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Post by Hulkamaniac on Jul 14, 2011 16:46:14 GMT -5
To be honest, if people don't watch the video, it's hard to have a discussion about the subject, because they don't know the points raised by the video. I watched it all, and it raises some very interesting, and valid points. It is very heavy handed and dramatic sometimes, but a lot of things are very valid, and real concerns about college, and our economy. I would say at least watch the first 15-30 minutes of it. For reference, I have a bachelors degree in Management Information Systems. I went to a community college for 2 years to save on the costs of college, and finished my degree at UGA. I would say that maybe 20% of what I learned in college was actually important in what I do now. Right now I am a manager of a computer help desk for a major law firm. I have employees who have degrees in computer science, and employees that have G.E.D.s. Personally, I am not more likely to hire a person with a college degree. It really comes down to the individual, the amount of skill they show in the interview, and how they present themselves as being able to do the job. My assistant, never went to college, and makes more than the people on my help desk who have bachelors and masters degrees. I also work with many lawyers who went to school for 6-10 years. They have 200k in student loan debt. And now work as paralegals or project attorneys who make less than my help desk people. Many of the lawyers don't pay off their loans until they are in their 40's or later. My personal opinion, is that college is only for about 25% of the people who go. I believe I could easily have the same job today without my degree. In fact, my boss recently told me he didn't remember I went to college and it wasn't a factor in me getting the job. Basically, one of the main points of the video, is that you can actually make as much entering the workforce at 18, especially if you invest wisely, without the crippling debt hanging over you. That the "college graduates make 1 million more in their life" statistic is greatly exaggerated when you include costs of school, lost incolme during school, and interest of loans. I'll have to PM you some time with questions about how to get PC Law to behave.  I hate that freaking program. |
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Post by T R W on Jul 14, 2011 16:55:17 GMT -5
To be honest, if people don't watch the video, it's hard to have a discussion about the subject, because they don't know the points raised by the video. I watched it all, and it raises some very interesting, and valid points. It is very heavy handed and dramatic sometimes, but a lot of things are very valid, and real concerns about college, and our economy. I would say at least watch the first 15-30 minutes of it. For reference, I have a bachelors degree in Management Information Systems. I went to a community college for 2 years to save on the costs of college, and finished my degree at UGA. I would say that maybe 20% of what I learned in college was actually important in what I do now. Right now I am a manager of a computer help desk for a major law firm. I have employees who have degrees in computer science, and employees that have G.E.D.s. Personally, I am not more likely to hire a person with a college degree. It really comes down to the individual, the amount of skill they show in the interview, and how they present themselves as being able to do the job. My assistant, never went to college, and makes more than the people on my help desk who have bachelors and masters degrees. I also work with many lawyers who went to school for 6-10 years. They have 200k in student loan debt. And now work as paralegals or project attorneys who make less than my help desk people. Many of the lawyers don't pay off their loans until they are in their 40's or later. My personal opinion, is that college is only for about 25% of the people who go. I believe I could easily have the same job today without my degree. In fact, my boss recently told me he didn't remember I went to college and it wasn't a factor in me getting the job. Basically, one of the main points of the video, is that you can actually make as much entering the workforce at 18, especially if you invest wisely, without the crippling debt hanging over you. That the "college graduates make 1 million more in their life" statistic is greatly exaggerated when you include costs of school, lost incolme during school, and interest of loans. I'll have to PM you some time with questions about how to get PC Law to behave. I hate that freaking program. We use a different software called Carpe Diem for our billing, fortunately. It is one of the few things we don't have a lot of issues with. |
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Post by Cult Member BriGuy on Jul 14, 2011 20:10:15 GMT -5
What about graduate school? Just as pointless?
