Liu Kangaroo
Main Eventer
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Post by Liu Kangaroo on Jan 25, 2012 11:14:10 GMT -5
why did it end so soon? He had a main event match against Rock at SummerSlam and a title match against HHH on RAW and then a week later he's back teaming with Road Dogg. I was a big time Billy Gunn mark during that the time (9/10 years old). He had the right look, but a so-so gimmick. I could have never bought him as the top dog, but he should've floated around the main event scene for at least a couple more months.
Another person who I feel got shafted at that time is Val Venis. His feud with Mankind was great, but unfortunately a month later he was fighting for the European title which had lost its prestige a long time ago.
Jeff Jarrett is another one who had good potential but Stone Cold didn't want to put him over.
Gunn, Venis, and Jeff Jarrett should've been pushed as threats in the fall of 1999.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 12:29:47 GMT -5
I agree with you on billy gunn, he was a great heel.
Val venis too should of gone further, i think the whole roster in 99 was under rated
Mind you, Jeff Jarretts house keeping antics with chyna was great.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 12:30:46 GMT -5
That fall was...weird.
They tried pushing Billy Gunn during the entire summer of 1999 after he won the King of the Ring. Unfortunately, his name was Mr. Ass and was more of a comedy/fun gimmick than someone who was ever really taken seriously as a top contender. Therefore, when they tried to push him as a top contender he was stuck in stupid "kiss my ass matches" and garbage like that which just added to the fact that he wasn't going to get any further up the card being Mr. Ass.
I do remember Val's feud with Mankind while British Bulldog was feuding with The Rock. I think Val Venis went over Mankind at No Mercy 1999 if I'm not mistaken. You're right though...his push then just kinda vanished. So did Bulldogs after The Rock gave him the Rock Bottom on a pile of dog poo. Ridiculous.
Jeff Jarrett screwed himself by holding up Vince for his last match against Chyna at No Mercy. I think Jarrett was kinda known for jumping from company to company at the time anyway so Vince may not have pushed him farther than the IC title because he never knew if Jarrett was going to stick around. I have heard that Stone Cold rumor though...
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Post by jammer311 on Jan 25, 2012 13:06:44 GMT -5
I remember in Fall of 98 that Billy Gunn tagged with Austin on a Raw in the main event during the DX era and he was hot as a babyface. Fans took to Billy Gunn and I think the initial thought was that Billy Gunn was gonna be the new HBK just by the way he sold moves and such.
But then they turned him heel and gave him the name "Mr. Ass" instead of just being "Bad Ass" Billy Gunn, and it took away the main event look.
I always thought that Val Venis would have made a great technical wrestler.... if he wrestled in the 1980s. He was sound, and crisp but he really did feel like he belonged in the 80s with how he wrestled.
And Jeff Jarrett was known for usually doing some surprise in October. In 96 he jumped to WCW from USWA, in 97 he came back to the WWE from WCW, in 98 he brought in Debra and in 99 he went back to WCW.
But I don't blame him for going back to WCW in 99. Austin stated he didn't wanna work with Jarrett, and I don't think Jarrett could have had a long run as a WWE Champion, anyhow. I could see him at least winning it once, but I don't think it would have been for long. Not when you have Triple H, The Rock, Mankind, Big Show, Austin, and Kane all still there.
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jakksking1
Main Eventer
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Post by jakksking1 on Jan 25, 2012 13:07:13 GMT -5
Billy Gunn's push was doomed from the start. He had a string of hookie or just plain bad gimmicks up until that point: Smoking Gunn, Rockabilly, Mr. Ass, then of course after that "The One". Very hard to take him seriously, especially with that theme music.
Other than that, it was well known that the New Age Outlaws were big into drugs and alcohol, so I doubt Vince wanted to push either of them in a major way. Billy had the look, and he was ok in the ring, but thats about it. He needed some sort of mouthpiece to be taken seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 15:02:44 GMT -5
Billy Gunn's push ended so soon because of Triple H, he started getting his power and Austin (who at the time was also brown nosing) wanted a fued with hunter.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 17:43:39 GMT -5
nope.... that isnt the way it went AF. Gunns push ended because of one reason..... Vince went with Triple H who was the hotter heel. in may of 99 Vince had 2 options to push as the next big heel-HHH or Billy Gunn.he gave Billy the KOTR and continued pushing HHH as the 2nd biggest heel after Taker during the Summer. in July he correctly decided that HHH had the better crowd reactions and intensity as heel.thus HHH went over Rock at Fully loaded and Gunn went on to to be fed to Rock. Austin DID NOT lobby for a feud with HHH.he was totally unconvinced of his status as a premiere heel and didnt feel anyone would buy it after his months long feud with Undertaker....after Fully Loaded 99 they knew Austin was  ed and planned to put the title on HHH.Austin wouldnt drop it to him so it went to Foley then HHH. |
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Post by Chicago on Jan 26, 2012 1:58:38 GMT -5
Billy Gunn was a solid worker, but I don't think he ever singularly captured the audience's attention; his success always came from being one-half of a tag team and he rode that train as far as it would take him.
Fortunately for him, it took him to the main event in '99 for a brief period of time. Did he really belong with The Rock, Mankind, or Stone Cold? No, of course not. He was a relatively-fresh face (well, actually heel), but his future was doomed in a one-on-one feud with the hottest thing going in '99, The Rock.
This killed it for Billy Gunn. Total character assassination. There was no way he was coming back from that, even if he scored 10 wins on The Rock in one night. Also, WWF was looking for a top heel to lead the way, and clearly they made the right choice by sticking with Triple H.
That's not to say Triple H wasn't shoved down our throats during the fall of '99, because he was. He didn't really solidify his place in the main event until the Cactus Jack feud of early 2000.
