Jamal
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Joined on: Nov 24, 2005 14:53:44 GMT -5
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Post by Jamal on Jan 4, 2012 14:41:20 GMT -5
lol @ Matthews being just outside of elite. Also Gates isn't elite anymore. Please list the 12-15 RBs that are better than Matthews. How can Gates not be elite anymore? Cuz of injury issues? Well then I expect guys like Peyton Manning, Darren McFadden, etc to be off your list as well. Oh and I neglected to mention Foster as an elite RB as well. 12 or 15? lulz Do you have guys like Fitzpatrick and Flacco as elite as well? I'd say they fall in to the top 15 of their position.
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Post by captain master talbot on Jan 4, 2012 16:28:50 GMT -5
Please list the 12-15 RBs that are better than Matthews. How can Gates not be elite anymore? Cuz of injury issues? Well then I expect guys like Peyton Manning, Darren McFadden, etc to be off your list as well. Oh and I neglected to mention Foster as an elite RB as well. 12 or 15? lulz Do you have guys like Fitzpatrick and Flacco as elite as well? I'd say they fall in to the top 15 of their position. I think Mathews signed a t-shirt for him at 5 AM at an airport
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Dexter Morgan
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Post by Dexter Morgan on Jan 4, 2012 18:24:02 GMT -5
12 or 15? lulz Do you have guys like Fitzpatrick and Flacco as elite as well? I'd say they fall in to the top 15 of their position. I think Mathews signed a t-shirt for him at 5 AM at an airport until that kid stole it.
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Post by T R W on Jan 4, 2012 18:31:35 GMT -5
Justin Tuck called the Falcons offensive line scumbags. They kind of are, and kind of aren't. They take cheap shots sometimes, which is wrong, but on the other hand, you can't be upset that they block through the entire play just because a lot of o-lineman don't. Funny thing is, the main guy who got them that reputation isn't with the team and left for St. Louis.
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Post by captain master talbot on Jan 4, 2012 19:21:23 GMT -5
Justin Tuck called the Falcons offensive line scumbags. They kind of are, and kind of aren't. They take cheap shots sometimes, which is wrong, but on the other hand, you can't be upset that they block through the entire play just because a lot of o-lineman don't. Funny thing is, the main guy who got them that reputation isn't with the team and left for St. Louis. Hey, Tuck didn't call them scumbags. He said other people would call him that. Do not trust ESPN or the general media.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Jan 4, 2012 19:25:47 GMT -5
Please list the 12-15 RBs that are better than Matthews. How can Gates not be elite anymore? Cuz of injury issues? Well then I expect guys like Peyton Manning, Darren McFadden, etc to be off your list as well. Oh and I neglected to mention Foster as an elite RB as well. I'm pretty sure being in the top 15 of a skill position doesn't make you "just outside" elite. Who said that? Mathews is NO WHERES near elite and neither is Jackson. Rivers took a giant step back from being elite this year. Please just stop. Gates is the only questionable one considering he is hurt alot of the last few years. Please stop embarrassing yourself. Stewart...way too much crap to break down with quotes. So I'll stick with the basics. Names like Turner and Charles are debatable. Bradshaw, Benson and Lynch?!??!! HELL NO!!!! Lynch couldnt so crapin the first half of the season. Lynch is good for a few games and thats it. Dude falls off. Bradshawn is average at best. And Benson is a joke. Chris Johnson pretty much dissappeared this season. Next year he might reclaim a top spot, but who knows. His numbers have been declining. And no you cannot make an argument that the 2 RBs in Carolina are better than Matthews. This is freaking absurd. You seem to be a SD fan, did you actually watch these games?! I'll stick with what I said...he is right outside elite. He is a debatable top 7 RB....not what I am saying, but its debatable. Definitely have him in the 10 range. Vincent Jackson is atop the depth chart. Are you gonna tell me that next year we will see Floyd there? Do you think if SD can only keep 1 WR...they are taking Floyd? Stats arent