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Post by slappy on Jul 14, 2011 20:17:38 GMT -5
I'm actually not going to college because I want a degree so I can get a job. I'm going so that I can learn and educate myself on subjects that I am interested in. I dont even know what jobs I can get with my major.  If you have the money, go for it. I watched the video months ago and thought it was great. College is not bad, it's turning it into a diploma factory and business is what  s it up. I understand that it needs to be paid for, I'm not saying it should be free, but it should be reasonable. It should also be structured towards what we want to do in life. Should not waste the money on extra classes we have to take just so they can make more money off of us. |
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Post by spamdfms101 on Jul 14, 2011 20:21:19 GMT -5
I'm actually not going to college because I want a degree so I can get a job. I'm going so that I can learn and educate myself on subjects that I am interested in. I dont even know what jobs I can get with my major. If you have the money, go for it. I watched the video months ago and thought it was great. College is not bad, it's turning it into a diploma factory and business is what s it up. I understand that it needs to be paid for, I'm not saying it should be free, but it should be reasonable. It should also be structured towards what we want to do in life. Should not waste the money on extra classes we have to take just so they can make more money off of us. Many colleges arent that expensive, especially if you can get grants and scholarships. I was offered a full ride to a decent university. Sure, it wasnt prestigious, but it was still a college where I could have been debt free. If you work hard, getting an undergraduate degree doesnt have to break the bank. |
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Post by slappy on Jul 14, 2011 20:24:04 GMT -5
If you have the money, go for it. I watched the video months ago and thought it was great. College is not bad, it's turning it into a diploma factory and business is what s it up. I understand that it needs to be paid for, I'm not saying it should be free, but it should be reasonable. It should also be structured towards what we want to do in life. Should not waste the money on extra classes we have to take just so they can make more money off of us. Many colleges arent that expensive, especially if you can get grants and scholarships. I was offered a full ride to a decent university. Sure, it wasnt prestigious, but it was still a college where I could have been debt free. If you work hard, getting an undergraduate degree doesnt have to break the bank. Yeah, my 4.0 was me not working hard enough. I have a bunch of debt from school and it was pointless. |
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Jul 14, 2011 20:32:28 GMT -5
I'll have to PM you some time with questions about how to get PC Law to behave. I hate that freaking program. We use a different software called Carpe Diem for our billing, fortunately. It is one of the few things we don't have a lot of issues with. Can't say I'm familiar with that one. Do you use Amicus at all? We've got one client who insists on using even though they're not paying for support any more and it's a PITA to deal with. They refuse to get rid of it. |
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Jul 14, 2011 21:28:09 GMT -5
I'm actually not going to college because I want a degree so I can get a job. I'm going so that I can learn and educate myself on subjects that I am interested in. I dont even know what jobs I can get with my major. If you have the money, go for it. I watched the video months ago and thought it was great. College is not bad, it's turning it into a diploma factory and business is what s it up. I understand that it needs to be paid for, I'm not saying it should be free, but it should be reasonable. It should also be structured towards what we want to do in life. Should not waste the money on extra classes we have to take just so they can make more money off of us. The "extra classes" are not there so they can make more money. They're there because the idea is that exposing people to things they might not otherwise take an interest in makes them well-rounded individuals. I got ridiculously high grades is my psych class. I had no idea I had any aptitude in that area. My professor basically begged me to become a psychology major. I can't say that the idea is unappealing to me either and it's nice to know now that I have an entirely different field I might be able to fall back on down the road. I never would've taken a psychology class on my own. Never would've taken an ethics class either, but that was an absolutely fascinating class that I sucked at. |
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Post by ICW on Jul 14, 2011 23:24:17 GMT -5
If you have the money, go for it. I watched the video months ago and thought it was great. College is not bad, it's turning it into a diploma factory and business is what s it up. I understand that it needs to be paid for, I'm not saying it should be free, but it should be reasonable. It should also be structured towards what we want to do in life. Should not waste the money on extra classes we have to take just so they can make more money off of us. The "extra classes" are not there so they can make more money. They're there because the idea is that exposing people to things they might not otherwise take an interest in makes them well-rounded individuals. I got ridiculously high grades is my psych class. I had no idea I had any aptitude in that area. My professor basically begged me to become a psychology major. I can't say that the idea is unappealing to me either and it's nice to know now that I have an entirely different field I might be able to fall back on down the road. I never would've taken a psychology class on my own. Never would've taken an ethics class either, but that was an absolutely fascinating class that I sucked at. That's a good point... But what about a student who is forced to take a class that they genuinely do not like/have never been quite good at? For example, I cannot stand math. It's not that I don't want to be good at math nor do I find math disinteresting; I just find math extremely difficult. I was forced to take it and what happened? I received a C+ and it lowered my GPA. True, it didn't have a major impact on my GPA but it still lowered it nonetheless. |