Guys like Val Venis and Al Snow were lucky to have Mick Foley looking out for them, because there's no way they're seeing the light of the upper mid-card/main event without his influence. After Val's SummerSlam '98 match with D'Lo, I was convinced he (and D'Lo) would be the future (along with Edge) of the WWF leading into the 2000s, but they maxed out on the mid-card (except Edge, of course).
Some guys just aren't made for the main event considering the competition and the believability factor; of all of those names mentioned, only Jarrett could have main evented. Even then, Jarrett didn't have Austin's approval, and he was only slightly better than Mero at getting a reaction from the crowd (that's not saying much).
Jarrett vs. Chyna was gold, but where does he go from there? I would find it very hard to not view him along the same lines as Mr. Ass or Val Venis in a feud with the likes of Austin or The Rock. He just wasn't/isn't cut from the same cloth as those latter guys.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 8:07:43 GMT -5
I remember Billy Gunn being pretty over during 99, I think he definately could have been world champion, and a believable one at that. He was one of the best in the ring during the attitude era. The whole KOTR was the start of his push to the title, but he was definately held back by Austin and Hunter.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 11:36:51 GMT -5
I remember Billy Gunn being pretty over during 99, I think he definately could have been world champion, and a believable one at that. He was one of the best in the ring during the attitude era. The whole KOTR was the start of his push to the title, but he was definately held back by Austin and Hunter. man he wasnt held back by Austin.....Vince decided to back HHH.did HHH politic it?maybe.....but in essence he was clearly the way to go. he had effin MEGA heat for turning on DX at WM15.Gunn as a heel was medium at best IMO and as pointed out above the promo Rock cut on him was the last nail in a solo career. |
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Post by jammer311 on Jan 26, 2012 11:58:15 GMT -5
I am sure Billy Gunn only got the KOTR win because X-Pac got in trouble over something. I believe Billy Gunn stated that in his shoot, that he wasn't supposed to be the KOTR winner, that it really was meant for X-Pac to win it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 13:36:44 GMT -5
Mr. Ass? World champion potential?
I disagree.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 14:28:13 GMT -5
I am sure Billy Gunn only got the KOTR win because X-Pac got in trouble over something. I believe Billy Gunn stated that in his shoot, that he wasn't supposed to be the KOTR winner, that it really was meant for X-Pac to win it. stop the press......I think Jammer has scored big here.i think I remember that from someplace too. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 15:05:05 GMT -5
Wow..do you think Xpac could have gotten more over as a mega heel? He probably wouldnt have been buried by The Rock as badly.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 15:16:14 GMT -5
How about this one ..
Ok so the Outlaws had split up around Wrestlemania-Backlash 99 time,
Did the two have a match at backlash aswell as over the edge?
Road Dogg was goin for the hardcore title and billy gunn was solo in my opinion he could of had a rivalry with Val Venis all about the looks for the ladies bein an ass man and all.
OR
He could of continued his push and possibly have gotten a place in the 6 man match at unfogiven that year, Imagine back then the King of the Ring winner gettin a 'money in the bank' type stipulation behind them, It would of gone well for Billy and Perhaps changed the History of the King of the Ring winners.. who knows!
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Post by jammer311 on Jan 26, 2012 15:44:00 GMT -5
Well I know Billy Gunn was supposed to get a slight push. He was scheduled to go over Shamrock at the Royal Rumble and win the IC Title, but something happened and he messed it up, thus they gave Shamrock the win.
Sadly, after that it seemed that whole mid card situation went to hell.
Billy Gunn ended up getting the Hardcore Title, Roaddogg got put into the IC Title, it just seemed like after the Rumble that things went terribly wrong in the mid card.
As for X-Pac, it would make sense for Pac to win the KOTR that year. He just got done putting over Shane O-Mac not once, but twice! He was given the Tag Title, but he already lost it by KOTR time, so clearly a KOTR win would have pushed him as the huge under dog winning the tourny, thus giving us another reason to have Roaddogg and Pac vs. Billy and Chyna for the DX rights come Fully Loaded.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jan 26, 2012 17:12:40 GMT -5
I never saw Gunn as a serious top contender. Like others said, his Mr. Ass gimmick was more of a comedy thing than anything else. But I think a combo of a bad attitude backstage and Jericho and the Radiculz coming in a few months after his push ended any chance "The One" Billy Gunn had at being a top guy.
Jeff Jarrett was more over than Gunn was as a heel in 1999, especially once he began his feud w/ Chyna. Its too bad Austin and JR held him down, because I feel he could have had a good run in the ME in 2000. Obviously Triple H was the #1 heel that year, but I feel that Jarrett could have won the world title atleast once at somepoint. People really do underrate his 1999 WWF run because he was over, just not as over as Triple H. But he was definatly more over than a heel Big Show that year, and some people may laugh at this idea now, but back then had he stayed w/ the WWF, there is a good chance he would have taken Big Show's spot in the WM16 main event w/ Austin and Taker being hurt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2012 14:32:57 GMT -5
yes JJ was defo more over as a heel than Gunn......
actually a JJ vs Rock feud would have been pretty great.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2012 14:53:56 GMT -5
I always enjoyed Gunn, loved Mr. Ass and The One.
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Liu Kangaroo
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 21, 2005 12:55:24 GMT -5
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Post by Liu Kangaroo on Jan 28, 2012 17:09:35 GMT -5
To keep on topic with pushes that ended early, Test should have had a match against Triple H at the 2000 Royal Rumble after the thing with Stephanie. Test just went into the shadows during the HHH/Stephanie takeover which didn't make sense at all. I'm not saying that he should've won the title, but a grudge match between the two would've been good.
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