the only thing. This isnt fantasy football. I hear so many of these arguments and all I hear is about people basing everything off of fantasy football points. You want to demote Gates cuz he is hurt, but you want to tell me that McFadden, Jackson, Jamall Charles are all better than Matthews yet....they were all hurt. Which is it? I asked this question before and you refused to answer it. Seems like you want to play it both ways. What does the Jets defense and the Chargers defense have to do with one another? You asked me to name people on the Chargers D. Both teams are top 15 defenses. Kliq...I agree with Ferguson and Mangold. Hard to remember considering how crappy that offensive line was the entire season. Please list the 12-15 RBs that are better than Matthews. How can Gates not be elite anymore? Cuz of injury issues? Well then I expect guys like Peyton Manning, Darren McFadden, etc to be off your list as well. Oh and I neglected to mention Foster as an elite RB as well. 12 or 15? lulz Do you have guys like Fitzpatrick and Flacco as elite as well? I'd say they fall in to the top 15 of their position. Here's another case of someone who doesnt read. Instead of just jumping on and trying act smart.....why dont you read what is said. I NEVER said top 15 is elite. NEVER!!!! I specifically spelled out exactly what I considered elite. Some dumbass on here decides to misquote me and everyone follows suit. Way to embarrass yourself. 12 or 15? lulz Do you have guys like Fitzpatrick and Flacco as elite as well? I'd say they fall in to the top 15 of their position. I think Mathews signed a t-shirt for him at 5 AM at an airport Are you jealous if he did? I think Mathews signed a t-shirt for him at 5 AM at an airport until that kid stole it. No kid stole anything. Get your facts straight.
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Jamal
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Joined on: Nov 24, 2005 14:53:44 GMT -5
Posts: 4,877
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Post by Jamal on Jan 4, 2012 20:12:10 GMT -5
You're the only one embarrassing yourself...
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Jan 4, 2012 21:11:51 GMT -5
You're the only one embarrassing yourself... Yeah. I guess me and Steve Young are an embarrassment. Cuz Steve Young said many of the exact same points as I did today. Let me know when you'll be replacing Steve Young. Young stated that with as many great players the Chargers has that there is no reason this time lives in mediocrity. He went onto say that Turner is a good coach. AJ Smith is a good GM. But the combination of the 2 is the downfall of the Chargers.
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Post by captain master talbot on Jan 4, 2012 22:12:24 GMT -5
Rivers also threw like 1000 picks in the first half of the season.
If he cuts that in half, I guarantee you they win at LEAST 2 more games, and thus, the division.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Jan 4, 2012 22:23:00 GMT -5
Rivers also threw like 1000 picks in the first half of the season. If he cuts that in half, I guarantee you they win at LEAST 2 more games, and thus, the division. So its all Rivers fault? This team is too talented to be mediocre. I am not saying its a hands down SB freight train. But its better than 3rd in its division, outside the playoffs. This team is good enough to be a top seed in the playoffs.
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Post by Tim of thee on Jan 4, 2012 22:34:38 GMT -5
Rivers also threw like 1000 picks in the first half of the season. If he cuts that in half, I guarantee you they win at LEAST 2 more games, and thus, the division. So its all Rivers fault? This team is too talented to be mediocre. I am not saying its a hands down SB freight train. But its better than 3rd in its division, outside the playoffs. This team is good enough to be a top seed in the playoffs. the chargers talent is all myth, actually have you seen how bad our defense has become? how about our brittle offensive line? injuries also create inconsistency.. it is my opinion, and the opinion of others, that games and titles are won on the front lines of the game.. and I don't think the chargers have successfully addressed these needs in the past few seasons there is a lot of blame to go around after this disappointing season, but there still is a lot to look forward to in my opinion..
