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Post by Hulkamaniac on Feb 16, 2012 9:11:57 GMT -5
Did he try to return or report these items found on the bus? If so, then its not cool. From what I hear he did a pretrip, found the items, put them in his bag, and then took his bag to his truck. Once at his truck he was detained. So he wasnt even given a chance to turn anything in. Here it is. He found the stuff, put it in his bag, then took the bag to his car. So he never made it back to the bus, but it'd be difficult for him to argue that he intended on turning the stuff in when he took it back to his truck. If he had left it next to his seat on the bus, then maybe he did intend to turn it in, but in this case he took it back to his vehicle.
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Post by T R W on Feb 16, 2012 9:38:52 GMT -5
Yeah, that is definitely stealing. He deserved to be fired for those actions, in my opinion. He made no obvious signs of trying to return the items, and seemed to go out of his way to put them in his personal vehicle.
If it was a police sting, I would lean more towards the idea that someone brought up of entrapment. But in this case it's the employer wanting to see what actions their employees will take when tempted. In most states, it is well within an employers right to do so, and to fire someone who doesn't meet their standards.
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Post by TurboEddie on Feb 16, 2012 12:02:48 GMT -5
He should have turned it in. Then, if nobody claimed it then it would be his to keep for originally finding it.
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The Highwayman
Main Eventer
JP Deadly
Joined on: Feb 10, 2006 16:19:10 GMT -5
Posts: 4,371
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Post by The Highwayman on Feb 16, 2012 12:29:07 GMT -5
I forgot about that $500 you found once. Of course you wouldn't think it was stealing... Jerk.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Feb 16, 2012 12:42:23 GMT -5
Remember the iPhone 4 thing a couple of years ago. An Apple employee left an iPhone 4 prototype in a bar. Someone picked it up, recognized what it was, walked off with it and sold it to Gizmodo. When the dust cleared, Apple wanted the guy who found it charged with theft and wanted Gizmodo charged with knowingly purchasing stolen property. Last I heard some sort of special prosecutor was going to review all the evidence and decide how to proceed. Apple's claim was not so far out in left field that it was dismissed out of hand though. Their claim that the guy was stealing by picking up a phone in a bar that he knew wasn't his had standing.
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Post by Halloween King on Feb 16, 2012 21:45:17 GMT -5
I forgot about that $500 you found once. Of course you wouldn't think it was stealing... Jerk. I wasnt there when it happened so I dont know, but from what I've been told it goes like this. He found the items and then put them in his truck. Once he turned around he was surrounded and detained. Here is where I think things arent right. They detained him and accused him of theft on the spot. He was not given a chance to call it in, he wasnt given a chance to turn it into disptach. I would think he could claim he was putting it in his truck for safe keeping. I think they would be able to call it theft if at the end of the day he was going to go home with out mention of his finds. But to detain the man right away? Seems to iffy to me. As far as the wallet I found. All I can say is we were in line for a very busy haunted house. Im sure that eventually had it not been me someone else would have found the money. Do I feel bad for the girl, sure. Did I see her in the line? No I didnt. Im not perfect, never claimed to be. If you think me keeping what I found is a jerk move, what ever. Just please dont pretend like you would turn it in just for the sake of comming across as "honest" on here. Also I'll add this. God Bless all of you who are truely that honest/good hearted that you would give something back that you found. Im not that good hearted. If I find something it is mine.
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Post by Irish Wrestling Entertainment on Feb 16, 2012 23:01:25 GMT -5
God Bless all of you who are truely that honest/good hearted that you would give something back that you found. Im not that good hearted. If I find something it is mine. Hand on heart, I would have returned that wallet because I'm aware that the student was probably working a terrible slave job at minimum wage and it took her a very long time to get that money. But I respect that you said the part you put in bold.
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Post by Nivro™ on Feb 16, 2012 23:24:55 GMT -5
You said he took the items, put them in his bag and went to his truck, where they came and got him...Clearly its stealing then. If you found said items you should take them and give them to the appropriate person (management/Lost and Found etc) and turn them in. Not take them to your truck and even say "oh i was going to do it later"...BS! You stole it, you deserve to be fired.
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gawd6sic6™
Main Eventer
" I cross the lines you love to hate "
Joined on: Jan 13, 2009 13:50:08 GMT -5
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Post by gawd6sic6™ on Feb 16, 2012 23:37:21 GMT -5
your friend could have easily put the items in his bag.. left then on the bus , finished his shift then called it in... or , he could have just called it in on the spot.. inform dispatch , something.. instead he took it somewhere else...
he could have had all intentions to do it after his shift.. but its hard to believe , that is what he had planned.. and i think thats what happened to him.. he either made a really dumb choice , or was going to just keep it...
