Tyler Black
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the former #1 Tyler Black fan/Tyler F'n Black
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Post by Tyler Black on Mar 5, 2012 1:14:03 GMT -5
If wcw early-mid 2000 had never happened and WCW late 2000- 2001 happened instead do you think that it could have survived and avoided being brought out by Vince? WCW did a complete 180 after Russo left and they had Steiner and Booker as there top guys. Their fued was awesome and was stretched out for almost a year.
Edit* Decided to change the topic to what punksnotdead posted. What if WCW had been brought by Eric Bishoff instead of Vince? Could it have survived?
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jakksking1
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Post by jakksking1 on Mar 5, 2012 1:18:26 GMT -5
Probably not. They had a huge problem with pushing young talent, the contracts on the books were quite bad, and it still gave too much power to the higher tier wrestlers to book themselves. WCW may have lasted a bit longer, but it wasn't looking good. The NWO and Goldberg was the major reason WCW had gained strong ratings. Outside of that, WCW did very little to come up with new or different angles that were popular. Towards the end, it looked like they were out of ideas.
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Post by Nivro™ on Mar 5, 2012 3:21:53 GMT -5
No. WCW was in financial distress all the way back in the Jim Crockett days. I think they only actually turned a profit twice in the 10+ years they were active.
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Post by cordless2016 on Mar 5, 2012 10:06:07 GMT -5
Even if WCW was doing well in 2000, after the Time Warner/AOL merger, they wanted nothing to do w/ wrestling. Ted Turner couldn't do anything, and they were going to sell the company no matter what. The only differance would have been that Vince probably wouldn't have bought WCW if it was for more money.
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Post by punksnotdead on Mar 5, 2012 10:21:35 GMT -5
I think the better question would be, if Eric Bischoff purchased WCW do you think it would still be around, and to that I say yes. WCW in 2001 was an entirely different product than what we saw even a year prior. With guys like Bagwell, Vampiro, Steiner, Sting, Jarrett, Goldberg, Nash, DDP, and Booker T and then all the young cruiserweight talent like AJ Styles and Daniels, and then you had guys like America's Most Wanted coming out of the Power Plant, and the Thrillers already on the roster and there was so much talent to compete with WWE. They would have continued to be an alternative.
It would have been the home for plenty of the ECW misfits as well. TNA never would have happened. So remember that guys like Chris Sabin, Samoa Joe, and Team Canada would have all more than likely called WCW home. Not to mention, guys like Raven and Macho Man Randy Savage would have found their way back. Angle and Jeff Hardy jumping ship would have been huge.
Would it have ever become what WWE did or even get back to where they were? No, I don't think so, but I do honestly believe that they would still be around and that they would be better off than where TNA is at right now, even though I think TNA is getting good again in terms of the quality of their product.
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Post by cordless2016 on Mar 5, 2012 10:32:56 GMT -5
I think the better question would be, if Eric Bischoff purchased WCW do you think it would still be around, and to that I say yes. WCW in 2001 was an entirely different product than what we saw even a year prior. With guys like Bagwell, Vampiro, Steiner, Sting, Jarrett, Goldberg, Nash, DDP, and Booker T and then all the young cruiserweight talent like AJ Styles and Daniels, and then you had guys like America's Most Wanted coming out of the Power Plant, and the Thrillers already on the roster and there was so much talent to compete with WWE. They would have continued to be an alternative. It would have been the home for plenty of the ECW misfits as well. TNA never would have happened. So remember that guys like Chris Sabin, Samoa Joe, and Team Canada would have all more than likely called WCW home. Not to mention, guys like Raven and Macho Man Randy Savage would have found their way back. Angle and Jeff Hardy jumping ship would have been huge. Would it have ever become what WWE did or even get back to where they were? No, I don't think so, but I do honestly believe that they would still be around and that they would be better off than where TNA is at right now, even though I think TNA is getting good again in terms of the quality of their product. Agreed 100%. From the time Booker and Steiner began feuding over the world title until the company was sold, WCW was turning around IMO. Steiner and Booker were having a great feud that the fans were enjoying, and the storylines began to make sense, and alot of younger guys from the power plant were starting to debut in the company. WCW had the right talent. Rob Van Dam even said that he was set to debut in WCW before the company was sold. And w/ Hogan's contract almost up as well, WCW didn't have to worry about his "creative control" ruining their storylines either. It just needed someone to lead the company in the right direction. Was Bischoff that guy? I don't know, because he seemed to rely on the "shock" factor too much, which ended up making storylines confusing at times. But who knows, maybe he would have been able to lead WCW back to respectibility. |
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Tyler Black
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the former #1 Tyler Black fan/Tyler F'n Black
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Post by Tyler Black on Mar 6, 2012 20:44:00 GMT -5