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Post by captain master talbot on Jan 4, 2012 22:46:14 GMT -5
Rivers also threw like 1000 picks in the first half of the season. If he cuts that in half, I guarantee you they win at LEAST 2 more games, and thus, the division. So its all Rivers fault? This team is too talented to be mediocre. I am not saying its a hands down SB freight train. But its better than 3rd in its division, outside the playoffs. This team is good enough to be a top seed in the playoffs. Or it's the fact that the AFC West might be the softest division in football, and usually Rivers and co. make themselves look better by playing out there?
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Jamal
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Joined on: Nov 24, 2005 14:53:44 GMT -5
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Post by Jamal on Jan 4, 2012 22:49:54 GMT -5
You're the only one embarrassing yourself... Yeah. I guess me and Steve Young are an embarrassment. Cuz Steve Young said many of the exact same points as I did today. Let me know when you'll be replacing Steve Young. Young stated that with as many great players the Chargers has that there is no reason this time lives in mediocrity. He went onto say that Turner is a good coach. AJ Smith is a good GM. But the combination of the 2 is the downfall of the Chargers. Oh why didn't you say that earlier? My gosh I take everything back, now that Steve Young went out and said that...
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 4, 2012 23:14:55 GMT -5
I don't think the Chargers have that many elite players.
... But that's actually why I think Norv Turner and AJ Smith need to be fired. Look at how many busts they have drafted in recent years...
2011: Corey Liuget, DE (1st round) Marcus Gilchrist, DB (2nd round) [both of these guys could still develop but look bad so far]
2009: Larry English, OLB -- Looks absolutely terrible
2008: Antoine Cason, CB (Round 1) -- Awful Jacob Hester, FB (Round 3) -- A mediocre FB in the 3rd round
2007: Craig Davis, WR (Round 1) -- Humiliatingly awful
2006: Antonio Cromartie, CB (Round 1) -- A good player, but already gone and never peaked like he should have given his physical talent
It's been since 2005 that the Chargers made a REALLY good pick in the first round. Most of them have been horrendous. Ryan Mathews looks pretty good now, but he looked terrible in his rookie season, too.
This is the job of the GM, scouts and head coach. Acquire talent, develop said talent. They have not done so.
Who has even been drafted under the Turner regime that is ANY good? Eric Weddle and Ryan Mathews are the only players that don't seem like complete poop. And we're talking about FIVE YEARS OF DRAFTING!!
How the hell can these guys stay in charge? It's ridiculous. Fire them now.
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Post by Greg Weinstein on Jan 4, 2012 23:28:36 GMT -5
So its all Rivers fault? This team is too talented to be mediocre. I am not saying its a hands down SB freight train. But its better than 3rd in its division, outside the playoffs. This team is good enough to be a top seed in the playoffs. Or it's the fact that the AFC West might be the softest division in football, and usually Rivers and co. make themselves look better by playing out there? No it isn't. The NFC West is the worst division. We're actually very competitive, hence the 8-8 winner. KC is so underrated it's not even funny, and they punched the undefeated Packers right in the mouth. __________________ CM, your premise is incorrect. That premise being the Chargers are "CHALK full of elite players". I asked you to name these "elite" players, and you could only give me 3. Gates is an elite tight end, but he wasn't 100% this year. So his play this year has not been "elite". Rivers is elite, and he played 3/4 of the season at a much lower level than he is capable of. I still think Vincent Jackson is up there, I wouldn't disagree with you calling him "elite", but his consistency needs to improve - consistency being one of the main ingredients of an "elite" player. I am not demoting anything. I gave you a list of 16 RBs in the NFL that are better than Mathews, and I forgot to add Mendenhall as well. So what 3 of them were injured? Did you say he was elite this season because of those injuries to the other players? Even then you'd be incorrect. What the hell have you seen from Mathews that just "wows" you? He's improving, but he hasn't done enough to be in that conversation. Stop it.
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Post by Tim of thee on Jan 4, 2012 23:32:15 GMT -5
nick, who do you replace him with and attain immediate results?
