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Post by Kliquid on May 19, 2011 3:56:44 GMT -5
UFC 131 Fight Card: Is Shane Carwin vs Junior Dos Santos a Better Fight?UFC fans got terrible news last week when it was learned that Brock Lesnar would be replaced by Shane Carwin after dropping out of his scheduled UFC 131 fight with Junior dos Santos due to another bout with diverticulitis. While Lesnar dropping out of the fight will certainly hurt the buyrate bottom line for the UFC, one could make the case that the main event of UFC 131 is actually better now. I know what you’re thinking—Shane Carwin lost to Brock Lesnar in his last fight, so how could Carwin vs. Dos Santos be better than Lesnar vs. Dos Santos? But remember, it’s not necessarily the rankings of the fighters that matter. As they always say, “styles make fights.” At UFC 131, it will have been almost a year since the last time we saw Shane Carwin step into a UFC cage. 12-0 at the time with all 12 wins coming by way of knockout or submission, Carwin was already the UFC Interim Heavyweight Champion and looked to be on a warpath toward the official UFC Heavyweight Championship. But it was Brock Lesnar, who was coming off of his first bout with diverticulitis, who stopped the Colorado native’s undefeated streak in its tracks. Now a year older and a year wiser, Carwin was scheduled to fight UFC newcomer Jon Olav Einemo at UFC 131 before the opportunity to fight dos Santos arose. Though no fights in MMA are a slam-dunk, this certainly looked like an attempt to get Carwin back in the win column against a 35-year old fighter with questionable standup skills. Now lined up to face a fighter who mirrors his 12-1 career record, Shane Carwin will need to significantly change his training regiment as he prepares for the event. Jon Olav Einemo is an absolute wizard on the ground while Junior dos Santos has spent about as little time on the ground in his MMA career as has anyone in the sport. That said, dos Santos poses a significantly bigger challenge in the stand-up game, as he may possess some of the best technical MMA boxing skills of any heavyweight. Dos Santos has won eight of his 12 fights by way of knockout, including memorable highlight-reel knockouts against Stefan Struve, Fabricio Werdum, Gilbert Yvel and Gabriel Gonzaga. A member of the Black House MMA team, Junior dos Santos works regularly with the likes of Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo and Lyoto Machida, along with a host of other top talents in the world; many of whom are among the very best strikers in their divisions. Dos Santos is no exception. Months ago, I would’ve laughed at anyone who suggested that training with Steven Seagal at Black House would be an advantage for dos Santos, but two crazy front kicks to the face from Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida later, and I’d now be eating my words. It still seems crazy on the surface, but there may actually be some legitimacy to the hype. Regardless, the UFC 131 main event will feature two big-time strikers who have the ability to knockout anyone in the sport, which could very well lead to a standup war the likes of which is rarely seen in MMA, with two fighters who may never even look to bring the fight to the ground. While the jiu-jitsu fan in me wants to shake my fist at this kind of technique, I know that the overwhelming majority of fans are looking for the big knockout to tell their friends about the next day. They may cheer a beautiful transition on the ground or a nice submission, but those things are rarely remembered when fans talk about the “best fights ever.” I’m always reminded of the standup war at The Ultimate Fighter 1 finale, when Stephan Bonnar and Forrest Griffin fought in an epic battle to determine who would be the victor and earn himself a UFC contract. While Griffin won the fight, many fans will always remember this war as one that helped get them more excited about the sport, or even expose them to the sport in the first place. It wasn’t the most technical battle and it was fought on the feet practically the entire time, but this fight is one that is still talked about now over six years after it happened. Shane Carwin vs. Junior dos Santos is sure to be a more technical battle than that was, but it does have the potential to have the same type of impact for fans. So don’t tune out just because Brock Lesnar’s name is no longer on the marquee. If Carwin has worked on his cardio enough to last the full three rounds without gassing like he did in the second round of his fight with Lesnar, we may actually be looking at a potential Fight of the Year candidate in the main event at UFC 131.
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Post by Swarm on May 19, 2011 4:57:42 GMT -5
In some ways yes, in some ways no, I believe.
