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Post by Mr. Orange on Jul 2, 2011 23:39:28 GMT -5
Chuck was a completely different situation. He got nearly KO'ed by Jardine, which is when I realized, he'll never be the same. Wanderlei won't get KO'ed by guys like Jardine, OR Franklin (as seen at UFC 99). MMA Math is funny, right? Leben gets beat by Bisping, Bisping loses to Wanderlei, and Leben KO's Wanderlei. This is why STYLES MAKE FIGHTS. If Wanderlei went in there a LITTLE more conservative, he probably could have knocked out Leben. Wanderlei goes out WHILE trying to knock guys out. Chuck just gets outclasses by guys. Ultimately, it's up to Wanderlei to decide what to do. He's a fighters fighter. He fights because he wants to give the fans something to remember, so you can't ever complain about him. His philosophy has ALWAYS been either get the KO, or get knocked out yourself. HUH?!? Check the facts. Chuck was dead even, if not winning the Franklin fight(broke Rich's arm, stunned Franklin a few times). He was dead even with Shogun(both got 1 takedown, even on the feet). He won round 1 with Rashad with the judges. Chuck getting outclassed makes ZERO sense, bro. He got beat clean by Jardine. Did you hear the shot Jardine landed on Chuck? That would have hurt ANYBODY. It was a stylistic fight that favored Jardine. And Rampage wiped the floor with him like 2003. I'll say that. How is it honestly different? Both guys have had their chins deteriorate rapidly. Both guys are getting beaten by guys they would have mauled(or at least beaten) in their prime. Wanderlei narrowly beat Bisping. He would have MAULED Bisping in his prime. Chuck would have beaten Franklin in 2010 if he had his chin. Now they're getting knocked out way more easily than in the past. Their fights are generally even before the finishing hit. They both end their night looking up at the lights. Sounds a lot alike to me. But this isn't about Liddell. He's retired. Maybe Wanderlei could have knocked Leben out. But what matters is who lands the better punch, and who lands it first. What happened is what counts, not "maybe". Leben walked through Wanderlei's shot like he always does with everybody. It takes a truck to put him down. Wanderlei was facefirst on the ground when Leben retaliated. I'm a HUGE Wanderlei fan. But I knew from DAY ONE he would get knocked clean by Leben, or Stann for that matter when he comes rushing in like he always does. The chin is simply not there anymore. Leben HIMSELF said he thought Silva's chin was sketchy. And that from another fighter, and not a fan. The layoff, the opponent, the piss poor gameplan and the chin were all detrimental in what we saw tonight. I guess I'm the only one who knew exactly that this would happen beyond a shadow of a doubt. That philosophy needs to be changed to "AVOID HIT OR I WILL BE FLAT" |
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Post by Mr. Orange on Jul 2, 2011 23:43:58 GMT -5
On the bright side, WHAT A FIGHT BY TITO. That Tito needs to show up more often!
That was Tito's first finish of an opponent not named Ken Shamrock since JUNE 2001!!! I heard that and was stunned. Great job done by Tito. He lives to fight another day.
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Post by James Hetfield on Jul 3, 2011 0:00:03 GMT -5
There are two Wanderlei's.
There is the strategic Wanderlei who fought Liddell, Franklin and Bisping, and there is the wreckless Wanderlei that fought in PRIDE, that we saw tonight. He thought he had Leben hurt, he was wrong. The more strategic Wanderlei would have been the better choice.
I may be a blind Wanderlei supporter, but I'm just calling it how I have seen Wanderlei's fights lately.
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Post by Overnight Sensation on Jul 3, 2011 1:37:16 GMT -5
Wanderlei needs to retire /disscussion.
If Tito was going to be forced to retire, Chuck WAS forced to retire...then Wanderlei needs to be FORCED to retire...lost 6 of his last 8...that says something.
Don't try to say "Oh there is 2 Wanderlei's" Because BOTH Wanderlei's have won 2 fights in his past 8.
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Post by Mr. Old School™ on Jul 3, 2011 2:23:27 GMT -5
Yeah, after losing that quickly to Chris Leben, I'd hate to say it, but I think Wandy's days are pretty much numbered. I don't even know who you would put him with next after suffering a defeat in 27 seconds....Someone really low in the rankings, that's for sure. Someone not even rated in the top 10....
There is only ONE Wanderlei Silva and he got crushed against Chris Leben. A 27 second loss...Man, that's a bad one...And as mention above, he lost 6 of his last 8 fights...That's not good.
I'd say Dana puts him in the "Tito boat" for his next fight and says if Wanderlei doesn't win his next fight, he'll either be released or told to retire.