I still think right now their best chance at staying competitive is to go with the status quo which has put together some pretty stellar seasons
I will also argue that AJ has found some good players elsewhere, like in the middle rounds and after the drafts..
look, as soon as we would fire them, some other team would have scooped them right up and they would have success wherever they land
I am willing to give them another shot next season, AND THEN I will see where the team is.. they have no choice, really..
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Jan 4, 2012 23:51:10 GMT -5
Yeah. I guess me and Steve Young are an embarrassment. Cuz Steve Young said many of the exact same points as I did today. Let me know when you'll be replacing Steve Young. Young stated that with as many great players the Chargers has that there is no reason this time lives in mediocrity. He went onto say that Turner is a good coach. AJ Smith is a good GM. But the combination of the 2 is the downfall of the Chargers. Oh why didn't you say that earlier? My gosh I take everything back, now that Steve Young went out and said that... Ohhhh...you are one of those internet guys that thinks every NFL expert doesnt know shit. So when does your draft big board come out? Kiper and McShay told me at the airport at 5am they cant wait. Or it's the fact that the AFC West might be the softest division in football, and usually Rivers and co. make themselves look better by playing out there? No it isn't. The NFC West is the worst division. We're actually very competitive, hence the 8-8 winner. KC is so underrated it's not even funny, and they punched the undefeated Packers right in the mouth. __________________ CM, your premise is incorrect. That premise being the Chargers are "CHALK full of elite players". I asked you to name these "elite" players, and you could only give me 3. Gates is an elite tight end, but he wasn't 100% this year. So his play this year has not been "elite". Rivers is elite, and he played 3/4 of the season at a much lower level than he is capable of. I still think Vincent Jackson is up there, I wouldn't disagree with you calling him "elite", but his consistency needs to improve - consistency being one of the main ingredients of an "elite" player. I am not demoting anything. I gave you a list of 16 RBs in the NFL that are better than Mathews, and I forgot to add Mendenhall as well. So what 3 of them were injured? Did you say he was elite this season because of those injuries to the other players? Even then you'd be incorrect. What the hell have you seen from Mathews that just "wows" you? He's improving, but he hasn't done enough to be in that conversation. Stop it. I didnt say it was hands down. I can see an argument for the NFC West being softer. But if its not the softest....its the second softest. You get what I am saying. KC, when healthy is ok. Last year they had the benefit of a soft schedule. This year, tougher schedule and a host of injuries. But lets not make the win over the Packers to be more than what it was.....GB's WRs having a tough day, dropping passes and a team that wasnt prepared to win. KC was a given a win there. They didnt punch them in the mouth. They got a present. Their defense played well and yeah ...overall, I would say that their defense is under rated. Thats the credit I will give them. Having an elite QB, WR and TE and then having some really nice talent at a number positions is "chalked full". No one is going to put together an all star team. Yeah there might be a team with 4 or 5 elite players....but there arent too many that have 3 skill positions like the Chargers do. Wait...you dont know what 3 RBs were injured, but you are so sure they are better. Ok...real sound argument here. But hey....I never said Matthews was elite. Again.....take a read of what I actually write instead of just flat out lying. I said he was on the outside looking in. Tell ya what....I'll punch a hole in my own argument, since you cant. Matthews isnt a top 10 RB or top 12 RB b/c he has only gotten the job done for one season. I'm willing to accept that. Hell, I would be willing to back off my own statement a bit b/c of that thinking. But I doubt you will find too many people who'll say the same thing about Cam Newton. Newton was a beast this year and looks to be a guy to take Carolina into the future. Guess what....he did it for 1 season. So all those who are saying Cam is one of the best in the league.....that argument is flawed. I dont normally use a single season to determine one's value. I fell into that same hole that so many do and thats being a prisoner of the moment. Matthews had a HELL Of a year.