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Feb 16, 2012 23:40:31 GMT -5
I forgot about that $500 you found once. Of course you wouldn't think it was stealing... Jerk. I wasnt there when it happened so I dont know, but from what I've been told it goes like this. He found the items and then put them in his truck. Once he turned around he was surrounded and detained. Here is where I think things arent right. They detained him and accused him of theft on the spot. He was not given a chance to call it in, he wasnt given a chance to turn it into disptach. I would think he could claim he was putting it in his truck for safe keeping. I think they would be able to call it theft if at the end of the day he was going to go home with out mention of his finds. But to detain the man right away? Seems to iffy to me. As far as the wallet I found. All I can say is we were in line for a very busy haunted house. Im sure that eventually had it not been me someone else would have found the money. Do I feel bad for the girl, sure. Did I see her in the line? No I didnt. Im not perfect, never claimed to be. If you think me keeping what I found is a jerk move, what ever. Just please dont pretend like you would turn it in just for the sake of comming across as "honest" on here. Also I'll add this. God Bless all of you who are truely that honest/good hearted that you would give something back that you found. Im not that good hearted. If I find something it is mine. You sir, are an ass. For once, I hope you're trolling.
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Arik Cannon
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Elite Trader
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Post by Arik Cannon on Feb 16, 2012 23:58:05 GMT -5
Last week I found a coin purse sitting on the rail going down a hallway. It was sitting there for a few days. After a few days I opened it and saw there was $65 in it. I went to each person who lives down that hallway and asked if the coin purse was theirs. Nobody claimed it. I didn't turn it into the front desk because who knows where it would end up. I've worked here for 10 years doing janitorial stuff so when people lose stuff they always come to me to see if I have found it. Still nobody has come to me. So I still have the coin purse but if it is not claimed by the end of the week then is it wrong of me to keep it? I tried to find it's owner.
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The Highwayman
Main Eventer
JP Deadly
Joined on: Feb 10, 2006 16:19:10 GMT -5
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Post by The Highwayman on Feb 17, 2012 6:14:15 GMT -5
I forgot about that $500 you found once. Of course you wouldn't think it was stealing... Jerk. I wasnt there when it happened so I dont know, but from what I've been told it goes like this. He found the items and then put them in his truck. Once he turned around he was surrounded and detained. Here is where I think things arent right. They detained him and accused him of theft on the spot. He was not given a chance to call it in, he wasnt given a chance to turn it into disptach. I would think he could claim he was putting it in his truck for safe keeping. I think they would be able to call it theft if at the end of the day he was going to go home with out mention of his finds. But to detain the man right away? Seems to iffy to me. As far as the wallet I found. All I can say is we were in line for a very busy haunted house. Im sure that eventually had it not been me someone else would have found the money. Do I feel bad for the girl, sure. Did I see her in the line? No I didnt. Im not perfect, never claimed to be. If you think me keeping what I found is a jerk move, what ever. Just please dont pretend like you would turn it in just for the sake of comming across as "honest" on here. Also I'll add this. God Bless all of you who are truely that honest/good hearted that you would give something back that you found. Im not that good hearted. If I find something it is mine. I promise you this. I would definitely have turned it in or tried to contact the girl. If I had not done so, my conscience would've eaten me alive to the point that I would've had to have paid her back. That being said, if I found a wallet with no ID or anything like that I probably would've asked people there if they lost a wallet and had them tell me what's inside. Then, if no one could claim it, then yes I would've taken it at that point. So, yeah I'll say it again... It's a jerky move. You could've easily tracked her down and I'm sure she would've been quite thankful. $500 is a lot of money regardless of the situation--never mind when you're still in school. When you're down on your luck, how would you feel if someone took something from you that you worked hard for? ---Don't answer that, I'm sure it'll just further piss me off.
