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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 15:10:38 GMT -5
Hey gents!
The purpose of this topic is for YOU to list YOUR top 3 most overrated & underrated CLASSIC superstars. This topic is not intended for debates or arguments. This is for YOU to voice YOUR opinion on who YOU feel was overrated & underrated. Criteria includes "it factor", mic skills, ring work and charisma. Feel free to write a brief description about who you chose and why. Again, this is not meant to be a debate. Any signs of trouble from anybody (including me) and I will ask JokerFC to shut it down. Overrated does not mean you don't respect/like the superstar it just means that maybe you feel they didn't quite deserve all the praise/success they were given. Underrated doesn't mean they were unsuccessful, it just means that maybe you saw something more in them. Underrated in my terms means "guys who weren't as bad as everyone says".
*Note this is classic superstars ONLY. Please do not include active wrestlers unless they have been around for some time (Taker, HHH, etc.)
That being said...let's have some fun! I'll start:
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Overrated:
1. Ric Flair - It factor - Check. Mic Skills - Check. Charisma - Check. Ring work - Not a fan. I respect Flair for all the great things he has done over his career but a lot of times I feel like he's just going through the motions. It wasn't just in the later part of his career either. Plus, I've never been a big fan of that flip flopping around stuff.
2. Triple H - I never felt he was anything special in the ring or on the mic. I liked him in D-X when he could be funny but his era of destruction 2000-2003 especially was just insane. I felt that he never really did a good job of carrying a match (Steiner, Booker T, etc.) and often times had to be carried by someone else (HBK, Foley, etc.) He's good...but he's not great.
3. Undertaker - I'm an Undertaker fan. I'm very happy for all the things he has accomplished. I'm very happy that he's still around. However, some of Undertaker's biggest matches leave a lot to be desired. Some of it is his fault and some of it isn't. However, I never could get past thinking that some of Undertaker's success was just smoke & mirrors. There was a period of time where he was given crap opponents (Yoko, Bossman, Gonzales, etc.) but other times where matches were just plain bad (Bossman, Big Show, etc.).
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Underrated:
1. Goldust - While Austin gets most of the credit, to me it was Goldust who helped bring in the Attitude Era. He went from being known as "Dusty's Kid" to being one of the most controversial superstars ever. So much love for this bizarre character. Glad he had a couple of IC title runs but felt he could have done more. I would've loved a feud with Goldust & HBK.
2. Kane - I still don't think Kane gets the full credit he deserves just for being successful. Going from being Isaac Yankem and Fake Diesel he seemed to have "future endeavored" written all over him. However, when he became Kane he gave more to the character than anybody could've imagined. I remember reading once that Kane was supposed to be a "short term" character but it's been almost 15 years and he's still around. Plus, I thought his ring work in the late 90s was superior to Undertaker.
3. Jim Neidhart - Jim still doesn't get enough acknowledgement for his work in the original Hart Foundation. His ring work was great and his promo skills are still fun to watch. Everyone seems to remember Bret Hart but when The Hart Foundation first started, it was Anvil who was the star. He had a lot of personal demons which led to his constant in/out of companies but he was still pretty talented for a big guy.
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jasonphoenix1
Main Eventer
Just when you think you know the answers. I change the questions!
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Post by jasonphoenix1 on Feb 1, 2012 15:28:30 GMT -5
Love this topic!
Overrated
Hulk Hogan
Triple H
Ultimate Warrior
Underrated
Goldust
Brian Pillman
William Regal
That would be mine!
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Feb 1, 2012 15:33:53 GMT -5
Overrated:
1.H
2.H
3.H
Underrated:
1.Razor Ramon
2.Kane
3.RVD
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gravedigger3
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Empire Wrestling Federation
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Post by gravedigger3 on Feb 1, 2012 16:24:11 GMT -5
Overrated:
1. Kevin Nash
2. Scott Steiner
3. Randy Savage
Underrated:
1. Undertaker
2. Kane
3. Vader
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samsson
Superstar
from the southside
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Post by samsson on Feb 1, 2012 16:24:21 GMT -5
1. Hogan-but that was Vince's doing
2.HHH- See above
3. Sting-needed alot of help to make his matches look good
1.Arn Anderson- tough as nails, and when he said he was going to kick your arse you believed him
2.Barry Windham- should have beat Flair for title when Flair was on his A game
3.Rick Rude/Mr Wonderful Paul Orandorff- Should have beaten Hogan for belt and fought Flair as well..OOOOOH the possibilities.