It saddens me to see Wanderlei get punched out in 27 seconds...I think he's suffering from LCS....Liddell-Chin-Syndrome, which basically means he's suffered too many vicious knock-outs and his chin has been tagged too hard too often and he can't take a solid punch anymore.
I don't want to see Wanderlei lose another fight after seeing the beating he took tonight. I think that's it for him, I really do.
Even if he does fight again and wins, I would still like to see him hang up the gloves and call it a career. Go out on a high note in vicious "Axe Murderer" fashion, but after seeing tonight, man, I don't know if that's possible anymore....
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Post by SteveHulk on Jul 3, 2011 3:24:52 GMT -5
Damn... I like Leben and I'm really pleased for him - but it was horrible seeing Wanderlei KO'd like that. I do think all this retirement talk is a bit premature though... remember - this was his first fight back after a 17 month lay-off and Leben is a big puncher. And it's not as though Silva is continously getting KO'd (or even beaten) - he'd beaten Bisping in his last fight and looked good in the one before that too (against Franklin).... and Bisping and Franklin are both pretty highly ranked guys.
The best part of the whole event for me was seeing the "old" Tito back... man, I marked-out like a little kid when he did his classic "grave-digging" routine afterwards... ;D
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Post by Bartman on Jul 3, 2011 3:58:48 GMT -5
I predicted a TKO victory for Leben as well in the first round, but nothinggg like that. Such a shame. I actually hope them give Wandy one more fight. I mean, giving guys like Tito and Cro Cop one more shot, the same should be done for Wanderlei as well.
Great event, but man, the Tito fight left me stunned. Much respect to him for that, especially with his back against the wall. Somehow, I still feel like one more loss and he's out.
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Post by x513xkernal on Jul 3, 2011 4:10:50 GMT -5
I think I'm the only one who was excited to see Wandy get TKO'd...Granted I'm a huge Wanderlei fan, I'm just more of a Leben fan
As far as the game plan and which Wandy showed up, we didn't get to even see that. Obviously he rushed when he thought he had Leben hurt, and I don't even know if Leben is in his prime yet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2011 6:17:25 GMT -5
There are two Wanderlei's. There is the strategic Wanderlei who fought Liddell, Franklin and Bisping, and there is the wreckless Wanderlei that fought in PRIDE, that we saw tonight. He thought he had Leben hurt, he was wrong. The more strategic Wanderlei would have been the better choice. I may be a blind Wanderlei supporter, but I'm just calling it how I have seen Wanderlei's fights lately. He hurt Leben though, Chris said after the fight he couldn't remember getting hit. That Wand hit "the button" |
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Post by Mr. Old School™ on Jul 3, 2011 10:07:59 GMT -5
For those that may have missed them or just want to watch them again, here are the two main shockers of the night. Ryan Bader vs. Tito Ortiz and Wanderlei Silva vs. Chris Leben. Enjoy!!!
Man, that clip with Leben is probably the shortest fight clip Wandy has EVER been a part of....
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Jul 3, 2011 10:16:00 GMT -5
Everytime I watch a UFC event, I hate the judging system more and more.
Matt Wiman and Urijah Faber both got screwed on this night.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2011 10:20:59 GMT -5
The fight i'm looking forward to the most is Condit vs Kim. Condit is my favorite fighter, and I'm looking forward to seeing him get a win tonight. Well, obviously I was happy last night. I think it's time they throw Condit a top-5 fighter. He has definitely earned it. Maybe a fight with Kos or Fitch. I'm glad he got KO of the night. Very proud to see my favorite fighter dominating these fights. I was very surprised and impressed with the Tito fight. He wanted nothing more than to capture a win, and he went out there and got it. I don't know what's next for him, but I hope he starts fighting more now. He made Dana and everybody that doubted him (me included) eat their words. The Siver-Wiman decision was backwards in my opinion. I had it 29-28 Wiman, but I'm a big fan of Siver, so I won't complain too much. I think a fight between Guillard and Siver should be next. I think the winner of that fight deserves a shot at the belt (if they can ever get Maynard-Edgar settled). Wanderlai is going to have a pretty depressing birthday today. He looked like he was ready to put on a good show, and got caught with a few solid uppercuts. Leben is a win-loss-win-loss fighter, so I don't know if he deserves too big of a fight after this, but I'd like to see him fight someone like Maia or McGee (idk, those are just fights I'd like to see). The main event was very intense. I was impressed with the knockdowns that urijah got, and was surprised to see Cruz stand right back up. I haven't watched a lot of Cruz fights, so I didn't know exactly what to expect, but I ended up being very impressed. I thought the judges' scorecards were a little funny, it seems like they can never get the same score in a title fight. I had it scored 48-47 Cruz. I hope Faber doesn't get thrown another title fight for a while. I didn't think he deserved this one already, but I guess it's not really my decision. All in all, a great performance by both fighters. I loved this card, it was definitely one I would buy on DVD just to watch again. I loved every fight on the card, and thought everyone put on the best show they could. None of the fights were boring, and there wasn't a lot of stalling from anybody. |
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hammer
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Post by hammer on Jul 3, 2011 10:21:03 GMT -5
i was completely shitfaced last night, but i had it 29-28 siver and 48-48 in cruz/faber. ill run through them again in a little bit while im still sober, to see what i missed.
