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Post by wabarrett on Jul 24, 2011 13:02:01 GMT -5
Well, the concept of Face and Heel, the good guy and the bad guy, has been a big part of WWE since the very beginning. Fans would go to events to cheer on the good guy and boo the bad guy. I think this concept is becoming irrelevant in current day.
Whether it's (in contrast to what my IWC buddies tell me) because there's a much larger percentage of adults in the audience or whatever the reason (I have no idea), people seem to just cheer who they like and boo, or not react at all, to those who they don't care for. Really, this is understandable. But WWE trying to put across the hero and the villain is becoming a lost cause.
Take the current, huge WWE vs. CM Punk angle. Punk is great, he is probably the most well-rounded Superstar the WWE has seen since Shawn Michaels. So obviously fans are gonna be impressed with him. But right now CM Punk isn't coming across as the bad guy. He's taken the WWE Championship from the WWE, meaning the company that serves to provide us, as WWE fans, with entertainment, has no Champion. Yet, at the recent Comic-Con confrontation with Triple H, he was being cheered. It's kind of a problem. As Triple H said, and as Vince McMahon and John Cena have both mentioned, people are cheering a guy who has walked out, turned his back on the fans and done a runner with their title.
That's one of the most Heel-like things you can do surely?
Something must be wrong. Maybe WWE needs a bigger, better Face to counter-act Punk, maybe Punk hasn't been portrayed as a Heel enough, maybe a lot of people actually hold such a negative view of WWE that they will happily take Punk's side. Or, maybe people don't care who is good and who is bad and just raise the roof for the guy who entertains them the most.
If the last one on my list is the answer, well I think it's time WWE does away with Face and Heel altogether and maybe it would give WWE even more of a sport feel, maybe at the sacrifice of some very good 'good vs. evil' feuds.
People may repsond with a 'The-fans-choose-the-face-and-the-heel' notion. But that clearly doesn't work. People cheered Randy Orton during the peak of his heel run, where he was attacking Triple H's family members, threatening to sue the company and punting people left and right. They cheered him so much that WWE thought they had to turn him Face. They do, and if anything, his popularity as a Face has dropped. Fans seemingly don't know what they want now on top of all the other factors.
So what the hell is the problem here?
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Post by nochump on Jul 24, 2011 13:08:57 GMT -5
This could never work in the WWE. WWE is sports ENTERTAINMENT so they'd need a story. Stories get bland when you don't know who's good or bad. This could work in the Indys where its just about the wrestling but never in the WWE. And so what about the IWC, the WWE are making sure they entertain the kids before us. Without the good and bad guys, the kids wouldn't be entertained as easily. It just wouldn't work, and it's never gonna happen.
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Post by wyleecyotee on Jul 24, 2011 13:14:11 GMT -5
I think it needs to do away with the obvious face and heel, have people go about doing what they "naturally" do and let the fans decide who they like. It's a big standard having a person not liek the fans, hes a heel, he loves the fans, hes a face... I want a heel who lives to capture the World Title (like hHh). I want better gimmicks but not the ones like a big bird costume or an evil clown.
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Post by Matt on Jul 24, 2011 13:45:22 GMT -5
I kind of view wrestling today as more of protagonist versus antagonist than face versus heel.
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Post by slappy on Jul 24, 2011 13:53:57 GMT -5
How well does that work for TNA?
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Kassius OhYes
Superstar
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Post by Kassius OhYes on Jul 24, 2011 14:06:09 GMT -5
They need to make the characters more edgy so you can't tell at first what side they are on. This would add depth to the character. I also believe the should tone down gimmicks and let the wrestlers ad lib
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2011 14:13:28 GMT -5
It should have been done a long time ago. Everyone should just fight everyone in hopes of winning the titles and moving up the ranks. This is why I enjoy TNA, they don't rely on face/heel alignments too much. I like being able to decide who's right and wrong myself.
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Post by King of Kings on Jul 24, 2011 14:21:32 GMT -5
I'm so glad you people have nothing to do with the booking of any programming anywhere.
Stories thrive on good vs evil or rather protagonist overcoming the antagonist. The antagonist doesn't always necessarily have to be the villain character but in the world of professional wrestling/sports entertainment, if you wanna get any sort of positive ratings at all, you need storylines to go with it.