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Post by punksnotdead on Feb 1, 2012 17:00:09 GMT -5
I like it.
Overrated
1. The Undertaker - I don't really know what to say here other than I don't get it, I never have, and I never will. He has been in some classics, but more duds imo. I actually consider his match with HBK in HIAC to probably be my favorite match of all time, but he doesn't come close to topping my all time greats list. I feel like he was a talented guy that had an extraordinarily great gimmick that he road for two decades. He didn't even say a word for the large portion of his career. He's a Legend and has earned his spot but I think when it comes to all around talent, there are a number of guys who go before him in my mind.
2. Bret Hart - Firstly, I think Bret is one of the greatest technical WWE wrestlers of all time, but that being said, he wasn't one of the greatest Sports Entertainers of all time imo. He lacked charisma and mic skill, both of which Owen oozed but we will get into that shortly, and he didn't know how to do anything but be sort of the vanilla babyface. Now, he did play a good bad guy when he did the whole screw America bit, and I think that promo is really pivotal in terms of the Attitude Era, but that was just him being backed into a corner by HBK in real life imo because it didn't carry over into WCW when he tried the same shtick. He no sold when he didn't like guys he was working with, he lacked the skill of a true showman, and I think he just arrived on the scene about 5-10 years too late because he was just sort of an old school awesome in-ring guy. Now, that being said, I like Bret, I think his matches are great, but I don't think he was the total package most people make him out to be.
3. Triple H - HHH is the guy I like the most on this list, but he isn't as good as he was booked from 2003 to present. He is above average at everything, he is a student of the game, and he gets a good pop, but he isn't one of the all time greats, and there are guys that didn't get his type of push that had more all around talent than he did imo. He is a product of coming up at the right time, but yet, he is still over shadowed by the actual stars of the Attitude Era. He was a great brawler, and his gimmick matches with HBK and Foley are really his best imo, but the guy can't have a straight up match and be entertaining imo, at least not unless he is standing across from a Shawn Michaels or Chris Jericho. I'm not sure how he ended up getting the opportunity that he did through the 2000's, but I do know that he seemed to over shadow a lot of guys with tons of talent, more than even him.
Underrated
1. Curt Hennig - Probably the greatest WWE performer until HBK in the mid 90s imo. Due to his back problems he never got handed the ball, and what a shame it ended up being. He had as much charisma as the top guys at the time, better in-ring skill than damn near all of them and he had Bobby the Brain. Why he didn't become WWF Champion between 91-93 absolutely blows my mind. He was great in WCW but they wasted him in the NWO and in the mid card for his entire run. He had the look, he could walk the walk and talk the talk, and I just thought the guy had it all.
2. Owen Hart - Can someone please explain to me why he never became WWF Champion after he beat Bret at Mania X? He had the best heel character running from 94-96 in WWF and his face turn in 97 ended up being damn entertaining, albeit short. If Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart had a love child they would have named him Owen Hart. He had charisma, he cut awesome promos, he could grapple, he could fly, and I just think he was one of the most talented upper mid card talents the WWE has ever seen. I don't think Owen wanted to be the guy the way people have talked about it, but it's a shame. None the less, he was an incredible tag team wrestler, an amazing personality, and is just a guy that had he gotten a better push would be a guy we are still talking about today as one of the best.
3. Rowdy Roddy Piper - He was a big star of the 80's and early 90's but why didn't he ever beat Hogan for the belt? Why is his sole run with a title a Rumble to Mania IC run? He is the greatest talker of all time imo, and based on what he needed to do in the ring at the time, he was capable of being the World Champion. I don't know why he never got it, maybe they didn't feel he needed it, but he was as good a character as the other top guys during that period, Hogan, Slaughter, Savage, Bret, Warrior, and even Taker got it and Piper didn't. I just don't know what else the guy needed to do in order to be deemed the guy. I think that is the one thing holding Piper back from being largely considered one of the greatest of all time with the likes of the Hogans and Savages of the 80s.
