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Post by hulkhogancollector on Feb 27, 2012 22:27:26 GMT -5
Got this info from Kayfabe Memories interesting notes Yokozuna bigger draw than Bret Hart
Based off the data I collected in my last post (90's Attendance & Interest plummets) I saw some responses making reference to how different champions drew. I’ve taken the original data and filtered by championship reign 1990 – 1995.
A few disclaimers:
*Averages include any match the heavyweight champion was involved in (tag matches, 6 man tags, etc)
*Does not include PPV event attendance or house shows outside the US
*As stated in my previous post, I have the dates only available from personal wrestling observers, online wrestling observers and history of wwf.com. There are shows that occurred that no attendance data is available. However, in any statistical analysis, I was able to obtain enough attendance data to reasonably assume the average of each title reign.
ENJOY
1990
*Hulk Hogan: 21 dates with an average of 11,043 per show
*Ultimate Warrior: 90 dates with an average of 6,552 per show
1991:
*Ultimate Warrior: 3 dates with an average of 7,265 per show
*Sergeant Slaughter: 12 dates with an average of 8,158 per show
*Hulk Hogan: 46 dates with an average of 8,402 per show
1992:
*Ric Flair (1st reign): 31 dates with an average of 6,635 per show
*Randy Savage: 37 dates with an average of 4,519 per show
*Ric Flair (2nd reign): 12 dates with an average of 4,825 per show
*Bret hart: 19 dates with an average of 3,484 per show
1993:
*Bret Hart: 32 dates with an average of 3,863 per show
*Hulk Hogan: 11 dates with an average of 5,982 per show
*Yokozuna: 61 dates with an average of 4,289 per show
1994:
*Yokozuna: 13 dates with an average of 3,823 per show
*Bret Hart: 66 dates with an average of 3,985 per show
*Diesel: 8 dates with an average of 2,103 per show
1995:
*Diesel: 58 dates with an average of 3,095 per show
*Bret Hart: 20 dates with an average of 3,175 per show
Observations:
*Without some MSG, Montreal & MLG shows to beef the average up Bret Hart, Yokozuna and Diesel did not draw well at all. Many shows outside bigger markets drew only 1,000 – 2,500 fans. Even the bigger markets were not sold out perhaps averaging 7,500 – 10,000 fans.
*Hulk Hogan’s 11 dates on 1993 were all tag matches: Hogan & Beefcake vs Money Inc.
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jakksking1
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Post by jakksking1 on Feb 28, 2012 0:05:25 GMT -5
I dont know if the attendance averages are accurate ways to depict drawing power. I remember going to see WWF house shows at a local arena that was always sold out. Only thing is it only held 3,000. Another thing that probably killed the attendance numbers was Monday Night Raw. It was held in the bingo hall for a couple years. I dont think WWF switching to smaller arenas was a reflection of their main event talent. The product was god awful for a period in the mid 90's. Wrestling in general was terrible. WCW was airing from tiny arenas, even with Hogan and Savage as their main draws.
For drawing, i'd also look at ratings, PPV buys and merchandise sales. Obviously, no one is going to come close to Hogan.
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Feb 28, 2012 0:16:08 GMT -5
I dont know if the attendance averages are accurate ways to depict drawing power. I remember going to see WWF house shows at a local arena that was always sold out. Only thing is it only held 3,000. Another thing that probably killed the attendance numbers was Monday Night Raw. It was held in the bingo hall for a couple years. I dont think WWF switching to smaller arenas was a reflection of their main event talent. The product was god awful for a period in the mid 90's. Wrestling in general was terrible. WCW was airing from tiny arenas, even with Hogan and Savage as their main draws. For drawing, i'd also look at ratings, PPV buys and merchandise sales. Obviously, no one is going to come close to Hogan. Just look at these comparison numbers Hulk Hogan: 21 dates with an average of 11,043 per show *Ultimate Warrior: 90 dates with an average of 6,552 per show No wonder Vince wanted the belt off of Warrior, Interest dropped big time, and all that hot air bravado on the part of Bret Hart, he was a terrible draw as champion, Hogan dropped the belt to Yoko for business reasons the numbers prove that. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2012 1:29:22 GMT -5
Not fair to ever put attendance on one man's shoulders. When Hogan was on top there was also Andre, Savage, etc.