With Lesnar, you had a superior wrestler to Shane Carwin with a lot of heart, a good chin (in the sense that even though he doesn't mentally react well to taking punches, he seems to be able to take a whole lot of them from really heavy handed guys without going to sleep), faster, and with undoubtedly better cardio. With that said, his stand-up game has significant holes and as mentioned before, he doesn't seem to react very wisely when getting punched in the face. So looking at the fight with Dos Santos on paper, he posed a significant threat in being able to move in quickly, use his strength and superior wrestling, take the fight to the ground, and keep it there. From top position, Brock's shown at worst to be able to positionally dominate a fight ala the Heath Herring fight, and at best decimate guys with ground and pound ala the Frank Mir fight. However on the flip side, if Dos Santos can keep the fight on the feet or at least get back to his feet once getting taken down, his advantage on the feet is so vast that Brock would likely get eaten alive.
With Carwin, you have someone who is likely stronger than Brock with versatile boxing skills, being able to land with serious power in the pocket as well as in clinch range, still very good wrestling and serious ground and pound. However he's also shown to be somewhat slow and his cardio has to still be suspect after not making it through half a round before completely gassing out. In a fight with Dos Santos, he has the traditional "puncher's chance" in that should he land on Dos Santos on the feet, it could spell a lot of trouble for him. He also has wrestling advantage and his ground and pound, like I said before, is really devastating. With that said, Dos Santos is much faster and technically superior to Carwin on the feet which in turn is going to give Carwin less openings to connect on the feet. Having said that, as far as the wrestling aspect is concerned, I don't believe the odds of Carwin taking Dos Santos down and keeping him there are as good as Lesnar doing so, though it's definitely arguable that if Carwin gets him down and keeps him down, he could possibly take greater advantage of it than Brock due to his power. With that said, if Carwin's cardio can't hold up and we're talking him having one round where he's at his best, inherently the odds of him doing any of what he can do to JDS is slimmer than the odds of Brock doing any of what he can do.
So ultimately, as I see it, it's a different fight but competitively, I don't believe Carwin has a greater or worse chance of beating JDS than Brock did. I just see it as him having more of an edge on the feet and less of an edge in the wrestling. Having said all that, I'm picking Carwin to win (I was picking Brock as well) just by nature of I think he's going to be able to push JDS against the fence and from there, he can either land some nasty uppercuts in tight, a big right on the break, or take JDS down and work his GnP. Either way, this fight is going to be won by Carwin on the fence.
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Post by kurtangleisgod on May 19, 2011 15:19:36 GMT -5
This fight could determine the true potential of Carwin's career. If Dos Santos beats him, it's going to raise questions if Carwin will ever be able to do anything besides KOing an opponent. The man needs to get some batter conditioning, and he needs to learn to not punch himself out in the first round
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 16, 2024 6:33:16 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2011 20:22:55 GMT -5
I'm excited to see this fight. It will be interesting to see the conditioning of Carwin after the gas-out in the Lesnar fight. If he can still bring heavy strikes into the fight, and keep from gassing again, we will probably see a successful night for Carwin.
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Post by SteveHulk on May 19, 2011 21:39:57 GMT -5
Interesting article... I think it's about the same level of fight as Dos Santos Vs Brock - it doesn't have that whole Lesnar "event" feel to it though, so won't do the same business-wise. I'm actually really interested to see if Dos Santos can withstand the power or Carwin during the first round... he may have gassed-out against Brock - but only Brock has survived the Carwin onslaught... if he catches Dos Santos cleanly, I think the fight maybe over. It will also be interesting to see if Carwin has altered his style at all and worked on his cardio in case it goes to a second and third round. Months ago, I would’ve laughed at anyone who suggested that training with Steven Seagal at Black House would be an advantage for dos Santos, but two crazy front kicks to the face from Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida later, and I’d now be eating my words. Lol... yeah. It's either a crazy coincidence - or Seagal is teaching some good stuff(!).
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Humanbackpack
Mid-Carder
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Wrestling, JKD Mixed Martial Artist.
Joined on: Mar 12, 2011 11:44:41 GMT -5
Posts: 57
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Post by Humanbackpack on May 22, 2011 4:06:43 GMT -5
carwin gased out one time, come on guys give him a break. i believe the round 1 terminator will win this fight tko. junior is good but he couldn't finish roy . lol ....carin vs cane nxt!!!
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Post by shogungi on May 23, 2011 5:04:50 GMT -5
carwin gased out one time, come on guys give him a break. i believe the round 1 terminator will win this fight tko. junior is good but he couldn't finish roy . lol ....carin vs cane nxt!!! As a fighter its unexceptionable to to gas out. Also Shane couldn't finish Brock in Round One but Cain manhandled him and made him verbally quit(IMO but either way he finished him) but at the same time couldn't finish Kongo while Brock couldn't finish Herring. JDS has finished everyone of his opponents except one just like Cain and Carwin plus Carwin had a questionable chin.