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Post by Mole on Feb 17, 2012 10:07:44 GMT -5
I'm all for Sting Operations to catch actual criminals, but this seems to be borderline entrapment to me. Is it really? It's not like the guys running the sting came in there and said, "Hey, sweet iPad and wallet! You should totally take those without even trying to process it through your company's way of returning lost items to passengers!" They just left it there. The bus driver had to decide to take it and keep it with him when he went home. I'm positive that the bus company has procedures for returning lost items to customers and from what Milincoln was explaining, he didn't attempt to do that. That's not entrapment. That's like saying bait cars are entrapment.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Feb 17, 2012 10:40:17 GMT -5
Last week I found a coin purse sitting on the rail going down a hallway. It was sitting there for a few days. After a few days I opened it and saw there was $65 in it. I went to each person who lives down that hallway and asked if the coin purse was theirs. Nobody claimed it. I didn't turn it into the front desk because who knows where it would end up. I've worked here for 10 years doing janitorial stuff so when people lose stuff they always come to me to see if I have found it. Still nobody has come to me. So I still have the coin purse but if it is not claimed by the end of the week then is it wrong of me to keep it? I tried to find it's owner. I would say no. You've kept it for a week. You've looked for the owner. I might ask the people at the front desk if anyone has come looking for it. Beyond that, I wouldn't feel bad keeping it.
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Post by LeighD on Feb 17, 2012 19:04:15 GMT -5
Last week I found a coin purse sitting on the rail going down a hallway. It was sitting there for a few days. After a few days I opened it and saw there was $65 in it. I went to each person who lives down that hallway and asked if the coin purse was theirs. Nobody claimed it. I didn't turn it into the front desk because who knows where it would end up. I've worked here for 10 years doing janitorial stuff so when people lose stuff they always come to me to see if I have found it. Still nobody has come to me. So I still have the coin purse but if it is not claimed by the end of the week then is it wrong of me to keep it? I tried to find it's owner. See right there. You tried to find out if anyone lost anything. nothing. You held on to it thinking maybe someone would come by and ask if anything was found. Nothing, yet. So in your case, I'd say if after while has gone by and no one has claimed it, keep it. The whole situation of the "sting" sounds like entrapment, But from the simple POV: he found said items, put them in his bag, and brough said bag to his personal truck. I'd consider it stealing.
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Post by Halloween King on Feb 17, 2012 22:01:53 GMT -5
I wasnt there when it happened so I dont know, but from what I've been told it goes like this. He found the items and then put them in his truck. Once he turned around he was surrounded and detained. Here is where I think things arent right. They detained him and accused him of theft on the spot. He was not given a chance to call it in, he wasnt given a chance to turn it into disptach. I would think he could claim he was putting it in his truck for safe keeping. I think they would be able to call it theft if at the end of the day he was going to go home with out mention of his finds. But to detain the man right away? Seems to iffy to me. As far as the wallet I found. All I can say is we were in line for a very busy haunted house. Im sure that eventually had it not been me someone else would have found the money. Do I feel bad for the girl, sure. Did I see her in the line? No I didnt. Im not perfect, never claimed to be. If you think me keeping what I found is a jerk move, what ever. Just please dont pretend like you would turn it in just for the sake of comming across as "honest" on here. Also I'll add this. God Bless all of you who are truely that honest/good hearted that you would give something back that you found. Im not that good hearted. If I find something it is mine. I promise you this. I would definitely have turned it in or tried to contact the girl. If I had not done so, my conscience would've eaten me alive to the point that I would've had to have paid her back. That being said, if I found a wallet with no ID or anything like that I probably would've asked people there if they lost a wallet and had them tell me what's inside. Then, if no one could claim it, then yes I would've taken it at that point. So, yeah I'll say it again... It's a jerky move. You could've easily tracked her down and I'm sure she would've been quite thankful. $500 is a lot of money regardless of the situation--never mind when you're still in school. When you're down on your luck, how would you feel if someone took something from you that you worked hard for? ---Don't answer that, I'm sure it'll just further piss me off. You're just a much more kind hearted person than me. I assessed the situation. I saw a wallet on the ground. I picked it up, I looked around, no one looked like the person in the picture. I saw lots of people ahead of me and I saw even more behind me. MAYBE a person like you would have been amoung those in line behind me, idk. But I know people like me were in that line as well. So I knew that eventually someone was going to pocket that cash. So I thought, why not me? This whole trying to tack down the person is not something im going to do. Im not going to take time out of my day to track you down and try and fix your mistake. Sure it stinks to lose things. But I promise you that girl will hold on to her wallet more carefully now after that night. My conscious was fine. I didnt hear violins playing for some poor girls loss. Im not the type of person to pity someone elses stupidity. I saw that money and thought, what an awesome night. One time when I was in H.S. I found a wallet. It had Id and credit cards in it. I went and returned it to the womans house. She looked at me pissed off and demanded I give her the money that was in there. And then she called the police on me. Ever since then I just think to myself. You found it, it's yours now. Or you can try and be a good guy only to be accused of being a theif. One route equals me enjoying some extra money. The other route equals me losing my personal time, being called a thief, and having to deal with police. My conscious says, enjoy.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Feb 17, 2012 22:04:27 GMT -5
I heard a story today at work. And it just got me thinking. A guy was at work, bus driver, and apparently he was fired for "stealing". Now at first I thought oh well tough break. And then I heard more details. From what I hear he got to work and on his bus was an Ipad, a Wallet, and a few other items. He took the wallet/money and also took the ipad. These Items were not left behind by passangers. They were placed by a security company as part of a sting. Along with the driver a cleaning person was let go. Now I dont consider that stealing. If you find something and pick it up, does that make you a theif? If you notice a passanger leaving an item behind and you didnt tell them so you could keep it, that might make you a theif. But to get there at the start of your day, as you do a pretrip inspection of your vehicle, and you find something, does that make it stealing? I thought that was tough. I know had that been me Id keep the Ipad/money. I just see it as being lucky. Not stealing. Does the fact that he was on the clock make it stealing? If you found an Ipad/money in a mall, you as a fellow customer not an employee, would that be stealing? Thoughts? I kind of get what you are saying. How can it be stealing if there is no way to determine who it belongs to? Unless the wallet has ID....anyone could come in and lay claim to it. HOWEVER, by the legal definition and I am sure by the employer's definition...it is 100% stealing...no grey area.