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 5, 2012 0:18:30 GMT -5
nick, who do you replace him with and attain immediate results? I still think right now their best chance at staying competitive is to go with the status quo which has put together some pretty stellar seasons I will also argue that AJ has found some good players elsewhere, like in the middle rounds and after the drafts.. look, as soon as we would fire them, some other team would have scooped them right up and they would have success wherever they land I am willing to give them another shot next season, AND THEN I will see where the team is.. they have no choice, really.. The status quo worked because they had the greatest running back of the past decade on their roster, in his prime, playing with the greatest fullback of the past decade, in his prime. They had Merriman who was a pretty good pass-rusher, Brees and Rivers who are both elite QB's. Tomlinson is gone. The glory days of the Chargers are gone. No longer is one player going to pull that poopty roster out of the toilet and into the playoffs as the No. 1 or No. 2 seed. They might win the division, but only because of it being a complete joke. The Chargers are aging everywhere that matters. As we've shown in this thread, there aren't many elite players on the team. There really aren't even many "very good" players. What players has AJ Smith hit on in the mid-late rounds in recent years? I mean, since Turner came. Eric Weddle in the 2nd round. Who else? Everyone else is garbage. The drafting has been atrocious. What leads you to believe that there are better days ahead? Just for a quick comparison, let's compare them to the Cowboys. Dallas hasn't been AMAZING at drafting, but we don't even have a GM. Our GM is basically Jerry Jones, who people claim is too involved in the team. We've gone through four head coaches in 10 years, including three since 2005. This means different systems, different coaching techniques, coaches trying to find "their guy" at specific positions, etc. Still, look at the draft history... 2007:1: Anthony Spencer - Starting OLB, pretty good player 4: Doug Free - Starting LT 6: Nick Folk - Hate him, but he is the starting K on the Jets now 7: Alan Ball - Hate him too, but he's a starting safety 2008: 1: Felix Jones - Starting RB 2: Mike Jenkins - Starting CB 4: Tashard Choice - Not a great player, but a serviceable backup RB 5: Orlando Scandrick - Decent nickel cornerback 2009: (didn't have a 1st or 2nd round pick this year) 4: Stephen McGee - Seems to be an okay backup QB This draft was a trainwreck for the most part. 2010: 1: Dez Bryant - Has been injured, but shown signs of being a legit WR 2: Sean Lee - Could be one of the better picks of the entire draft. Anchors the interior of the Cowboys defense. 2011: 1: Tyron Smith - Appears to have all the tools to be an upper-tier LT (or an elite RT) in the NFL 3: DeMarco Murray - Absolutely tore it up when he was healthy ... And again, that's not even a team that's very good at drafting. That's just a DECENT drafting team. Do you see how many names I listed off? And how many does San Diego have? 4 or 5 total maybe? Almost all of their first round picks have been complete bums. Do you know what I see from the Chargers in the future? At least 5 more years of being mediocre. Why? Because they are so freaking thin, it's ridiculous. You can't miss on 90% of your draft picks and expect to get better. It's just not logical. Tell me - what has AJ Smith done in the past four years that has been GOOD for the team in the long run? How about Norv Turner? Who has he developed? Before you say "develop Philip Rivers," remember that Marty Schottenheimer coached that team to a 14-2 record with the No. 1 offense in the NFL before Norv Turner took over. They were an elite offense before Turner ever coached in San Diego. Who do I replace them with? I don't know. I'm not an NFL owner. I don't spend my days looking at who are available as GM's... But I can guarantee you one thing - if the guys I had were doing as bad of a job as Turner and Smith have been, they would be gone and I'd be doing my research right now on who the next person to hire is.