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Post by Swarm on May 23, 2011 5:51:38 GMT -5
carwin gased out one time, come on guys give him a break. i believe the round 1 terminator will win this fight tko. junior is good but he couldn't finish roy . lol ....carin vs cane nxt!!! As a fighter its unexceptionable to to gas out. Also Shane couldn't finish Brock in Round One but Cain manhandled him and made him verbally quit(IMO but either way he finished him) but at the same time couldn't finish Kongo while Brock couldn't finish Herring. JDS has finished everyone of his opponents except one just like Cain and Carwin plus Carwin had a questionable chin.That's kind of jumping the gun. Carwin's gotten rocked exactly one time in his MMA career. Less than 30 seconds later, he had knocked his opponent out already. At the end of the day, when you're dealing with heavyweights, taking a loaded right hand on the jaw is gonna shake just about everyone. The more important aspect is how someone recovers, which in the Gonzaga fight, Carwin showed he recovers very well. And if you really wanna get technical in terms of stoppages, if the officiating that was done for the JDS/Struve fight was applied to the Brock/Carwin fight, Carwin would have been the UFC champion. I'm not criticizing Rosenthal's job, I'm just saying to use Carwin not finishing Brock as some sort of barometer of him not having finishing capability is ridiculous. Brock's just a tough dude and Rosenthal gave him a lot of leeway.
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Sonnen
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 16, 2010 8:42:36 GMT -5
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Post by Sonnen on May 23, 2011 5:58:34 GMT -5
^ This
Anyone who counts Carwin out of this fight, or doesn't given him a fair chance of winning is down right foolish, he's had one loss, and to be quite honest at the time I would of called for a stopage. Had it of been a different referee, I would of seen Carwin as the new UFC Heavyweight Champion.
Carwin had some explanation for as to why he gassed, can't remember exactly what it was, but I'm not judging his cardio till I see more of him I guess, I'll give him a fair chance.
The reality of it is, minus the one fight he has lost, he had finished all his fights in round 1. He's a hard hitter and could take JDS out.
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Post by shogungi on May 23, 2011 20:31:31 GMT -5
As a fighter its unexceptionable to to gas out. Also Shane couldn't finish Brock in Round One but Cain manhandled him and made him verbally quit(IMO but either way he finished him) but at the same time couldn't finish Kongo while Brock couldn't finish Herring. JDS has finished everyone of his opponents except one just like Cain and Carwin plus Carwin had a questionable chin. That's kind of jumping the gun. Carwin's gotten rocked exactly one time in his MMA career. Less than 30 seconds later, he had knocked his opponent out already. At the end of the day, when you're dealing with heavyweights, taking a loaded right hand on the jaw is gonna shake just about everyone. The more important aspect is how someone recovers, which in the Gonzaga fight, Carwin showed he recovers very well. And if you really wanna get technical in terms of stoppages, if the officiating that was done for the JDS/Struve fight was applied to the Brock/Carwin fight, Carwin would have been the UFC champion. I'm not criticizing Rosenthal's job, I'm just saying to use Carwin not finishing Brock as some sort of barometer of him not having finishing capability is ridiculous. Brock's just a tough dude and Rosenthal gave him a lot of leeway. Like I said ,questionable, if JDS hits him flesh on and it has no effect on Carwin than he has a great chin but for now we have seen him rocked and we haven't seen JDS rocked. I wasn't trying to use the Brock fight as a barometer thought I think it should of been stopped, you make it seem like I said Carwin can't finish a fight when I simply said that because backpack said JDS couldn't even finish Nelson. ^ This Anyone who counts Carwin out of this fight, or doesn't given him a fair chance of winning is down right foolish, he's had one loss, and to be quite honest at the time I would of called for a stopage. Had it of been a different referee, I would of seen Carwin as the new UFC Heavyweight Champion. Carwin had some explanation for as to why he gassed, can't remember exactly what it was, but I'm not judging his cardio till I see more of him I guess, I'll give him a fair chance. The reality of it is, minus the one fight he has lost, he had finished all his fights in round 1. He's a hard hitter and could take JDS out. I'm not counting him out in fact I think this fight is more dangerous for JDS, I'm just picking it based on JDS having better technique.
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