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Post by miserere on Jan 9, 2011 0:56:28 GMT -5
The constitution, if used correctly, is there to protect the rights of people. For something that was written two centuries ago, it pretty well translates into today -- certainly better than most other similar documents. Always keep in mind that the constitution is not there to guarantee people THINGS or express the government's power. It's there to guarantee people personal liberty from the government. While guns are a hot-button issue today and have been for quite awhile, understand that the founding fathers made the constitution include the right to own guns as a way, again, to protect us from our own government. Looking at history, nearly every time that a powerful society has collapsed it has been because of too much government (kingdom / whatever) control. Thomas Jefferson himself warned against the government and its eventual desire to infringe upon the rights of free people. "A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference."
- Thomas Jefferson He also warned against the government tyranny and their usage of propaganda to scare us into submission against our better judgment. "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."
- Thomas Jefferson Do I like guns? No. Do I want people to get shot? No. Do I own a gun myself, or have a desire to own one? No. But it is my duty to understand that the overwhelming majority of people who own guns are not using them against other humans. To ban them on the premise that some bad people could own them is absolutely absurd when you consider the fact that most of these people do not LEGALLY own their guns in the first place. This was a terrific explanatory post and everything, Nick, but how do you explain the countries where guns ARE banned, and their violence levels -- at least via gunshot -- have dropped as a result? Is it all an anomaly or is there something more behind it? |
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Post by miserere on Jan 9, 2011 0:59:32 GMT -5
Also, I don't mean to mince hot-button issues here, but if guns are legal for the reason you gave, then why isn't pot legal? The overwhelming majority of people who use pot are not using it in a negative fashion. It just seems like this country's priorities are royally screwed up, where something so harmless as marijuana is banned, yet something that can actually hurt someone, like a gun, is perfectly cool.
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 16, 2024 0:32:46 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2011 1:15:04 GMT -5
I thought this thread was about the congresswoman who was shot, not the politics of gun control and pot. *rereads title* Guess not...  |
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Post by Tim of thee on Jan 9, 2011 1:21:27 GMT -5
smoking pot is not in the bill of rights
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Post by miserere on Jan 9, 2011 1:24:09 GMT -5
I thought this thread was about the congresswoman who was shot, not the politics of gun control and pot. *rereads title* Guess not... It's a discussion thread. Unless you'd rather us all say the same thing, over and over, than discuss this issue and the issues stemming from it, I'd calm it with the sarcasm, hot shot. Do you want a hundred replies just like that one? Is that what you enjoy reading on this general interest board? I'm gonna guess reading through pages upon pages of responses, each feigning some level of deeper sympathy, isn't why you registered here. Want to know why I registered here, some, sigh, nine years ago? Well, hold on, I'm about to tell you. OK, I registered here because I wanted to reply to threads, both those I agreed with and disagreed with. It's a lot more fun doing that because I'm offering my opinion and making a difference on the board instead of stunting a discussion by asking for there to be no discussion. But, hey, you'd rather us not discuss this at all, and clearly, as you are some sort of authority figure 'round these parts, I'd better hightail it on out of here and toe the company line with that generic, halfhearted reply everybody else offered up. Forgive me my aggression and interest for creating interesting discussion in this, a discussion thread on the general interest discussion board. |
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Post by miserere on Jan 9, 2011 1:27:16 GMT -5
smoking pot is not in the bill of rights Lest we keep citing that old thing, that didn't officially recognize women as equal citizens till like, 1920 or something. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2011 1:32:29 GMT -5
Well I guess I just got 'schooled.' ...
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 9, 2011 1:34:31 GMT -5
This was a terrific explanatory post and everything, Nick, but how do you explain the countries where guns ARE banned, and their violence levels -- at least via gunshot -- have dropped as a result? Is it all an anomaly or is there something more behind it? There certainly are countries where guns are banned and violence is lower, but most of those countries also have low drug problems and low violence problems in general. Look at our country. Just look at it. Violence is everywhere and MOST of it doesn't come in the form of guns. |
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Post by miserere on Jan 9, 2011 1:45:06 GMT -5
This was a terrific explanatory post and everything, Nick, but how do you explain the countries where guns ARE banned, and their violence levels -- at least via gunshot -- have dropped as a result? Is it all an anomaly or is there something more behind it? There certainly are countries where guns are banned and violence is lower, but most of those countries also have low drug problems and low violence problems in general. Look at our country. Just look at it. Violence is everywhere and MOST of it doesn't come in the form of guns. So it's best not to try anything at all? Not even try to reduce the violence by a tiny percentage? I guess I just don't see why we can't make efforts in certain areas. Even if the money spent only gets a few guns off the streets, it's still better money spent than on some war. Oh! Lightbulb moment. Take away all the guns here, and give them to the troops overseas! Brilliant. |
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Post by Halloween King on Jan 9, 2011 1:47:29 GMT -5
This was a terrific explanatory post and everything, Nick, but how do you explain the countries where guns ARE banned, and their violence levels -- at least via gunshot -- have dropped as a result? Is it all an anomaly or is there something more behind it? There certainly are countries where guns are banned and violence is lower, but most of those countries also have low drug problems and low violence problems in general. Look at our country. Just look at it. Violence is everywhere and MOST of it doesn't come in the form of guns. I have to disagree here. Mexico has STRICT anti gun laws. And also some drugs are legal as long as you consume them and have small quantities. And look at Mexico today. It is a nation under terror. The cartels control pretty much everything. People are Kidnapped and murdered every day for no real reasons. Mexico has become an EXTREMELY DANGEROUS and SCARY place to live. So please do not say that getting rid of guns will solve Voilence. People who want a gun will get one wether its legal or not. All you do by making them illegal is put honest people at a disadvantage. |
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Post by miserere on Jan 9, 2011 1:49:02 GMT -5
"Honest" people?