I think the better question would be, if Eric Bischoff purchased WCW do you think it would still be around, and to that I say yes. WCW in 2001 was an entirely different product than what we saw even a year prior. With guys like Bagwell, Vampiro, Steiner, Sting, Jarrett, Goldberg, Nash, DDP, and Booker T and then all the young cruiserweight talent like AJ Styles and Daniels, and then you had guys like America's Most Wanted coming out of the Power Plant, and the Thrillers already on the roster and there was so much talent to compete with WWE. They would have continued to be an alternative. It would have been the home for plenty of the ECW misfits as well. TNA never would have happened. So remember that guys like Chris Sabin, Samoa Joe, and Team Canada would have all more than likely called WCW home. Not to mention, guys like Raven and Macho Man Randy Savage would have found their way back. Angle and Jeff Hardy jumping ship would have been huge. Would it have ever become what WWE did or even get back to where they were? No, I don't think so, but I do honestly believe that they would still be around and that they would be better off than where TNA is at right now, even though I think TNA is getting good again in terms of the quality of their product. Agreed 100%. From the time Booker and Steiner began feuding over the world title until the company was sold, WCW was turning around IMO. Steiner and Booker were having a great feud that the fans were enjoying, and the storylines began to make sense, and alot of younger guys from the power plant were starting to debut in the company. WCW had the right talent. Rob Van Dam even said that he was set to debut in WCW before the company was sold. And w/ Hogan's contract almost up as well, WCW didn't have to worry about his "creative control" ruining their storylines either. It just needed someone to lead the company in the right direction. Was Bischoff that guy? I don't know, because he seemed to rely on the "shock" factor too much, which ended up making storylines confusing at times. But who knows, maybe he would have been able to lead WCW back to respectibility. I've never heard of Van Dam joining WCW. Do you have anymore info on that? Where would he have fit in? |
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Post by cordless2016 on Mar 6, 2012 20:58:43 GMT -5
Agreed 100%. From the time Booker and Steiner began feuding over the world title until the company was sold, WCW was turning around IMO. Steiner and Booker were having a great feud that the fans were enjoying, and the storylines began to make sense, and alot of younger guys from the power plant were starting to debut in the company. WCW had the right talent. Rob Van Dam even said that he was set to debut in WCW before the company was sold. And w/ Hogan's contract almost up as well, WCW didn't have to worry about his "creative control" ruining their storylines either. It just needed someone to lead the company in the right direction. Was Bischoff that guy? I don't know, because he seemed to rely on the "shock" factor too much, which ended up making storylines confusing at times. But who knows, maybe he would have been able to lead WCW back to respectibility. I've never heard of Van Dam joining WCW. Do you have anymore info on that? Where would he have fit in? "One last question about 2001, I was working as the editor of WCW Magazine at that time when it appeared that a group led by Eric Bischoff was going to buy the company. One of the rumors we were hearing was that Bischoff had made a deal with you to become part of the new WCW. Was that true? 'Yeah, that’s funny, I forgot about that until just now. That’s when he was dealing with Fusient, and they had some money, so, yeah, that was discussed. I was on board, but it didn’t work out.'" Rob says he was talkign w/ Bischoff about possibly going to WCW when it re-debuted. I think it was a real possibility he would have ended up there as going by the rest of the interview, he never really wanted to sign w/ the WWF but they were the only company left. Not surprised to hear he didn't enjoy his WWE time though. He was arguably the most over guy in 2002, yet the WWE fed him to Taker, Lesnar, and HHH. Had Rob turned up in WCW, I think he would have started in the mid-card and eventually became a top star there. Hogan was gone, and alot of the other bad contracts were also almost up. WCW was less strict on how to run a match, so I think Rob would have been more comfotable doing his thing. He's probably start in the Hardcore division like he did in the WWF, and due to his popularity, would move up to the US Title, and eventually the World Title. Remember that this wasn't the old WCW were guys were held down. Bischoff needed to be smart, and since alot of the "creative control" contracts were gone, he'd be able to let storylines play out and push the guys who were over. |
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Tyler Black
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the former #1 Tyler Black fan/Tyler F'n Black
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Post by Tyler Black on Mar 6, 2012 21:34:22 GMT -5
Wow crazy stuff never knew he was going to be in the new WCW only problem is that if it did happen he would run into Steiner at somepoint and I would have had to choose between them lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2012 22:03:09 GMT -5
I don't think so...
They just couldn't compete with WWF in 2000-2001.
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Post by cordless2016 on Mar 6, 2012 22:39:05 GMT -5
Wow crazy stuff never knew he was going to be in the new WCW only problem is that if it did happen he would run into Steiner at somepoint and I would have had to choose between them lol lol same. I was and am a huge fan of both of them. Had Bischoff been able to buy WCW, the company had a great chance to turn around. I don't think they would have caught the WWF, atleast at that point, but maybe if it could survive a few years it had a good chance to be a true rival again. The top guys would have been Goldberg, Steiner, Sting, Booker T, Jeff Jarrett, Kevin Nash, DDP, eventually RVD and Rey Mysterio, and they also had a bunch of younger guys coming up like Sean O'Haire, AJ Styles, and Christopher Daniels. Add in the fact that they would have gotten some of the indy guys like Punk, Samoa Joe, and Bryan Danielson, and WCW had a chance at a bright future. |
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jakksking1
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Post by jakksking1 on Mar 6, 2012 22:56:43 GMT -5
I dont think WCW would have lasted much longer with Bischoff. WCW would automatically lose one of its best assets: unlimited money. Bishoff may have been able to buy WCW, but I doubt he would have had the financial stability to throw huge money at wrestlers like Turner was doing. The same rules would have applied if he purchased WCW: Hogan, Steiner, Goldberg, Flair, Nash and the rest of the Time Warner contracts guys would have sat on their asses at home and collected their paycheck. That leaves Bishoff competing against a hot WWF product without 4 or 5 of his top draws.