When Austin was on top there was also Rock, Foley, Undertaker, etc.
When guys like Bret and Diesel were on top it was really only them. Bret and Diesel were pretty much forced to carry the company on their shoulders ALONE due to a shortage of other top guys.
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Post by punksnotdead on Feb 28, 2012 10:05:57 GMT -5
When you have individual merchandise totals, call me.
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jakksking1
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Post by jakksking1 on Feb 28, 2012 10:19:35 GMT -5
Yeah like Bash said, its really unfair to put attendance on 1 persons shoulders. Hart and Diesel had no one backing them up, the product was god awful. However, they still sold a boat load of merchandise. As for the Hogan/Warrior numbers, i'd like to see your data. According to this site, which I trust, his averages aren't nearly as bad as 6,000 per event. The Japan event in 1990 drew 53k alone. www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/the-ultimate-warrior-88.html |
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jakksking1
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Post by jakksking1 on Feb 28, 2012 10:35:14 GMT -5
And it also doesn't make sense to cut out Pay Per Views. Warrior/Hogan Mania did a 3.8 buyrate, which is a hell of a buyrate.
Summerslam 1990, headlined by Warrior/Rick Rude steel cage did a..... 3.8 buyrate. Only time in history that Summerslam matched a Wrestlemania buyrate. You can't discount that huge number.
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Feb 28, 2012 14:27:09 GMT -5
And it also doesn't make sense to cut out Pay Per Views. Warrior/Hogan Mania did a 3.8 buyrate, which is a hell of a buyrate. Summerslam 1990, headlined by Warrior/Rick Rude steel cage did a..... 3.8 buyrate. Only time in history that Summerslam matched a Wrestlemania buyrate. You can't discount that huge number. I'm not discounting Summerslam 90 buyrate but are you trying to tell me people bought that PPV to see Warrior and Rude?? You take Hogan and the Earthquake angle off the card and the interests levels off big time. Hulk, even not as champion, was drawing the crowds. Show some numbers Warrior main evented alone without Hogan on the card, as I did above, I'm not putting anyone down, just found the numbers interesting, and speaks to many things. |
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jakksking1
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Joined on: Feb 2, 2011 14:45:41 GMT -5
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Post by jakksking1 on Feb 28, 2012 14:38:24 GMT -5
Like I asked before, where did you get your numbers. I can't find 91 live events that Warrior performed at in 1990 (that aren't PPV/ overseas). Where did you get those figures from, i'd like to see them.
I could only find hard data on 2 house shows during Warrior's run where he was Champ during 1990, and Hogan wasn't on the card
3/19/90: 9,500
9/21/90: 11,000
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Post by punksnotdead on Feb 28, 2012 14:41:43 GMT -5
And it also doesn't make sense to cut out Pay Per Views. Warrior/Hogan Mania did a 3.8 buyrate, which is a hell of a buyrate. Summerslam 1990, headlined by Warrior/Rick Rude steel cage did a..... 3.8 buyrate. Only time in history that Summerslam matched a Wrestlemania buyrate. You can't discount that huge number. I'm not discounting Summerslam 90 buyrate but are you trying to tell me people bought that PPV to see Warrior and Rude?? You take Hogan and the Earthquake angle off the card and the interests levels off big time. Hulk, even not as champion, was drawing the crowds. Show some numbers Warrior main evented alone without Hogan on the card, as I did above, I'm not putting anyone down, just found the numbers interesting, and speaks to many things. Yeah but it works both ways. Do you really think Yokozuna was outdrawing Bret Hart? Just because Bret didn't have the title, doesn't mean they weren't paying to see him on the card. There are so many variables you have to take into consideration when evaluating PPV and live event draws. To me, you just proved your own point as to why those numbers don't tell whole story. Attendance was down during the New Gen across the board, doesn't mean it can be directly correlated to one guy. Lets say that Bret had been in the spot Diesel was in during 1995, we can't say for certain that those numbers would have been better or worse because both guys were on every single card. The only even moderate way to evaluate draw power, without asking every single fan why they are at the arena, is through merchandise imo. That comes down to the one individual whose face is on that t-shirt, lunchbox, or whatever, at least for the most part. At that point, you can correlate event merchandise sales directly with the live attendance. If I go to a show, and buy a Shawn Michaels t-shirt, then I'm probably there to see Shawn Michaels. Not pure truth, but as close as it gets imo. |
