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Post by twinn on Apr 21, 2011 16:13:34 GMT -5
Boy, did Derrick Rose get overrated quickly by the casual fan. I live in Chicago and have followed the Bulls since you were in diapers and Horace didn't need his goggles, but throw stones at people you don't know. Dummy. Besides, when you win MVP at age 22 you have the right to be overrated by anyone. BOOM
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Post by ET had AIDS on Apr 21, 2011 17:11:12 GMT -5
I live in Chicago and have followed the Bulls since you were in diapers and Horace didn't need his goggles, but throw stones at people you don't know. Dummy. Besides, when you win MVP at age 22 you have the right to be overrated by anyone. BOOM H5! Really, I didn't want to sound crass or like a jerk... but people just assume the Bulls' entire fanbase consists of residents outside of Chicago? I've been toiling for the past 11 or 12 years and watching mediocre basketball until Thib arrived and Rose peaked a lot sooner than I expected, and at a higher ceiling than I ever could've imagined. I sat and watched through the Cartwright, Floyd years, and everything inbetween and before... I realize the city was very fortunate to have MJ and the six titles he brought, since we haven't seen anything other than one Hawks title (after YEARS of a terrible franchise under the father's ownership) and a Sox title no one really mentions anymore. I think it's fair if people want to jump on the Bulls' and Rose's bandwagon. This is one instance where I'm not going to be a stuck-up hometowner and tell other people to cheer for their own teams... No, the Bulls play a fun game to watch. Thibdeau has worked wonders, but anyone who doesn't realize that Rose has taken a step +15 this season has not watched the Bulls enough. They're enjoyable to watch and Rose is one of the most dynamic players in the league. Players like that are fun to watch. I can understand why anyone would jump on his bandwagon, and I've watched him since he was at Memphis and passed on the Illini's recruiting efforts (honestly, the fact that he stiffed us and we were on his top-3 always bothered me until the Bulls wound up with him... the rest is history). The thing is, I would wager to guess most people had not seen the Bulls play much before this season. We were not a well-coached team under Del Negro. Simple as that. I believe if we had gone out and gotten a LeBron/Wade/Carmello it very well may have hindered Rose's development, too. In hindsite, I was hoping we landed one of the big FAs (who wasn't?!). But I couldn't be happier with how it has worked out. Actually, I could. If we somehow landed Dwight over the offseason-- title this year or otherwise-- I'd be happier. But I like the state of our roster right now, and the fact that everyone knows their place and they are an actual team. I've been a Bulls fan my whole life. The only contradiction this ever really included was the fact that I liked Reggie more than Michael growing up, but that was more because Reggie was probably my favorite athelete when I was a kid/teen than it was me actually liking the Pacers (although Rik Smits and Dale & Antonio Davis were also awesome). I never would root for Reggie over MJ in a playoff game.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Apr 21, 2011 17:18:33 GMT -5
The Celtics should be out rebounding the Knicks, even without Shaq. I have never understood why this team does not rebound....Garnett, O'Neal, Baby, even Rondo are decent to good rebounds, but guys just beat them for balls, its maddening.
I think the Celtics can beat the Heat, they can beat the Lakers, they can beat the Magic.
Chicago worries me though. I am not proclaiming Boston vs Chicago but I think the Celtics can handle the others....I think
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Post by ET had AIDS on Apr 21, 2011 17:22:15 GMT -5
The Celtics should be out rebounding the Knicks, even without Shaq. I have never understood why this team does not rebound....Garnett, O'Neal, Baby, even Rondo are decent to good rebounds, but guys just beat them for balls, its maddening. I think the Celtics can beat the Heat, they can beat the Lakers, they can beat the Magic. Chicago worries me though. I am not proclaiming Boston vs Chicago but I think the Celtics can handle the others....I think Ditto only reverse the teams a bit. I think the Bulls can handle the Heat, I'm not too worried about the Lakers at this moment in time (if it comes to that, or LA even gets that far, who knows really), and the Hawks/Magic don't worry me one bit. The Celtics make me nervous. That's the one team I do worry about, but the same time I'd love a Bos/Chi series. Especially since my dad is pretty much a Celtics fan since childhood. Bickering with him is fun
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Post by becausethenight on Apr 21, 2011 18:01:45 GMT -5
Boy, did Derrick Rose get overrated quickly by the casual fan. I live in Chicago and have followed the Bulls since you were in diapers and Horace didn't need his goggles, but throw stones at people you don't know. Dummy.Besides, when you win MVP at age 22 you have the right to be overrated by anyone. Contradiction in back to back clauses... that has got to be some kind of record. I'm probably older than you are but whatever dude. I don't even think Rose is a top 10 player in the league but I am happy for you as a Bulls fan.
