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Post by Iron Man on Feb 13, 2008 23:27:14 GMT -5
This is just a discussion on something a little different. In YOU'RE opinon, who do you think was a better wrestler Bret Hart or Ric Flair? Not talking about drawing, not talking about promos, or whatever, but in the ring. Who did you enjoy more?
I haven't seen much of Flair's really old stuff but I did enjoy him in WCW from the early 90's, but me being the WWF mark that I am, I gotta say Bret Hart. Only because I have seen alot of Hart's stuff that I enjoy.
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Post by fallenhero on Feb 14, 2008 1:47:16 GMT -5
Bret Hart. Bret didn't need promo skills, nor did he need to be carried to every match he was ever in that was worth a watch.
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redypiper
Main Eventer
bravery over timidity
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Post by redypiper on Feb 14, 2008 2:15:19 GMT -5
in Flair's prime when the alternative was Hulkamania it was awesome to watch what Flair was doing. Bret's prime didn't have such a diverse force going against him. so it's tough to say. when i was young Flair was the man and Bret was a tag wrestler.
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Post by Markw on Feb 14, 2008 10:33:14 GMT -5
Bret Hart
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Post by fallenhero on Feb 14, 2008 11:44:27 GMT -5
in Flair's prime when the alternative was Hulkamania it was awesome to watch what Flair was doing. Bret's prime didn't have such a diverse force going against him. so it's tough to say. when i was young Flair was the man and Bret was a tag wrestler. Bret changed his style to fit the style of his opponent. Flair never did that.
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Post by Quanthor on Feb 14, 2008 15:48:30 GMT -5
Flair is a rather predictable wrestler, Bret is more versatile and can pretty much do everything.
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Treball
Mid-Carder
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Post by Treball on Feb 14, 2008 17:36:02 GMT -5
It's probably because I'm from Calgary, so he's got the hometown bias. I have followed Bret's career a bit more than Flair, (we didn't get any NWA or WCW stuff for a long time) so I gotta go with Bret. Flair usually bores me. Granted Bret's arsenal isn't a tonne more than Flair's 4 moves, he seems to entertain me lot more. Maybe if Flair had retired a bit earlier instead of having his last run here the only thing I can remember.
Knife-edge chop³, beg off opponent, do that flippy thing over the turnbuckle, get caught on the top rope, do the front face fall, get the figure-4 reversed. That's pretty much how every match with Flair I've seen goes. To be fair Bret's aren't a whole lot different. I'm pretty sure I'm just being bias.
I know all about why Flair is top notch with everyone, but I just can't get interested in him at all. For instance, the Flair 3 disc dvd set that came out a while ago, I still haven't finished watching it all. I've had it since it came out. The Bret one I finished up in no time. I guess it's because I was exposed more to Bret and his opponents then Flair and his contemporaries. 10 years ago, Ole Anderson could have punched me in the face and I still wouldn't know who he was, but I can spot Bad News Allen from a mile away.
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Post by Lennon on Feb 14, 2008 22:10:04 GMT -5
I'm a huge fan of both....But Flair is my all time favorite wrestler....So I'm going with him.
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Post by WalterF on Feb 14, 2008 23:17:17 GMT -5
Both were among the very creme de la creme in their prime, but Bret was a bit better at being more diverse in his in-ring storytelling. He was also more of a technician.
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Post by ThugSuperstar on Feb 14, 2008 23:51:04 GMT -5
No doubt, Bret Hart. I didn't really grow up watching Flair, but the only matches I really enjoyed watching him in were against Steamboat and Sting...maybe some of his stuff with Dusty, too, but that's about it. I thought Bret could make a star out of anybody and always came up with new things in his matches. If you've seen one Ric Flair match, you've pretty much seen them all.
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Post by hbkjason on Feb 15, 2008 3:59:38 GMT -5
Bret without a shadow of a doubt. LIke someone else said Bret changed his style depending on the guy he was wrestling just look at King of the Ring 1993 Bret does not get no where near the credit he desreves for what he did on that PPV. I have never gotten into Flair and I am talking about since the 80's I just found his matches pretty boring.