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Feb 28, 2012 19:04:37 GMT -5
Yeah like Bash said, its really unfair to put attendance on 1 persons shoulders. Hart and Diesel had no one backing them up, the product was god awful. However, they still sold a boat load of merchandise. As for the Hogan/Warrior numbers, i'd like to see your data. According to this site, which I trust, his averages aren't nearly as bad as 6,000 per event. The Japan event in 1990 drew 53k alone. www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/the-ultimate-warrior-88.htmlThe Japanese event with Hogan vs Hansen? Their match drew way more fan interest than Warrior vs Million Dollar Man. Hogan vs Hansen would sell out 50 thousand seats in Japan just by themselves. |
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Feb 28, 2012 19:05:32 GMT -5
Like I asked before, where did you get your numbers. I can't find 91 live events that Warrior performed at in 1990 (that aren't PPV/ overseas). Where did you get those figures from, i'd like to see them. I could only find hard data on 2 house shows during Warrior's run where he was Champ during 1990, and Hogan wasn't on the card 3/19/90: 9,500 9/21/90: 11,000 I got this info from Kayfabe Memories, here is the thread www.infinitecore.ca/superstar/index.php?threadid=74229 |
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HuskerTornado
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Post by HuskerTornado on Feb 28, 2012 19:14:15 GMT -5
I dont know if the attendance averages are accurate ways to depict drawing power. I remember going to see WWF house shows at a local arena that was always sold out. Only thing is it only held 3,000. Another thing that probably killed the attendance numbers was Monday Night Raw. It was held in the bingo hall for a couple years. I dont think WWF switching to smaller arenas was a reflection of their main event talent. The product was god awful for a period in the mid 90's. Wrestling in general was terrible. WCW was airing from tiny arenas, even with Hogan and Savage as their main draws. For drawing, i'd also look at ratings, PPV buys and merchandise sales. Obviously, no one is going to come close to Hogan. Just look at these comparison numbers Hulk Hogan: 21 dates with an average of 11,043 per show *Ultimate Warrior: 90 dates with an average of 6,552 per show
No wonder Vince wanted the belt off of Warrior, Interest dropped big time, and all that hot air bravado on the part of Bret Hart, he was a terrible draw as champion, Hogan dropped the belt to Yoko for business reasons the numbers prove that. None of this is statistically significant unless you compare % of seats sold. Even then, there are a multitude of things that go into drawing power. There are A cities, B cities, and C cities. Hogan wasn't showing up to 3k seat arenas in early 1990. After winning the title, Warrior was paraded all over the country, big and small. |
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HuskerTornado
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Post by HuskerTornado on Feb 28, 2012 19:33:58 GMT -5
And it also doesn't make sense to cut out Pay Per Views. Warrior/Hogan Mania did a 3.8 buyrate, which is a hell of a buyrate. Summerslam 1990, headlined by Warrior/Rick Rude steel cage did a..... 3.8 buyrate. Only time in history that Summerslam matched a Wrestlemania buyrate. You can't discount that huge number. I'm not discounting Summerslam 90 buyrate but are you trying to tell me people bought that PPV to see Warrior and Rude?? You take Hogan and the Earthquake angle off the card and the interests levels off big time. Hulk, even not as champion, was drawing the crowds. Show some numbers Warrior main evented alone without Hogan on the card, as I did above, I'm not putting anyone down, just found the numbers interesting, and speaks to many things. Hogan utilized backstage politics (threatening to leave) to get the feud with Earthquake (the latest and greatest unbeatable heel). This was an attempt to sabotage Warrior's title reign, really before it started (These wheels were in motion before Wrestlemania). Earthquake was a big draw because he was putting somebody on a stretcher every night. There were some great mid-card heels at the time, but few established main event heels (I think they dropped the ball on giving some of these guys a push). Rude was still there, however, and had good chemistry with Warrior, so they began that feud again. People were looking forward to the match, though, because it was a cage match, something the two had not been seen in before. I've seen the actual data on house show seat #s and the numbers are virtually the same when Savage, Hogan, and Warrior were champs (looking at same-arena statistics). |
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