Having just pure professional wrestling where wrestlers just go out week after week and wrestle would not last. Even professional sports have stories (Lakers/Celtics, Red Sox/Yankees, the list goes on).
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Post by Johnny Wrestling on Jul 24, 2011 14:30:06 GMT -5
I'm so glad you people have nothing to do with the booking of any programming anywhere. Stories thrive on good vs evil or rather protagonist overcoming the antagonist. The antagonist doesn't always necessarily have to be the villain character but in the world of professional wrestling/sports entertainment, if you wanna get any sort of positive ratings at all, you need storylines to go with it. Having just pure professional wrestling where wrestlers just go out week after week and wrestle would not last. Even professional sports have stories (Lakers/Celtics, Red Sox/Yankees, the list goes on). Just look back at the last RAW we had. It is 90% wrestling and people complained about it. |
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Post by totti on Jul 24, 2011 14:40:48 GMT -5
"people seem to just cheer who they like and boo, or not react at all, to those who they don't care for." People have been doing that for years, since the mid 90s even.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2011 15:19:39 GMT -5
No.
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brianregan09
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Post by brianregan09 on Jul 24, 2011 15:22:53 GMT -5
People are cheering CM Punk because the alternitive is Cena who has gone stale and people just want something fresh CM Punk brings them that and the majority of people know that this is just a story, I think same thing with Orton punting the Mcmahons who wouldn't cheer that, When Triple H has been a dick heel for the last ten or so years (barring his DX time) People were delighted when Orton started killing him
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Post by wabarrett on Jul 24, 2011 15:58:39 GMT -5
Woah, woah, woah, I'm not even saying I want it to happen guys.
My point is that seems how people, nowadays more than ever before, cheer and boo who they want regardless of if they are the good guy or bad guy, the prominent Face and Heel divide might as well be taken away.
I still want storylines, rivalries, people doing wrong and people doing right. I just think if the fans are deciding for themselves who is right and who is wrong, who to cheer for and who to boo, then the line between Face and Heel should be faded, not completely rubbed out.
lol I obviously worded the OP s***. But like I said look at this current Punk vs. WWE angle. If people are gonna cheer the guy attempting to be a mega heel, why even bother?
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Sonnen
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Post by Sonnen on Jul 24, 2011 15:58:56 GMT -5
You need some clear cut face, and horrible dick heels, that is wrestling.
There is room for some grey area where fans can make up there mind, but overall, stick to heel and face.
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Post by Johnny Wrestling on Jul 24, 2011 16:03:43 GMT -5
Woah, woah, woah, I'm not even saying I want it to happen guys. My point is that seems how people, nowadays more than ever before, cheer and boo who they want regardless of if they are the good guy or bad guy, the prominent Face and Heel divide might as well be taken away. I still want storylines, rivalries, people doing wrong and people doing right. I just think if the fans are deciding for themselves who is right and who is wrong, who to cheer for and who to boo, then the line between Face and Heel should be faded, not completely rubbed out. lol I obviously worded the OP s***. But like I said look at this current Punk vs. WWE angle. If people are gonna cheer the guy attempting to be a mega heel, why even bother? Yeah, I got it at first. What you are saying is letting the fans choose who they want to cheer and boo for, and not WWE trying to force us to cheer someone, like letting us bring Cena sucks signs, or not turning someone like they did with Orton just because he was getting cheered. |
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4up
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Post by 4up on Jul 24, 2011 20:34:55 GMT -5
Sort of understand where you're coming from, but it's not like they do away with the heels. They sell a respectable amount of merchandise.
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Post by Irish Wrestling Entertainment on Jul 24, 2011 21:05:57 GMT -5
I know exactly what you are saying here. I don't often agree with you but I see the point. Anyway, to quote Vince McMahon when he introduced the Attitude Era - "We know you are tired of having your intelligent insulted... with the same old simplistic theory of good guy versus bad guy"  I'm pretty certain this is what you are talking about. And yeah, maybe that simplistic theory which has arisen again in recent years due to the current marketing demographic may cease to exist now that Punk and the WWE as a whole have rekindled interested in a more mature audience. However, 'heel' and 'face' can never cease to exist completely. It's just impossible in my opinion. |
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