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Post by Kliquid on Jul 15, 2011 0:15:55 GMT -5
The "extra classes" are not there so they can make more money. They're there because the idea is that exposing people to things they might not otherwise take an interest in makes them well-rounded individuals. I got ridiculously high grades is my psych class. I had no idea I had any aptitude in that area. My professor basically begged me to become a psychology major. I can't say that the idea is unappealing to me either and it's nice to know now that I have an entirely different field I might be able to fall back on down the road. I never would've taken a psychology class on my own. Never would've taken an ethics class either, but that was an absolutely fascinating class that I sucked at. Exploring things that people want to explore should be done on their own time, at their own pace. If students didn't have to spend 50 hours a week on homework, maybe they'd have time to find new things they enjoy... Or create new inventions... |
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Post by extreme on Jul 15, 2011 2:04:27 GMT -5
The "extra classes" are not there so they can make more money. They're there because the idea is that exposing people to things they might not otherwise take an interest in makes them well-rounded individuals. I got ridiculously high grades is my psych class. I had no idea I had any aptitude in that area. My professor basically begged me to become a psychology major. I can't say that the idea is unappealing to me either and it's nice to know now that I have an entirely different field I might be able to fall back on down the road. I never would've taken a psychology class on my own. Never would've taken an ethics class either, but that was an absolutely fascinating class that I sucked at. Exploring things that people want to explore should be done on their own time, at their own pace. If students didn't have to spend 50 hours a week on homework, maybe they'd have time to find new things they enjoy... Or create new inventions... What's so bad about General education courses? The list of classes are pretty broad enough that at least some of them would be interesting. I understand the whole 'it has nothing to do with my major/ future job' argument. Trust me, i really do. But you got to understand that people change, and so do their plans. I could have this plan to become a stock broker and a few semesters in after taking finance classes and business classes, I suddenly lose the urge to become one. Now what? I'm back to square one asking myself "what do I want to do/learn?" As Hulk said, at least GE classes give at least some sort introduction to other possible pathways. |
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Post by Tye Hyll on Jul 15, 2011 2:07:15 GMT -5
College is stupid. technical school isnt
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AONI
Superstar
Joined on: Jul 8, 2008 22:10:17 GMT -5
Posts: 563
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Post by AONI on Jul 15, 2011 4:40:05 GMT -5
as a student at San Francisco State, ill say that this video is right on the money on some things and totally off base on others.
i agree that college is more about business than it is about education. i dont however think that that is some big conspiracy. we live in a consumer society, dont get mad when people start being greedy when greed is what keeps the wheels turning.
i agree that loans can be crippling. but you dont NEED to take loans to go to school if youre already struggling financially. there are a variety of grants and scholarships out there waiting to be applied for.
also, to say that degrees mean absolutely nothing? my family came here from Samoa 30 years ago. ive seen the effect a degree can have on my family's life firsthand. i dont need some angry little man in an hour long youtube documentary tellin me theyre useless.
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Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
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Post by Revvie® on Jul 15, 2011 7:29:19 GMT -5
The reason i left college was because I couldnt handle the math courses...this is a truth for me that i loathe. Im good all the way up through algebra but in order to pass the class I had to do so much more. I didnt have the extra money for a tudor and the teacher told me that if I couldnt do it then it wasnt there problem because they just figured it was because I was being lazy which wasnt the case at all. I spent most of my free time at the school trying to push through it and I just couldnt....I would have to retake the class until I did so and I knew it wouldnt matter....I was, sadly incapable....but was pulling down A's and B's in my other classes. The counselors just shrugged, they told me a tudor was my best bet but could offer no support due to the class loads they had and what not.
I think college is great, I just think you should be trained(like others have said) and educated in things that are what you are looking into. Not being put through a ringer and if you cant do advanced mathematics then your just going to fail.
just my two cents though.....