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Post by twinn on Apr 21, 2011 18:11:30 GMT -5
If this thread gets locked too I'm gonna be hella pissed.... HELLA
P.S.
I just want to mention the fact that I am not a bandwagoner.
GO BULLS
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Post by Cult Member BriGuy on Apr 21, 2011 18:16:52 GMT -5
I'm really enjoying this Bulls team. They are a fun group to watch and seem to have more personality. Like you said, the older teams were poorly coached. In the last 5-6 years it seemed like we always were in position to sign a big FA to go along with our young group of players.
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Post by ET had AIDS on Apr 21, 2011 18:28:48 GMT -5
I live in Chicago and have followed the Bulls since you were in diapers and Horace didn't need his goggles, but throw stones at people you don't know. Dummy.Besides, when you win MVP at age 22 you have the right to be overrated by anyone. Contradiction in back to back clauses... that has got to be some kind of record. I'm probably older than you are but whatever dude. I don't even think Rose is a top 10 player in the league but I am happy for you as a Bulls fan. Who is better? I'd like to see your top-10 list that discludes the league's MVP on the team with the best record in the league. Just curious. Wondering who (outside of 3 or 4 names) you can type up to make this post sound any less stupid. And the diapers thing was a joke. The point is, I've followed the Bulls my entire life and been through the ups and downs. Just because Rose is popular doesn't disgrace anything he's done as a player thus far, and his improvements this year have been day and night (and I agree, he wasn't a top-10 player-- until this year-- where his improvements came in buckets).
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Post by ET had AIDS on Apr 21, 2011 18:31:04 GMT -5
If this thread gets locked too I'm gonna be hella pissed.... HELLA P.S. I just want to mention the fact that I am not a bandwagoner. GO BULLS It won't get locked, I wasn't trying to provoke with that guy. I was half-kidding and a little befuddled as to what he has against DRose, who is probably the biggest breath of fresh air the NBA has seen in a league with divas like LeBron. He's humble, classy, and the obvious... an incredible talent. If he wins MVP and the Bulls do win the title, I hope some people are willing to eat crow. The Bulls team is very good as a whole, but it is evident who assumes the role of leader when the game is on the line. Rose takes over and is a closer. He can only get better unless he throws himself around too much and breaks down, but there's been no signs of that so far.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Apr 21, 2011 18:36:45 GMT -5
Am I crazy to see Derrick Rose as more of a hybrid PG/SG? You rank on stats or whatever, hes better than Chris Paul, but as a floor general, the best PG is still Paul correct with Rose as maybe the better player?
If that makes sense
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Post by ET had AIDS on Apr 21, 2011 18:37:32 GMT -5
I'm really enjoying this Bulls team. They are a fun group to watch and seem to have more personality. Like you said, the older teams were poorly coached. In the last 5-6 years it seemed like we always were in position to sign a big FA to go along with our young group of players. Definitely. And the biggest blessing in disguise is we didn'tsign a hole in the offense like Joe Johnson, or gut our team for a ball-demanding Carmello Anthony. Boozer was a nice piece. I won't lie, I questioned it-- I didn't like that we got stuck with Boozer & Kyle Korver while Miami acquired Bosh, LeBron, & Mike Miller. But the Bulls really are 4-deep. I can't say that about the Heat right now, or the Magic, or the Hawks. I can say that about the Celtics, MAYBE Lakers and Spurs, but I'm not sure. Bulls foursome of Rose, Deng, Boozer and Noah vs. Rondo, Allen, Pierce and Garnett would be a great playoff series. I feel those are the two best teams in the NBA right now, with all due respect to Miami as they are playing great too...
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Post by twinn on Apr 21, 2011 18:39:15 GMT -5
I was also upset that we had to "settle" for Boozer and Korver, but it absolutely COULD NOT have worked out any better
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Post by ET had AIDS on Apr 21, 2011 18:40:17 GMT -5
Am I crazy to see Derrick Rose as more of a hybrid PG/SG? You rank on stats or whatever, hes better than Chris Paul, but as a floor general, the best PG is still Paul correct with Rose as maybe the better player? If that makes sense It does Ralpho. I told my friend lastnight, Paul is still a better "playmaker" in the sense that he can find the hole. Rose reminds me of DWade, with a different build and more speed. I agree that he is like a SG in a PGs body, but he plays so strong and goes up and under everybody that he's almost impossible to stop once he makes his move to the hoop. Chris Paul very well be a better floor general still. Rose can be sloppy at times too, I won't deny that one bit. 6 turnovers in game 2-- and he had a game earlier in the year where he tripledoubled on 10 turnovers. Point is, he can get a little crazy and out of control with the ball, but that's also how he succeeds. So I'm fine with it. I agree with you there. I think Rose is a better player overall, one of the top-5 in the league for sure, but Paul is a better floor general. Not to say he can finish or close out games like Rose though. It's a grey area really, but I understand what you mean.