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Post by Halloween King on Feb 17, 2012 22:11:28 GMT -5
I heard a story today at work. And it just got me thinking. A guy was at work, bus driver, and apparently he was fired for "stealing". Now at first I thought oh well tough break. And then I heard more details. From what I hear he got to work and on his bus was an Ipad, a Wallet, and a few other items. He took the wallet/money and also took the ipad. These Items were not left behind by passangers. They were placed by a security company as part of a sting. Along with the driver a cleaning person was let go. Now I dont consider that stealing. If you find something and pick it up, does that make you a theif? If you notice a passanger leaving an item behind and you didnt tell them so you could keep it, that might make you a theif. But to get there at the start of your day, as you do a pretrip inspection of your vehicle, and you find something, does that make it stealing? I thought that was tough. I know had that been me Id keep the Ipad/money. I just see it as being lucky. Not stealing. Does the fact that he was on the clock make it stealing? If you found an Ipad/money in a mall, you as a fellow customer not an employee, would that be stealing? Thoughts? I kind of get what you are saying. How can it be stealing if there is no way to determine who it belongs to? Unless the wallet has ID....anyone could come in and lay claim to it. HOWEVER, by the legal definition and I am sure by the employer's definition...it is 100% stealing...no grey area. The funny thing is his company is a joke as far as firing people. Had his company caught him he'd be back working by now. His company always buckles to the Union. I've seen people working for that company do a lot of dumb poop, they get fired pending an investigation and then they come back. I've seen people use foul language in front of supervisors and custoemrs. They were suspended but came back. I've heard of people stealing diesel, suspended but came back. People stealing food when the bus is catered, and again they eventually came back. The problem with this one guy's case is he was caught by some branch of government. Im not sure if it was Chicago police, or state police, or feds, or who, but they dont want the guy back. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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Post by Epic Z on Feb 21, 2012 1:09:29 GMT -5
I was going to turn it in I swear...can't believe I got fired.
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Post by juicewinslow on Feb 21, 2012 5:13:41 GMT -5
I forgot about that $500 you found once. Of course you wouldn't think it was stealing... Jerk. I wasnt there when it happened so I dont know, but from what I've been told it goes like this. He found the items and then put them in his truck. Once he turned around he was surrounded and detained. Here is where I think things arent right. They detained him and accused him of theft on the spot. He was not given a chance to call it in, he wasnt given a chance to turn it into disptach. I would think he could claim he was putting it in his truck for safe keeping. I think they would be able to call it theft if at the end of the day he was going to go home with out mention of his finds. But to detain the man right away? Seems to iffy to me. As far as the wallet I found. All I can say is we were in line for a very busy haunted house. Im sure that eventually had it not been me someone else would have found the money. Do I feel bad for the girl, sure. Did I see her in the line? No I didnt. Im not perfect, never claimed to be. If you think me keeping what I found is a jerk move, what ever. Just please dont pretend like you would turn it in just for the sake of comming across as "honest" on here. Also I'll add this. God Bless all of you who are truely that honest/good hearted that you would give something back that you found. Im not that good hearted. If I find something it is mine. Personally, I would have turned it into the police. You know how thankful I would be if I lost that, and someone returned it? I would probably give them about a hundred bucks just for doing the right thing. But, that's just me.
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