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hammer
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Post by hammer on Jul 3, 2011 10:28:00 GMT -5
guillard needs to step up higher than siver in my book. give him pettis.
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hammer
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Post by hammer on Jul 3, 2011 11:10:58 GMT -5
"ill tell ya what mike, i dont care who wins this, i just wanna see it again"
"from your lips, to gods ears, joe"
thats gotta mean dana already has the 3rd chapter lined up, correct?
rounds 1 and 3 were absurdly close. infact every round was completely close, though i tended to favor cruz. i had it 4-1 for cruz, but if you switch 1 and 3 to faber, which you very well couldve, its 3-2 faber.
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Jul 3, 2011 11:36:58 GMT -5
This has nothing to do with my biased towards Faber, but I have no idea how Dominic Cruz won this fight.
Cruz was knocked down 3 times, in 3 different rounds due to strikes. When knocked down, that means the fight is in true danger of being over. Now, while only 2 of them looked to be significant (and Faber should have capitalized, but didn't and that was a HUGE mistake), that still means Faber put him in danger of losing. The 3rd knockdown looked to be a bit of momentum on Cruz coming in and Faber catching him just right. I still count that as a knock down, but in no way did Cruz looked like he got rocked enough to be in complete danger.
Meanwhile, what did Cruz do to win that fight? Leg kicks, jabs, caught him with a few good punches and non controlled take downs in which Faber was never on the ground for more than 10 seconds. He was NEVER in danger during that fight and Cruz caused absolutely no damage to him at all.
This is why the scoring system is not only flawed, but an absolute joke. Meaningless take downs (in this case, not even controlled at all) that result in nothing but a stall in the striking and have no barring on the fight at all, shouldn't be scored for points. You should earn more points from defending the take down, as you're keeping your opponent from achieving this goal. Apparently now leg kicks, jabs to keep your distance and a few shots earned more points than THREE knock downs. That's embarrassing.
New judges need to be appointed and soon. I would even have past MMA fighters at the table, at least 1. Randy Couture would make a great judge for fights. This is getting out of hand lately.
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Arik Cannon
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Post by Arik Cannon on Jul 3, 2011 12:07:36 GMT -5
I thought Wiman won but I would have to watch it again just to confirm my belief. Either way it was a classless poor sport thing of Wiman to do by just walking out. I hated When Forrest did that crap also
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Post by Overnight Sensation on Jul 3, 2011 13:16:23 GMT -5
This has nothing to do with my biased towards Faber, but I have no idea how Dominic Cruz won this fight. Cruz was knocked down 3 times, in 3 different rounds due to strikes. When knocked down, that means the fight is in true danger of being over. Now, while only 2 of them looked to be significant (and Faber should have capitalized, but didn't and that was a HUGE mistake), that still means Faber put him in danger of losing. The 3rd knockdown looked to be a bit of momentum on Cruz coming in and Faber catching him just right. I still count that as a knock down, but in no way did Cruz looked like he got rocked enough to be in complete danger. Meanwhile, what did Cruz do to win that fight? Leg kicks, jabs, caught him with a few good punches and non controlled take downs in which Faber was never on the ground for more than 10 seconds. He was NEVER in danger during that fight and Cruz caused absolutely no damage to him at all. This is why the scoring system is not only flawed, but an absolute joke. Meaningless take downs (in this case, not even controlled at all) that result in nothing but a stall in the striking and have no barring on the fight at all, shouldn't be scored for points. You should earn more points from defending the take down, as you're keeping your opponent from achieving this goal. Apparently now leg kicks, jabs to keep your distance and a few shots earned more points than THREE knock downs. That's embarrassing. New judges need to be appointed and soon. I would even have past MMA fighters at the table, at least 1. Randy Couture would make a great judge for fights. This is getting out of hand lately. My sentiments exactly. I am honestly Sick of seeing "Point Strikers" Look who had the damage after the fight...Cruz or Faber. |
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Post by Kliquid on Jul 3, 2011 13:33:18 GMT -5
I don't understand how one judge gave it 50-45 for Cruz.
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 3, 2011 13:56:18 GMT -5
i don't think Faber did enough to win the belt...it was a great fight though...
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