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Post by Greg Weinstein on Jan 5, 2012 1:44:11 GMT -5
I didnt say it was hands down. I can see an argument for the NFC West being softer. But if its not the softest....its the second softest. You get what I am saying. Again, you are wrong. We had three 8-8 teams and a 7-9. NOT ONE other division in the NFL this season had its LAST place team at 7-9. The AFC West hasn't been that good for a while, thus everybody's so used to saying "The AFC West is a joke" that it's just become easy to say... but they are not looking at the FACTS. Since I suspect you're rather lazy, let me go ahead and provide you with some: AFC West out-of-division wins: DEN: NYJ, MIA, CIN, MIN, CHI SD: MIN, MIA, JAC, BUF, BAL OAK: NYJ, HOU, CLE, MIN, CHI KC: MIN, IND, CHI, GB Not GREAT, not BAD. I see 4 playoff teams in there. Collectively beat the NFC North. Every team in our division beat a playoff team. You can't say that about the NFC West, NFC East, NFC North, AFC East, and AFC North (in other words, ALL the other divisions in the NFL except the AFC South, with the Colts getting one at the end against the Texans).And if you watched the game, KC punched GB right in the mouth. GB led ONCE by 1 and it was erased rather quickly. They couldn't stop Orton or the Chiefs' running game, nor get any rhythm on offense. That is getting flat out beat. Meanwhile, we got you and others saying we're bad, soft, whatever. What about the NFC East this year? the Eagles went 5-1 in the division, but finished only 8-8. Should I call the NFC East soft? A 9-7 winner came out of that one. People aren't criticizing the Patriots for not having ONE win against a team with a winning record (I know they're THAT good, but still). Last time I checked, Redskins, Colts, Jaguars, Vikings, Buccaneers, Panthers, Rams, Browns, Cardinals, Dolphins, and Bills don't belong in the AFC West. Get the out of here with that bullcrapalready. Having an elite QB, WR and TE and then having some really nice talent at a number positions is "chalked full". No one is going to put together an all star team. Yeah there might be a team with 4 or 5 elite players....but there arent too many that have 3 skill positions like the Chargers do. No we are not. Are the Panthers an elite team? They have a very good dual-threat QB, two very good tight-ends, and an elite receiver. Oh yeah, I guess you forgot about defense. Wait...you dont know what 3 RBs were injured, but you are so sure they are better. Ok...real sound argument here. But hey....I never said Matthews was elite. Again.....take a read of what I actually write instead of just flat out lying. I said he was on the outside looking in. You are a comedian. Nice back-tracking too. How the am I supposed to interpret "right on the outside of elite". Then you proceed to say he's "on the outside looking in". Well, which one? Do they mean the same thing? What are you saying with that? I will take that as you saying, "Hey, and Mathews is pretty damn close to being an elite running back". THAT'S NOT TRUE! Jamaal Charles has proven more than Mathews on the football field. Look up his stats. I will say he is better than Mathews with the courage of my convictions. From what I've seen when Darren McFadden was healthy, I will flat out say that he is currently better than Mathews. I'd think a lot of people would agree with that. DeAngelo Williams and Stewart have proven to be pretty good. Williams had a MONSTER 2008 season and a pretty good 2009 season. He was injured last year, and saw less carries this year because they have a QB who likes to carry a lot as well. Regarding your "this isn't fantasy football" comment - all I have to say to that is certain players are drafted ahead of other players for a reason. Certain players score more points than other players for a reason. Tell ya what....I'll punch a hole in my own argument, since you cant. Matthews isnt a top 10 RB or top 12 RB b/c he has only gotten the job done for one season. I'm willing to accept that. Hell, I would be willing to back off my own statement a bit b/c of that thinking. But I doubt you will find too many people who'll say the same thing about Cam Newton. Newton was a beast this year and looks to be a guy to take Carolina into the future. Guess what....he did it for 1 season. So all those who are saying Cam is one of the best in the league.....that argument is flawed.
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Post by Greg Weinstein on Jan 5, 2012 1:52:10 GMT -5
Who has even been drafted under the Turner regime that is ANY good? Eric Weddle and Ryan Mathews are the only players that don't seem like complete poop. And we're talking about FIVE YEARS OF DRAFTING!! I've seen some pretty nice things from Vincent Brown. I say give that guy a chance.
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