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Post by twinn on Apr 21, 2011 18:55:49 GMT -5
Wow these goddamn refs suck right now
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Post by becausethenight on Apr 21, 2011 18:56:00 GMT -5
Contradiction in back to back clauses... that has got to be some kind of record. I'm probably older than you are but whatever dude. I don't even think Rose is a top 10 player in the league but I am happy for you as a Bulls fan. Who is better? I'd like to see your top-10 list that discludes the league's MVP on the team with the best record in the league. Just curious. Wondering who (outside of 3 or 4 names) you can type up to make this post sound any less stupid. And the diapers thing was a joke. The point is, I've followed the Bulls my entire life and been through the ups and downs. Just because Rose is popular doesn't disgrace anything he's done as a player thus far, and his improvements this year have been day and night (and I agree, he wasn't a top-10 player-- until this year-- where his improvements came in buckets). I'll qualify this list by giving my definition of what makes a guy a great player: if I had one season to try to win a championship and had to build a team around one single guy, who would I choose? Now if you disagree with that criteria, that's absolutely fine. Rose has had a great season, and will likely win the MVP, but I don't think he is a better guy to build around than these guys: - Dwight Howard
- LeBron
- Wade
- Kobe
- Durant
- Chris Paul
- Deron Williams
- Dirk Nowitzki
- Steve Nash
- Rajon Rondo
Like I said, feel free to disagree but over the past 2-3 years I think each of those guys has been markedly better than Rose. I won't go point-by-point on any of them because I feel like that would quickly turn into bickering, but I think those guys would get the nod for me over Rose. He's right there in that next tier with guys like Pau Gasol, Melo, Stoudemire, etc but I think those other guys are better. Rose had a better season than most of those guys and will probably win the MVP, which is fine, but I don't think he's a top-5 player or the best PG in basketball. And that's basically what I hear from the common fan (especially Chicagoans, but not you in particular). He might get there someday but I don't think he's there yet. You're absolutely free to disagree with every word I said though. One man's whiskey....
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Apr 21, 2011 19:20:24 GMT -5
In a vacuum, maybe Durant, Paul and Williams could have a case be made over Rose.
If you take out age/contracts, Id take Kobe, Lebron, Wade and hell maybe even KG or Nash over Rose.
But right now, I'd probably go Lebron, Durant, Rose, Paul, Howard.
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Nash
Main Eventer
True join date = May 2006
Joined on: Apr 8, 2010 14:48:43 GMT -5
Posts: 1,695
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Post by Nash on Apr 21, 2011 19:33:11 GMT -5
Ehh I respect your opinion man, but I dont think think theres any way most people take a 37 year old player on the decline of his career over Rose. Rondo or Williams really dont measure up at all in my opinion, snd Melo should be in there...the others you can make a case for. God damn my school for not having NBA TV Gotta listen to it on the radio with the nba.com tv companion lol
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Post by twinn on Apr 21, 2011 19:38:59 GMT -5
Don't you get CSN??
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Post by user9327 on Apr 21, 2011 19:46:25 GMT -5
Rose has been in the middle of Chicago's playoff success over the last couple seasons. He's shown up in the playoffs even in defeat.
He's done it with young guys around him and with guys that weren't all stars.
Ditto on Chris Paul, LeBron and to a lesser extent Dwight Howard.
Whether we want to admit it or not, Durant has a tremendous amount of help to lessen the load. He also doesn't have to hold the ball to insure a good shot for his team.
Dirk Nowitski and Rajon Rondo being on any list right now near Derrick Rose is atrocious. Dirk's had more help around him while losing to lower seeds than any player in history and Rondo currently isn't even drawing a defender and is a big reason why the Celtics lost in the Finals last season. Dirk also doesn't have to handle the ball if he doesn't want to and has consistently had bench help (6th man of the year bench help)... bench help is huge while talking about superstars.
Put it this way... you put Derrick Rose on the Celtics right now and I'm not sure they lose a game. Think about having to guard Derrick Rose with Ray Allen and Paul Pierce around him... then there's Garnett.
I mean did you see the game the other night? It was Melo and the D-League almost stealing one IN BOSTON. That was Bill Walker, Anthony Carter and Jared Jefferies out there and absolutely no Center matching up against 4 Boston All Stars. If that's the product Rondo is pushing with 4 all stars then I shutter to picture what it would be like on a normal team. The guy doesn't even draw his own defender!!!
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Post by twinn on Apr 21, 2011 19:48:12 GMT -5
JEFF FOSTER!!! What a dirty mother er.... The Bulls better grow some balls and start hammering these a ssholes right back
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