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Post by mikey1974 on Jan 8, 2012 8:38:18 GMT -5
I disagree with Flair here as Macho was great on the mic and in the ring. And if he did want to practice and plan like that it was only to give the fans a perfect show. However I agree with you that Macho/Steamboat was overrated as all hell. That match just bores the hell out of me. It is a good match but its nowhere near the greatest of all time. agree too...it was a good,maybe even a GREAT match, but i think it gets all the hype it does for being the best match on what was for years THE SuperCard of all time....the biggest thing about it was all the pin attempts in a short period of time... personally,i can think of a lot of matches that i consider better: Steamboat vs Fl;air - Chi-Town Rumble 89 Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan - WrestleMania V Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart - WrestleMania XII Steve Austin vs the Rock - WrestleMania X Seven Hollywood Hogan vs the Rock - WrestleMania X8 Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania XX Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 25 ...all come to mind as,in MY mind,being more worthy of the "Greatest Match Ever" than Savage-Steamboat at WM III |
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Jan 8, 2012 12:54:48 GMT -5
I disagree with Flair here as Macho was great on the mic and in the ring. And if he did want to practice and plan like that it was only to give the fans a perfect show. However I agree with you that Macho/Steamboat was overrated as all hell. That match just bores the hell out of me. It is a good match but its nowhere near the greatest of all time. agree too...it was a good,maybe even a GREAT match, but i think it gets all the hype it does for being the best match on what was for years THE SuperCard of all time....the biggest thing about it was all the pin attempts in a short period of time... personally,i can think of a lot of matches that i consider better: Steamboat vs Fl;air - Chi-Town Rumble 89 Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan - WrestleMania V Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart - WrestleMania XII Steve Austin vs the Rock - WrestleMania X Seven Hollywood Hogan vs the Rock - WrestleMania X8 Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania XX Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 25 ...all come to mind as,in MY mind,being more worthy of the "Greatest Match Ever" than Savage-Steamboat at WM III I think with Savage-Steamboat, as the years go by, we lose perspective on why it was considered so great at the time. But yeah, I'll agree that the more time that passes, the less impressive it seems. For one thing, the bar has been raised since then, in terms of what constitutes an excellent match. All of the examples you listed as better matches happened after 1987. Matches like Savage-Steamboat weren't unheard of in 1987 or earlier, but they certainly weren't what the WWF was known for at the time and they practically never happened above midcard in a well-pushed storyline. Which is why those who experienced the Savage-Steamboat feud as it happened tend to remember it more fondly than younger fans that may have seen it all with the benefit of hindsight. At the time, it really did stand out. After years (decades) of awesome matches since then, it doesn't seem so great. I also think seeing the match out of context (as a match on a DVD extra or as part of a greatest matches collection) takes away from how perfectly that feud culminated. That was a super hot feud... people at the time reacted to Savage's attack on Steamboat's throat as if Savage were a legit psychopath that tried to kill Steamboat. I saw the ring bell attack live in the arena and people were screaming and crying. It was insane (good old kayfabe). When Steamboat came back they went nuts... winning the IC title from Savage in a show-stealing match just made fans deliriously happy. Different times. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2012 13:21:52 GMT -5
your on a roll Johnny..... another effin POWERFUL post from you.
you nailed my feelings on Steamboat vs Savage perfectly......and yeah the emotion over Savage brutally attacking Steamboat was unreal at the time and to see Steambot win after such an exasperating effort was great.
IMO thats why its so fondly remembered.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2012 13:31:53 GMT -5
Savage vs. Steamboat from WM 3 is awesome and still holds up today. I don't care what anyone says!
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June
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Post by June on Jan 8, 2012 13:42:13 GMT -5
If Steamboat & Savage would have kicked out of eachothers finishers several times, stolen one another's finishers, and brawled in the crowd, then this match would be more accepted by today's fans.
I love the story that they told at WMIII. I still hold the mainevent if that show in higher regard though, but great match nonetheless.
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Post by mikey1974 on Jan 8, 2012 16:05:46 GMT -5
see,for me the impact of that match doesn't really have any effect on me...
why? because from roughly WrestleMania 2 til WrestleMania III, i took a break from pro wrestling..i was burned out,as i lived,breathed,ate,and slept the WWF.....so my first event whaen i came "back" was actually WM III ...needless to say,i missed a lot,though the Hogan-Andre match resonated with me as i knew both well,and their friendship...but all i had to go on for Steamboat-Savage was the couple clips they showed of their feud before the match,so for me the whole feud WAS just that match,as i had no emotional stake in it,and didn't witness it from beginning to end...
that might color my perspective of it as well...i DO remember thinking at the time it was a great match...but,like i said "I" had seen many better ones after that...
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Post by cordless2016 on Jan 8, 2012 22:50:18 GMT -5
Though I wasn't born when the match first happened, I understand how Savage-Steamboat changed the standard for wrestling back then. The WWF had never really had a match like that before, and it was groundbreaking for the company back then. Over the years, like previous posts have stated, the match has become less "popular" because new standards have been set since then, but overall, the match will always be remembered for setting a new bar in the WWF, similar to how the TLC matches set a new bar nearly 15 years later.
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Post by Calcifer Boheme on Jan 9, 2012 2:01:32 GMT -5
Michael Hayes told the story on one of the round tables that while Vince was making tons of money already, most of the southern promotions didn't worry too much because while he had the glitz and glamor, they had the better wrestling and people would always respond to that. Wrestlmania III happened to be an of day for them and Hollywood John Tatum ordered it. Hayes said that after that match, Tatum called him and said something to the effect of "They've beaten us" (I'm not sure that's the exact quote, but it's the same gist). I think that says volumes about the quality of that match. People may not like it as much now since tastes change and a lot of the context has been lost, but it's a bar that was set and wrestlers have been working towards ever since. Some have reached that bar, some have even gone over it, but it was a game changer in the very truest sense of the term. As for Savage planning ahead of time, I think that helped him. And if everything he did was exactly according to plan, he's even more amazing than anyone could have guessed. Where as most guy worked to the crowd and changed if it wasn't working, he would have had to plan what they would think. And fans were always into his stuff 100%. I'm sure he had the ability to change the plans if he needed to, he just preferred to work that way. Savage is one of the best of all time in my opinion. Very top tier in both the ability and star power (most of his company changes depending on the list though). And know, my opinion isn't based on him being one of my favorites since I was a small child. Hillbilly Jim was too, and I'm fully aware that he was lacking  |
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jason1980s
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Post by jason1980s on Jan 9, 2012 8:46:27 GMT -5
Savage is regarded as one of the best and while he left us wanting more and stepped away from wrestling he didn't tarnash his legacy with making himself to be the center of the show or bleeding for paychecks or coming back after match retirements. I don't even think he had kayfabe retirements. He passed away way too soon but at least it wasn't in his 20s, 30s, or early 40s of unfortunate personal circumstances. Who can say a true bad word about Savage in wrestling terms? (maybe being too protective about Elizabeth but that's a personal matter).
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Post by Nivro™ on Jan 11, 2012 5:48:25 GMT -5
I put Savage and Steamboat in the top 10, if not Top 5 all time best ring workers...however Ill still take any Flair-Steamboat match over Savage-Steamboat. Flair and Ricky just had something special together.
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