO..One word. IGNORANT. There's NOTHING wrong with the Muslim religion, almost every Muslim person I know are great citizens and have amazing hearts, YES..better heart's then some Christians I know who have abused their grand-children over being kids of a mom and dad who had sex before getting married, speaking to their grand-child like they're some kind of mixed breed or some kind of new species. Islam: What the West Needs to Know? LOL? Really..? What's their to know? That a bunch of idiotic people who got brainwashed by sick human beings trying to find innocent confused prey's to do their little dirty work for them bombed us and now that whole religion that has a respectful back round, making hundreds of thousands of small-business jobs for AMERICANS and countless hours of community service, Charity's and don't forget all those Muslim men and women fighting for us in Iraq. You are an IGNORANT person if you even have that kind of mindset of a religion..just brain-washed from Fox News and self made documentaries from backwoods hicks from middle America. I am sickened. Not everyone who watches FOX or is from a small town is anti-Islamic. There are probably Muslims that watch FOX and Muslims that live in small towns. Obviously he's not badmouthing the Muslims that fight or us or help make something of our economy, he's badmouthing radical Islamic extremists. Many people do demonize Muslims and throw them all in one category, but people on the other side do it too. It's wrong either way.
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Alpha Q Up
Main Eventer
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Post by Alpha Q Up on Aug 14, 2010 4:36:21 GMT -5
LMAO..One word. IGNORANT. There's NOTHING wrong with the Muslim religion, almost every Muslim person I know are great citizens and have amazing hearts, YES..better heart's then some Christians I know who have abused their grand-children over being kids of a mom and dad who had sex before getting married, speaking to their grand-child like they're some kind of mixed breed or some kind of new species. Islam: What the West Needs to Know? LOL? Really..? What's their to know? That a bunch of idiotic people who got brainwashed by sick human beings trying to find innocent confused prey's to do their little dirty work for them bombed us and now that whole religion that has a respectful back round, making hundreds of thousands of small-business jobs for AMERICANS and countless hours of community service, Charity's and don't forget all those Muslim men and women fighting for us in Iraq. You are an IGNORANT person if you even have that kind of mindset of a religion..just brain-washed from Fox News and self made documentaries from backwoods hicks from middle America. I am sickened. Not everyone who watches FOX or is from a small town is anti-Islamic. There are probably Muslims that watch FOX and Muslims that live in small towns. Obviously he's not badmouthing the Muslims that fight or us or help make something of our economy, he's badmouthing radical Islamic extremists. Many people do demonize Muslims and throw them all in one category, but people on the other side do it too. It's wrong either way. True, but I am also taking his comments from other threads about Muslims into account. His whole mindset on this is what I tryed to get at in my last post.
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Post by extreme on Aug 14, 2010 5:22:59 GMT -5
They should be able to build one there but I'm afraid it being vandalized by people who think it shouldn't be there is inevitable.
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Post by Adam on Aug 14, 2010 9:56:01 GMT -5
That's the thing with a lot of deeply religious people, they claim to be all about religious freedom when in reality they only care about freedom of THEIR religion.
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Post by K5 on Aug 14, 2010 10:50:36 GMT -5
i can't believe how misinformed some of you are, lmao. how is this mosque even under debate?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2010 12:23:51 GMT -5
Not everyone who watches FOX or is from a small town is anti-Islamic. There are probably Muslims that watch FOX and Muslims that live in small towns. Obviously he's not badmouthing the Muslims that fight or us or help make something of our economy, he's badmouthing radical Islamic extremists. Many people do demonize Muslims and throw them all in one category, but people on the other side do it too. It's wrong either way. True, but I am also taking his comments from other threads about Muslims into account. His whole mindset on this is what I tryed to get at in my last post. Hadn't read those posts as of my last post, but yes, I agree that those posts are ignorant.
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Post by Kliquid on Aug 14, 2010 14:40:53 GMT -5
Christianity does. Better not build any churches around you. No it doesn't. God damn it. Do I really have to go find these quotes from the Bible again, where they clearly indicate that violence should be shed upon non-believers? Really? Can you just take me at face value on this one so I don't have to waste my time? Ugh. ----------------------------- Also, I watched the video you suggested on Islam, and there were quite a few things that I was unaware of in it. That said, the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not NOT crazy, murdering bungholes. I personally know a handful of Muslims, all of whom are very smart, kind, caring people. They want a place for worship just as much as anyone else, and they should be given that right.
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Post by Yeezy's Mullet: Team X Blades on Aug 14, 2010 14:42:13 GMT -5
God damn it. Do I really have to go find these quotes from the Bible again, where they clearly indicate that violence should be shed upon non-believers? Really? Can you just take me at face value on this one so I don't have to waste my time? Ugh. Where does it say that?