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jakksking1
Main Eventer
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Post by jakksking1 on Feb 1, 2012 18:15:26 GMT -5
Excellent topic. I'm going to leave Hogan off my list. Over the past decade, he has been the scorn of the IWC, so I dont think he is really overrated anymore
Overrated:
1) Undertaker: He is a good wrestler in general, and a great wrestler for his height. I have never cared for any of his personas or his promos. I was trying to think of how to describe his career, and I think Bash hit it on the head: his career was a lot of smoke and mirrors mixed in with longevity. Most of his major feuds were with career midcarders, and this is especially true before 2001. Taker benefited a lot by being given one of the greatest gimmicks of all time. Obviously he had to make it work, but when you are 6'10 and booked to no sell/not lose, it makes it easier. I think the IWC overhypes Taker a lot. He has been involved in a lot of garbage feuds and storylines.
2) Goldberg- I have to include Goldberg since part of your criteria is "didn't deserve the praise/SUCCESS they were given." Goldberg was given too much too fast. He was given an inflated, baloney win streak which mostly consisted of beating up on Jerry Lynn and faulty math. He would be booked in squash match after squash match. His big time matches always left something to be desired. His WWE run was blah. It was a fun ride during the streak, but after that, I lost interest. Another "smoke and mirrors" wrestler. His popularity was mostly product of the streak, and really died after that. Also prone to injuring wrestlers in the ring.
3) Owen Hart- There, I said it. Owen was a very good midcarder. He worked great matches and had a great feud with Bret. I love Owen, I enjoyed his matches. However, the Owen love on the net is ridiculous. In general, I think wrestlers who die during their prime get more love than deserved. Owen is at the top of the pyramid. Every time WM rolls around, we get calls for Owen to be in the Hall of Fame. I love him, but I just can't support the huge following he has drummed up amongst the IWC.
I chose to go with big names because, of course, to be overrated you have to be rated highly by a lot of people.
Honorable Mentions: Kevin Nash, Lex Luger
Underrated
1) Rick Rude: Had absolutely everything needed to be a giant star in the industry. Rude had one of the best gimmicks of all time. He should've been pushed to the moon.
2) Vader: Vince killed his steam. A huge wrestler who was capable of doing things a lightweight could. In my opinion, Vader should be considered one of the all time greats. He was a monster and huge draw in every territory or country he went to. Most only remember him as the guy who was the jobber to the stars in 1998, or the fat guy who tripped. Easily, in my opinion, the best big man ever.
3) Chris Candido: The two things most fans think about when they think of Chris is a) Skip and b) Sunny. A very good wrestler with great charisma, he was saddled with an awful gimmick in the WWF that he would never live down. Not only that, he was clearly overshadowed at every opportunity by his wife. You really don't hear much about Chris, but he was always a favorite of mine.
Honorable mentions: Raven, Kane
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Post by cordless2016 on Feb 1, 2012 18:51:06 GMT -5
Overrated:
1 - Shawn Michaels. Seriously, the love from the IWC fanboys is crazy for HBK. The guy was good in the ring, but not godly like the IWC claims. He was much better during his first run. During his second run, his promos were just boring and by 2008, it was ridiculous that he was still dominating the younger guys like Orton and Cena. His WM25 match was the best on the card, but to call it the best match of all time is ridiculous.
2 - Triple H. Others already stated why. He was good in the ring from 1998-2001, but was mostly crap after that and could never carry an opponent well.
3 - Jeff Hardy. Why do people like him. No mic skills and crap in the ring. Can only do a few high spots here and there that we've already seen a thousand times already.
Underrated:
1 - Christian. Hes always been better than Edge in the ring and on the mic. He was far more over than Edge was from 2004-2005 yet Edge was contantly given failed pushes. Christian never gets the recognition he deserves.
2 - Booker T. Great in the ring and on the mic yet people don't seem to mention his name as one of the greatest. Maybe its because the WWE burried him in the mid-card for being a "WCW guy" but Booker had it all. Still pissed Hunter went over him at WM19.
3 - Ric Rude. This guy should have been WWF Champ.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 18:54:24 GMT -5
great topic man.
Overrated:
Owen Hart.a very solid talent but nowhere near the level people put him at IMO.
HHH:was excellent from 98-2001.after the quad injury he was a sack of crapin the ring and WAY too heavy.quite honestly "the other guy"in most of his major feuds.