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Jul 15, 2011 8:21:18 GMT -5
The "extra classes" are not there so they can make more money. They're there because the idea is that exposing people to things they might not otherwise take an interest in makes them well-rounded individuals. I got ridiculously high grades is my psych class. I had no idea I had any aptitude in that area. My professor basically begged me to become a psychology major. I can't say that the idea is unappealing to me either and it's nice to know now that I have an entirely different field I might be able to fall back on down the road. I never would've taken a psychology class on my own. Never would've taken an ethics class either, but that was an absolutely fascinating class that I sucked at. That's a good point... But what about a student who is forced to take a class that they genuinely do not like/have never been quite good at? For example, I cannot stand math. It's not that I don't want to be good at math nor do I find math disinteresting; I just find math extremely difficult. I was forced to take it and what happened? I received a C+ and it lowered my GPA. True, it didn't have a major impact on my GPA but it still lowered it nonetheless. To be completely fair though, isn't a lot of work in life about doing things that you don't like/aren't good at? I do stuff every day at work that I hate, but I do it because I also get to do stuff that I love. |
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Post by hbkjason on Jul 15, 2011 8:44:31 GMT -5
Far to many people these days confuse qualifications with intelligence just because you have a degree does not make you intelligent. The amount of people I went to Uni withe who went for the lifestyle and because it was better than getting a job would blow your mind easily in double figures and thats just people I knew. I went to Uni because I needed to for the job I wanted and I did have a hell of a great time. but like some of you guys from the USA have said I had to take classes in stuff that I had no interest in to fill up my credits it was just a waste of time.
Here is another thing in the UK your first year does not count toward your final degree. So what the hell is the point your paying for 3 (sometimes 4 depending on the Uni) years when you should only be doing 2.
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Post by ICW on Jul 15, 2011 9:53:53 GMT -5
That's a good point... But what about a student who is forced to take a class that they genuinely do not like/have never been quite good at? For example, I cannot stand math. It's not that I don't want to be good at math nor do I find math disinteresting; I just find math extremely difficult. I was forced to take it and what happened? I received a C+ and it lowered my GPA. True, it didn't have a major impact on my GPA but it still lowered it nonetheless. To be completely fair though, isn't a lot of work in life about doing things that you don't like/aren't good at? I do stuff every day at work that I hate, but I do it because I also get to do stuff that I love. True, but what if the class you are forced to take is a). genuinely difficult for the student to the point that they nearly or even do fail, b). Said class has ZERO relation to student's major and minor |
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Post by LA Times on Jul 15, 2011 10:40:27 GMT -5
To be completely fair though, isn't a lot of work in life about doing things that you don't like/aren't good at? I do stuff every day at work that I hate, but I do it because I also get to do stuff that I love. True, but what if the class you are forced to take is a). genuinely difficult for the student to the point that they nearly or even do fail, b). Said class has ZERO relation to student's major and minor Calculus and chemistry fit that description for many majors. Many colleges require an 'intensive writing' course, usually in political science or philosophy, as part of the general education requirement |
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Post by extreme on Jul 15, 2011 13:24:26 GMT -5
To be completely fair though, isn't a lot of work in life about doing things that you don't like/aren't good at? I do stuff every day at work that I hate, but I do it because I also get to do stuff that I love. True, but what if the class you are forced to take is a). genuinely difficult for the student to the point that they nearly or even do fail, b). Said class has ZERO relation to student's major and minor Colleges offer free tutoring services and study groups. Going to professor's office hours help as well. Almost everyone gets stuck in college at some point. It's all about forming connections and taking advantage of resources available to you. As far as the zero relations with major goes, it may seem like some classes are they are unnecessary but they can be proven to be useful. For example I've taken so many biology classes where some of my classmates had a hard time reading and interpreting simple data because they never took a statistics course or they couldn't write a proper research paper because they just refused to take writing intensive humanities courses. The content of the GE's classes may not have anything to do with what you want to learn but they can definitely help you improve some skills to do well in your major classes. |
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Jul 15, 2011 13:26:16 GMT -5
True, but what if the class you are forced to take is a). genuinely difficult for the student to the point that they nearly or even do fail, b). Said class has ZERO relation to student's major and minor Calculus and chemistry fit that description for many majors. Many colleges require an 'intensive writing' course, usually in political science or philosophy, as part of the general education requirement Writing is an extremely valuable skill in any field. I don't know a single field that doesn't involve writing and the ability to write well is HUGE. Calc and chemistry's usefulness really depends on the major. Just because someone doesn't think it's useful doesn't mean it really isn't. I really think college is more about learning how to think about things than anything. |
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