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Post by Kliquid on Aug 14, 2010 14:47:52 GMT -5
DEUTERONOMY 7
When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, [and] utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth.
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Post by Yeezy's Mullet: Team X Blades on Aug 14, 2010 15:10:20 GMT -5
DEUTERONOMY 7When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgapoopes, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, [and] utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth. Irrelavent sir. I'm almost certain that they're not in the context under which you claim. I'll have to do a little reading to verify that, but as for now I'll just say that I don't think that's what it ment. But what does make this irrelavent is that this is from the old testament and under the old covenant. Once Jesus was sacrificed for the sins of man, there was a new convenant set in place. It pretty much covers the duration of the new testament of the Bible. The new covenant/ testament actually tells of Jesus telling his deciple to shake the dust from their feet in regards to those who will not recieve them. That means to leave and go to the next one who will hear the word.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Aug 14, 2010 15:54:25 GMT -5
DEUTERONOMY 7When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgapoopes, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, [and] utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth. I'm just laughing at Girgapoopes. Literally made me lol.
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Post by Kliquid on Aug 14, 2010 16:23:23 GMT -5
Not irrelevant. And there are many, many other examples.
The point, however, is that just because a book says these things doesn't mean that people follow exactly what the book says.
While there are crazy, extremist Muslims; the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of Muslims, particularly in America, are not violent people whatsoever. To group all Muslims with terrorism is to group all Christians with the KKK. It's not reasonable.
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Post by Kliquid on Aug 14, 2010 16:24:24 GMT -5
I'm just laughing at Girgapoopes. Literally made me lol. Ahahahahaha. I didn't even notice. Awesome, though.
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Post by Yeezy's Mullet: Team X Blades on Aug 14, 2010 16:26:15 GMT -5
Not irrelevant. And there are many, many other examples. The point, however, is that just because a book says these things doesn't mean that people follow exactly what the book says. While there are crazy, extremist Muslims; the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of Muslims, particularly in America, are not violent people whatsoever. To group all Muslims with terrorism is to group all Christians with the KKK. It's not reasonable. You're right about that. I've never been a fan of grouping anyone unfairly.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2010 23:52:05 GMT -5
DEUTERONOMY 7When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgapoopes, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, [and] utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth. The pro-Judeo-Christian argument against this - which I don't necessarily hold to, but having an interest in theology, I enjoy the subject - here's the argument that would be made: The Israelites were to be the followers of YAHWEH (Hebrew God) in the pre-Jesus time period from Abraham to Jesus (about 2000 BC until the first century AD; a Calvinist Christian may even go so far as to claim that God knows before he creates a person whether that person's going to follow him or not, and the ones that he knew would follow him he made to be born as Israelites; the Hebrew text does describe instances where Israelites turn away from him and where non-Israelites follow him, but for the most part the Hebrew text deals with the physical nation of Israel), and YAHWEH knew that unless the Israelites attacked the other surrounding Bronze Age middle eastern nations, they themselves would be slaughtered first. Kind of a "kill them before they kill you mindset," same mindset used for any nation to declare war on another. If you want to argue that YAHWEH doesn't exist because the text refers to him telling the Israelites of old to declare war, then technically you don't even have to go that far. Look at all the heartache in the world; wars right and left, rapists, murderers, third world hunger, etc. Even if YAHWEH had not told the Israelites to take out the nations around them, you could argue he must not exist because if he was truly loving, he would stop all of those things from happening. The argument would then go on to state that the reason destruction exists in the world is because of Adam and Eve's original sin, and that atonement for sin can be found through the death and resurrection of the first century Jewish rabbi Yeshua bar Yosef, or Jesus, son of Joseph. I've gone back and forth with my religious views over the years, and I don't necessarily hold to Judeo-Christian fundamentalism, but there'd be your argument nevertheless from the people within those camps.
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Post by Kliquid on Aug 16, 2010 3:14:40 GMT -5
I'm sure there's rationale behind it, but the point kind of remains that there is very obvious violent messages in the Bible.
But much like Muslims, most Christians do not go around murdering people for being different than them.
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StingerSplash
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Give em' the Scorpion Death Drop.
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Post by StingerSplash on Aug 16, 2010 6:27:36 GMT -5
Here's my thoughts on the NYC Mosque.
Whether all Muslims are terrorists or just 5% of Muslims are terrorists, it's in bad taste to build an Islamic Mosque near Ground Zero. Constitutionally, they have every right to do it, and I'm not denying that. However, when some of the religion's teachings, (not necesarily the religion) itself, is to blame for over 3,000 deaths in one day in one of the most hainous attacks in our country's history, a monument to that religion should not be built anywhere relatively close.
Not saying that they can't legally do it, but if they're wanting to show the American people that they're not all terrorists and that they love America, they're going about it the wrong way.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 7:12:32 GMT -5
IF they want a mosque so much then they can GIT OUT.
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