Randy Savage.never got it and I doubt I ever will.his feud with Hogan IMO is THE highlight of his career.
Underrated:
Scott Hall as Razor Ramon:so over and so talented......but not viewed as anything more than an upper midcarder by Vince.had the potential to be more......so much more.
The Patriot:great worker with a powerful look and super over gimmick.WWF run was sabotaged by Owen & Smiths refusal to work a program with him(to everyones confusion,Wilkes was liked) and ultimately injury.its sad to me that nobody talks about Wilkes.if it wasnt for Bret he may never have appeared on PPV.
Mr Wonderful Paul Orndorff:so underrated.....could work a big man style,smaller guy style.just excellent.would have made a great Horseman too.
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Post by Rule 30 on Feb 1, 2012 19:10:17 GMT -5
Overrated:
It's tough for me to call people overrated. I guess I can say I never liked Bret Hart all that much.
Underrated:
Taz: I've always enjoyed his ECW work, and I wish he could have actually done something in the WWF.
Vader: I love Vader. He's a tough son of a bitch. He's had some great matches with his size. He was doing great in the WWF too until he ran into Shawn Michaels. After his match with Shawn it went down the tubes and he did nothing more than facing Undertaker and Kane.
Those two came right to my mind. And I know he's still in it today, but I want to add that Cena is way too underrated by the IWC. I understand they don't like his character, but saying "you can't wrestle" is ridiculous. He's had great matches with Orton, Triple H, Shawn, Taker, Batista, Punk, and others over the year. And don't try and tell me that he was carried through them.
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jakksking1
Main Eventer
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Post by jakksking1 on Feb 1, 2012 20:05:02 GMT -5
cordless, Jeff Hardy is a great choice. To this day, I have zero idea of how Jeff Hardy has become popular or a world champion. I remember back around 00/01, girls would screech when he took his shirt off. Once again, that puzzled me too, he is ugly as sin.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 21:15:09 GMT -5
Glad this is going well so far!
Some of these I agree with (Jeff Hardy & Owen Hart being overrated) and some I don't (Bret Hart being overrated). However, that's the whole point of this thread! For YOU to voice YOUR opinion! Keep it going guys!
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Post by cordless2016 on Feb 1, 2012 22:51:52 GMT -5
Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Jeff Hardy is highly overrated. While I don't think either Hardy is/was anything more than a mid-carder, Matt was by far the better overall performer and underrated. Atleast Matt was decent in the ring back in 2003-2007 and could work the mic pretty good. I did believe that if used right back in 2005 that Matt could have been a main eventer but that shiped sailed fast after he was moved to SD at the end of the year and jobbed to Greggory Helms at almost every PPV in 2006. If one of the bros was going to win a world title, Matt deserved it more than Jeff.
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Daniel F'n Bryan
Main Eventer
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Post by Daniel F'n Bryan on Feb 2, 2012 2:18:30 GMT -5
Overrated-
Triple H
Randy Savage
Sting
Jeff Hardy
Road Warriors
Underrated-
Scott Steiner
Owen Hart
Taz
Dean Malenko
Barry Windham
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2012 7:01:22 GMT -5
Great topic, and I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with your choices as being over and under rated.
My top 3 though are:
Over rated:
Ric Flair - I honestly don't think he has any good qualities. He's completely conceited. He always bashes wrestlers who are better than him. I don't think he can work a mic, has absolutely zero charisma and his in ring performance is so limited. If you ask me, he's one of the worst overall wrestlers of all time.
Triple H - I don't think he's an outright terrible wrestler, but he really is only where he is because of backstage politics and of course his marriage to Stephanie.
Shawn Michaels - This was quite a hard spot to fill actually, but I just generally think he's held in too high regard. He was great in the rockers, and I realy liked his run as IC champ, he had awesome fueds with Tatanka and Razor as IC champ. I don't think he should have been pushed any higher than IC level in the 90s, as there were too many guys who were a lot better than shawn at the time, and his push seemed so forced. But in the 00s he definately should have held a few world titles.
Underrated:
Jim Neidhart - He was incredible on the mic, had a huge amount of charisma and in ring talent, in the start of the Hart Foundation he completely carried Bret, even Bret has addmitted this. If he had been pushed correctly he could have been a huge big bad heel, fueding with Bret for the title.