You'll believe anything.
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 16, 2024 0:32:46 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2011 1:52:21 GMT -5
Was a loved one of yours killed by a gunman?
If not, why are you so anti-gun?
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Post by miserere on Jan 9, 2011 1:55:59 GMT -5
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 9, 2011 1:56:15 GMT -5
This was a terrific explanatory post and everything, Nick, but how do you explain the countries where guns ARE banned, and their violence levels -- at least via gunshot -- have dropped as a result? Is it all an anomaly or is there something more behind it? There certainly are countries where guns are banned and violence is lower, but most of those countries also have low drug problems and low violence problems in general. Look at our country. Just look at it. Violence is everywhere and MOST of it doesn't come in the form of guns. Also, I don't mean to mince hot-button issues here, but if guns are legal for the reason you gave, then why isn't pot legal? The overwhelming majority of people who use pot are not using it in a negative fashion. It just seems like this country's priorities are royally screwed up, where something so harmless as marijuana is banned, yet something that can actually hurt someone, like a gun, is perfectly cool. Federally, pot shouldn't be illegal. State-wise, though, it can be because that kind of activity is *supposed to be* left up to the states. |
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 9, 2011 2:08:01 GMT -5
I have to disagree here. Mexico has STRICT anti gun laws. And also some drugs are legal as long as you consume them and have small quantities. And look at Mexico today. It is a nation under terror. The cartels control pretty much everything. People are Kidnapped and murdered every day for no real reasons. Mexico has become an EXTREMELY DANGEROUS and SCARY place to live. So please do not say that getting rid of guns will solve Voilence. People who want a gun will get one wether its legal or not. All you do by making them illegal is put honest people at a disadvantage. Thus me saying, "There are countries..." and not "All countries..." |
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Post by King Silva on Jan 9, 2011 2:41:12 GMT -5
When I first responded I only knew one person was dead [the congresswoman] but now it seems she is alive but 6 are dead including a judge and a child.
Sucks so much but I'm glad that bastard didn't kill themselves.
Hope they get justice!
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 9, 2011 2:44:24 GMT -5
The media is doing a great job of making constitutionalists sound like crazy, radical murderers.
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eddie eddie
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 17, 2009 17:54:26 GMT -5
Posts: 2,873
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Post by eddie eddie on Jan 9, 2011 4:59:38 GMT -5
here an obligatory post about guns in attempt to end this obligatory anti-gun discussion.
banning all guns is stupid. thats silly. thats unconstitutional. its an assault on our given freedom. some guns have uses outside of killing human beings. somes guns do not. automatic weapons and such are not used to kill dear. they're used to kill humans. well, you may say they're for protection. alright, sorry, they should be outright banned. a pistol will protect you just as well if you know how to use it. now, banning guns won't get rid of them. this fella used an illegal gun. well, maybe we could use the money we're spending on the war on drugs and the wars on innocent countries to fight illegal guns.
but now i will totally debase my entire argument.
what use are pistols when our evil tyrannical robot empiric government comes and invades our small towns? we're gonna need some bigger guns.
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Callum1993
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jul 21, 2010 13:30:03 GMT -5
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Callum1993 on Jan 9, 2011 6:42:33 GMT -5
Wow this is crazy. RIP to all those that died. The shooter must be one messed up s.o.b. I've heard that he listed "Mein Kampf" as one of his favourite books on his myspace page. Also to the banning guns argument it isn't really a valid win. Banning would mean lots more illegal black market dealing etc. I mean look at the craphole Mexico is.
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Post by slappy on Jan 9, 2011 9:36:40 GMT -5
Westboro Baptist Church has announced they will be protesting the funerals of those killed yesterday.
Among other things, this was part of their statement.
"WBC prays for your destruction--more shooters, more dead carcasses piling up, young, old, leader and commoner--all."
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