On top of that, the ratings were in the toilet. Bishoff didnt push young talent. The product was stale, and it was stale in large part because of Bishoff. Bishoff didnt have the personality to survive with that sort of product. WCW may have survived if it took a TNA route with lower production value. However, that isn't Bishoff's game.
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Post by cordless2016 on Mar 6, 2012 23:41:06 GMT -5
I dont think WCW would have lasted much longer with Bischoff. WCW would automatically lose one of its best assets: unlimited money. Bishoff may have been able to buy WCW, but I doubt he would have had the financial stability to throw huge money at wrestlers like Turner was doing. The same rules would have applied if he purchased WCW: Hogan, Steiner, Goldberg, Flair, Nash and the rest of the Time Warner contracts guys would have sat on their asses at home and collected their paycheck. That leaves Bishoff competing against a hot WWF product without 4 or 5 of his top draws. On top of that, the ratings were in the toilet. Bishoff didnt push young talent. The product was stale, and it was stale in large part because of Bishoff. Bishoff didnt have the personality to survive with that sort of product. WCW may have survived if it took a TNA route with lower production value. However, that isn't Bishoff's game. Bischoff only really would have needed to bring in Steiner and Goldberg from the guys you listed. WCW needed Hogan and Nash to go away more than they needed them on TV. They were two big reasons as to why WCW was in that predicament to begin w/. And w/ the investment group Bischoff was putting together, he'd have the money to get the key guys he needed. And I think its unfair to say Bischoff was a large part the product being stale. He had a part, but I definatly think that Hogan, Nash, and Russo played just as big of a role, if not more, than he did. Bischoff had good ideas, but most never panned out because Hogan and others would use their creative control to change storylines out of no where after weeks of buildup. While Bischoff made mistakes like unmasking Rey Mysterio and misusing the creuserweights and smaller guys, he did have good storylines for the main eventers and top mid-carders from 1996-1998. He is credited w/ the great buildup of The Outiders, to Hogan's famous heel turn and nWo run, the amazing year long feud between Hogan and Sting, and the huge build of Goldberg to the world title. He put guys like Scott Steiner, Booker T, DDP, Raven, Macho Man, and Chris Benoit in great mid-card feuds, and he did make a legit alternative to the WWF w/ the Creusierweight division and a more edgier product before the WWF began the attitude era. Bischoff has his share of the blame w/ what happened to WCW, but there were alot of others guys who had a part too. I think a great deal of his mishandling of superstars was due to Hogan and others creative control that completly ruined most of his ideas and kept the same old guys in the same place. People say WCW never made any stars, but Bischoff helped make Goldberg, Steiner, Booker T, and DDP all top guys. Steiner and Booker won world titles when Russo was in charge, but Bischoff did a great job building them in the mid-card from 1997-1998 when both had basically been tag team guys for years. |
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jakksking1
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Post by jakksking1 on Mar 7, 2012 0:07:27 GMT -5
Its a catch-22 though. He wouldn't have taken on Nash, Hogan, Hall, Flair or Luger once their contracts were up, but Vince would. So a year down the line after Fusient was to supposedly purchase WCW, you'd have Hogan/Hall/Nash/Flair and potentially Rey Mysterio in the WWE. Nitro was already in the gutter. Take out their big draws and throw them in the WWE, they wouldve gotten hammered even harder.
I think Bishoffs ego would have eventually gotten the best of him. He wasn't going to take down Vince. He also wasn't going to switch Nitro to a different night. I think thats the only way WCW could have survived. As much as you may like them, not many people were going to be changing the channel to see Steiner/Booker feud, or Vampiro and DDP when Austin v. Rock is on the other channel.
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Post by Nivro™ on Mar 7, 2012 0:46:02 GMT -5
Even with Bisch buying I still dont think it would be around now. As I said previously, the company was under water from the very beginning, once the economic problems came earlier this decade...It would have toasted em.
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Post by lastoutlaw on Mar 7, 2012 1:14:24 GMT -5
I think it could of survived only for a little later. Bishoff has a great mind for the buisness, but at that time not many top superstars were leaving the WWE, and without that WCW was nothing. they just needed 1 big jump from WWE to WCW, maybe HBK or someone could of changed it. history is kind of hard to predict when you ask "What if"
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