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Post by lugerfan1 on Feb 17, 2008 3:55:25 GMT -5
Gonna have to say it's close, but Flair. I'm not gonna call anyone out because this is all matter of opinion, but I'll try and give some defense to some of the things Flair is being accused of. Some say that Flair wrestled the same match a lot. This is true, but he had some very different matches as well. Watch him wrestle a guy like Sting or Luger, it's similar. Both are big muscular guys who do a lot of power moves, so Flair sells that. Now watch a match with he and Steamboat, it's totally different because of the style of the match. Flair always wrestled different depending on who he wrestled. Flair did a lot of the same moves? Yeah, so does everyone. Flair always did a kneedrop, a flip over the ropes, ect. But Bret Hart usually did a lot of the same moves. This includes missing a move in the turnbuckle and hitting chest first. Anytime he did that or Michaels did his half flip and came back down I always though of Flair. Also, Bret often had the same comeback. Backbreaker, come off 2nd rope, ect. Just saying...... And Flair never had to be carried, still doesn't most of the time. Flair wrestled a lot of guys in the 80's and early 90's considered average and made them look like stars. Neither did Bret. It was implied way above me that Flair has to be carried, which couldn't be further from the truth. I really like Bret Hart too. I just think Flair was a little better. And if you get bored watching Ric Flair you truly don't appreciate wrestling.
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Dwight
Main Eventer
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Post by Dwight on Feb 17, 2008 11:05:57 GMT -5
Bret is and always will be my all time personal favorite. So call it a bias if you desire, but I honestly feel he was the better performer. The points have all been made but let me just add another. Bret is one of two (the other being Shawn Michaels) that could have a decent to great match with ANYone. Give him someone with talent like Michaels and he'll tear the roof off. Give him someone that isnt technically sound like Diesel, and he would make him have a great match. Bret is the only man whose matches' never bore me. Even the ones with Bob Backlund were still decent. The only match that comes to mind that I thought "man what the " was his match at WM XI. And well...he didn't make the stupid match.
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Post by moogie101 on Feb 27, 2008 11:43:27 GMT -5
For me it has to be Ric Flair
Yeah Bret Hart was a very solid in ring performer but he for me seemed quite rigid in his moveset, especially his finishing routine which for me always took away from the ending.
Ric Flair however in his prime was qualiy, whether it was a hour classic with Steamboat or a wild brawl with Terry Funk or the violence of a War Games.
Easy looking at Flair nowadays to dismiss him but I still believe that in his prime he was the best in ring performer this industry has ever seen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2008 14:30:49 GMT -5
I grew up watching Bret as a kid and even though I didn't judge wrestlers on great matches, Bret's always entertained me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2008 15:37:06 GMT -5
Bret for sure! Flair's matches can be repetitive at times. When Bret Hart wrestled Razor Ramon, Curt Henning, and Bam Bam Bigalow at KOTR 93, did you notice how the matches were all different? All of Flair's matches throughout his career have been kind of similar.
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Post by k5 on Feb 27, 2008 22:15:14 GMT -5
flair could sell his opponent much better than hart could, but hart was the beleivable technician and was a very talented wrestler...so ofcourse bret.
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Pope Kiril I
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We Choose to Be called by Our Own Name Kiril
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Post by Pope Kiril I on Feb 29, 2008 1:49:32 GMT -5
I would be likely to say that this is like comparing Apples to Oranges. While both Flair and Hart are among the tops in Professional Wrestling you really learn very different lessons from both individuals. From Flair, you would undoubtably learn a great deal about Promos working the crowd and selling but interms of Moves he is usually defensive and alway a singles competitor he sticks to the moves that will win him the match and put butts in the seats he also watches his opponent he is at his best though when his Tricks and promos tick his opponent off enough for him to capitalize and win.
However, I guess interms of when I am learning things or studying old tapes to use in my own matches, I would probably be more likely to pull out a Bret Hart Tape. Ljn dude said it best in using the KOTR as an Example none ( or at least not that many) of his matches were the same and the fact that he just kept learning and perfecting moves past what his Father taught him and also making a very stable transition from Tag team to Singles wrestling one more thing is that you always take something from a Hart Match a prime example would be that prior to Michaels wrestling Hart did he ever use a Sharpshooter?.
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Post by carly1988 on Feb 29, 2008 13:07:01 GMT -5
i dont think its fair to judge a wrestler by their "wrestling skills" alone. Flair and Hart are two of my favorite all time wrestlers. Hands down I will go to my grave believing that Flair is the ALL TIME GREATEST professional wrestler ever. Nothing will ever change my mind on that. Flair and Hart are both neck and neck but Flair could always take it to that next level. Flair could go an hour with Rhodes and then the next night fight in Wargames. Hart never really did that.......Top 5 All time...
5)Dusty Rhodes 4)Bret Hart 3)Hulk Hogan 2)Great Muta 1)Ric Flair
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