Tatanka - Tatanka was really good in the ring, he wasn't great on the mic, but his whole persona was just so good. And what I like about it is that he is a true native american, he had really nice ring attire, and had major skills. Him and Bam Bam Bigelow are the two top guys who never won any kind of title in the wwe.
Marty Jannetty - I think he's a really under rated worker, he had a lot of skills in the ring, and is easily equal to, or better than Shawn in the ring.
Honerable mentions to the Bulldog (1996/9), Rick Rude (1990/1), Earthquake (1990/1), Billy Gunn (1999/2000) and Curt Hennig (1993/2002); Who all deserved to be world champions in the wwe in their respective periods.
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Daniel F'n Bryan
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Post by Daniel F'n Bryan on Feb 2, 2012 7:06:26 GMT -5
I honestly dont understand how anyone can say Taker or Micahaels are overrated............
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2012 7:18:53 GMT -5
Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Jeff Hardy is highly overrated. While I don't think either Hardy is/was anything more than a mid-carder, Matt was by far the better overall performer and underrated. Atleast Matt was decent in the ring back in 2003-2007 and could work the mic pretty good. I did believe that if used right back in 2005 that Matt could have been a main eventer but that shiped sailed fast after he was moved to SD at the end of the year and jobbed to Greggory Helms at almost every PPV in 2006. If one of the bros was going to win a world title, Matt deserved it more than Jeff. I never understood the Jeff love either......most likely never will.enjoyed the Hardys but didnt enjoy either as singles. |
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Daniel F'n Bryan
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Post by Daniel F'n Bryan on Feb 2, 2012 7:44:38 GMT -5
Another guy IMO that is underrated is Mick Foley. While yes he does get held pretty high in regaurd but he is very rarely on any greatest of all time lists. For a guy that looks the way he does to get as far in this business as he did is amazing and it shows that hard work, dedication and beleiving in yourself you can do great things. Look at his matches with Taker, Rock, his match with HBK at Mind Games, his matches with Orton and Edge. Yeah he got over for his spots but he was great all around. He could work many styles such as hardcore, stong style, comidic and even technical. He was over as a heel and a face something that alot of guys cant do. I would easily put him in my top 10. And regaurding the Hardys, Jeff is overrated as all hell and with the exception of the fued with Edge Matt sucks on his own. The only time they were good were as a team.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2012 11:26:24 GMT -5
I honestly dont understand how anyone can say Taker or Micahaels are overrated............ To me, Taker is not someone who can have a good match with everyone. He has good matches against certain types of guys and other matches that stink out the joint. I love me some HBK and I actually prefer his 2002-2010 run over his 90s run anyday. I didn't care much for his temper tantrums in the ring and his flip flopping selling in the 90s. |
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nibs92
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Post by nibs92 on Feb 2, 2012 15:23:52 GMT -5
Over rated
Hulk Hogan. I'm not from America so probably didn't the whole patriotic gimmic he had first time around. For me though his matches were predictable and i'm surprised that the Hulk gets beaten down for most of the match then makes an "amazing" comeback thing lasted as long as it did.
Legion of Doom. Don't get me wrong i do like them, but they wouldn't make my top 5 teams. Some matches were really good but their no selling used to bug me.
Chyna. I just never really liked her and cringe at most of the things she was involved with. i hope you guys don't think i'm being sexist here but i hated every match she was involved in. poor JJ and Chris Jericho being lumbered with her in matches. She was mildly entertaining when involved with Mark Henry and Eddy Guerrero but even then i put that down to the talents of the Henry and Eddy.
Under rated
Bam Bam Bigelow. Had the look, size and talent to be huge in the WWF circa 1995. Lacked a little in the charisma department however with the right mouthpiece (Jim Cornette perhaps?) he could have been huge at a time when the WWF was crying out for star power. According to rumours though, he was held back by the Cliq and if this is true then it's a great waste and a great shame!
Rick Martel. After strike force broke up i don't think he was misused as such but feel he could have achieved so much more. At the very least he should have held the I.C. title, even for a short while.
Beverly Brothers. just think this was such a waste at a time when the WWF was in need of some fresh, new, decent talent in the tag team ranks. They were decent on the mike (for the time) and should have been used better than jobbing to the Bushwhackers of all teams!
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