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Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 16, 2014 6:09:47 GMT -5
Watching ASW X night two. I really hate how they act like Elgin is some four hundred pound guy. Sure its impressive when someone like ACH picks him up. But things like a Trent? Sunset flip should work. No need to make him seem bigger then he is and not be able to be sunset flipped only for Trent? to German suplex him with no problem 30 seconds later. Elgin is a big guy but he's no 400 pounder like he used to be. He needs to stop acting like he's bigger then he is. That's my only gripe with Elgin. On the topic of ASWX watched night one last night pretty great show. Not my favorite but it wasn't bad. Night two has been enjoyable thus far. Elgin has NEVER been 400 pounds. He weighs like 260 which is considerably more than most of the guys he works with, so him acting like he's bigger than he is works because he's one of the biggest guys on the indies. Joe used that to his advantage, but calling Samoa Joe a "smarter worker" than Michael Elgin is arguably the understatement of the millennium. My problem with Elgin is the ridiculous amount of moves he does that other guys do and that he doesn't really seem to understand the point of selling...but that's certainly not exclusive to him. When he was just doing power sh-t back in 2011-2012, he was awesome. He goes to PWG, sees what everyone else is doing, decides he can do it to and his work has suffered tremendously ever since. I'm a fan of the guy, but goddamn. OK maybe he was 350. You ever see 07-08 Michael Elgin? Dude was  ing fat. And I don't recall Joe ever blocking a sunset flip and going to sit on the guy like he was ing Rikishi. Elgin shouldn't be doing it either. And I agree 100% I hate that he takes guys moves and uses them in other promotions. I noticed his ROH work in particular he uses a lot of other guys stuff. I really miss the MMA style he used in IWA-MS. That was awesome. In still a fan but he does some stuff that's just questionable lately. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 6:27:35 GMT -5
Elgin has NEVER been 400 pounds. He weighs like 260 which is considerably more than most of the guys he works with, so him acting like he's bigger than he is works because he's one of the biggest guys on the indies. Joe used that to his advantage, but calling Samoa Joe a "smarter worker" than Michael Elgin is arguably the understatement of the millennium. My problem with Elgin is the ridiculous amount of moves he does that other guys do and that he doesn't really seem to understand the point of selling...but that's certainly not exclusive to him. When he was just doing power sh-t back in 2011-2012, he was awesome. He goes to PWG, sees what everyone else is doing, decides he can do it to and his work has suffered tremendously ever since. I'm a fan of the guy, but goddamn. OK maybe he was 350. You ever see 07-08 Michael Elgin? Dude was ing fat. And I don't recall Joe ever blocking a sunset flip and going to sit on the guy like he was ing Rikishi. Elgin shouldn't be doing it either. And I agree 100% I hate that he takes guys moves and uses them in other promotions. I noticed his ROH work in particular he uses a lot of other guys stuff. I really miss the MMA style he used in IWA-MS. That was awesome. In still a fan but he does some stuff that's just questionable lately. I don't recall Elgin ever looking like a total fatass. I just found clips of him and Ethan Page in IWA and Elgin doesn't look like he's 350 here. What I'm saying is that Joe knew how to use his size to his advantage, he knew what to allow smaller opponents to do and what he wouldn't let them do. Elgin doesn't have any concept of that...or psychology...or selling. He was so much better in 2011 and 2012 than he is now. In one match on ROH TV a few months ago, Elgin did the Sheamus kick, the bullhammer and like five other dudes finishes en route to winning a match. What the hell happened to him? |
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 16, 2014 7:13:12 GMT -5
OK maybe he was 350. You ever see 07-08 Michael Elgin? Dude was ing fat. And I don't recall Joe ever blocking a sunset flip and going to sit on the guy like he was ing Rikishi. Elgin shouldn't be doing it either. And I agree 100% I hate that he takes guys moves and uses them in other promotions. I noticed his ROH work in particular he uses a lot of other guys stuff. I really miss the MMA style he used in IWA-MS. That was awesome. In still a fan but he does some stuff that's just questionable lately. I don't recall Elgin ever looking like a total fatass. I just found clips of him and Ethan Page in IWA and Elgin doesn't look like he's 350 here. What I'm saying is that Joe knew how to use his size to his advantage, he knew what to allow smaller opponents to do and what he wouldn't let them do. Elgin doesn't have any concept of that...or psychology...or selling. He was so much better in 2011 and 2012 than he is now. In one match on ROH TV a few months ago, Elgin did the Sheamus kick, the bullhammer and like five other dudes finishes en route to winning a match. What the hell happened to him?  If he's around 260 now. He's is easily pushing 325-350 here. |
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 16, 2014 7:24:45 GMT -5
He sure was a meaty dude back then, (remember the long hair?) but it's probably because of his actual stature as well that he tries to do that...me? I'd rather see someone like Morishima do that spot because for someone like him, it works, not Elgin who can do sentons and topes... Exactly my point. And that fact he does craplike Bump like a 200lb-er for a German suplex from the exact same guy less then a minute later its just bad. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 7:29:39 GMT -5
I don't recall Elgin ever looking like a total fatass. I just found clips of him and Ethan Page in IWA and Elgin doesn't look like he's 350 here. What I'm saying is that Joe knew how to use his size to his advantage, he knew what to allow smaller opponents to do and what he wouldn't let them do. Elgin doesn't have any concept of that...or psychology...or selling. He was so much better in 2011 and 2012 than he is now. In one match on ROH TV a few months ago, Elgin did the Sheamus kick, the bullhammer and like five other dudes finishes en route to winning a match. What the hell happened to him? If he's around 260 now. He's is easily pushing 325-350 here. Touche, I've never seen that. Probably closer to 300 or so there. I'm not going 350, though. That seems a bit much. The ironic part about this picture is in my original reply, I had "I think you're thinking of Sami Callihan here". |
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 16, 2014 8:59:19 GMT -5
If he's around 260 now. He's is easily pushing 325-350 here. Touche, I've never seen that. Probably closer to 300 or so there. I'm not going 350, though. That seems a bit much. The ironic part about this picture is in my original reply, I had "I think you're thinking of Sami Callihan here". Haha. Sami is a freak of nature with how he transformed his body. That guy is a machine. Idk man Elgin made guys look tiny back then that werent the smallest of guys. He was one hefty son of a bitch. If he was still that big this entire discussion would be non-existant. That Elgin could do the spot and not look foolish. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 10:52:05 GMT -5
Touche, I've never seen that. Probably closer to 300 or so there. I'm not going 350, though. That seems a bit much. The ironic part about this picture is in my original reply, I had "I think you're thinking of Sami Callihan here". Haha. Sami is a freak of nature with how he transformed his body. That guy is a machine. Idk man Elgin made guys look tiny back then that werent the smallest of guys. He was one hefty son of a bitch. If he was still that big this entire discussion would be non-existant. That Elgin could do the spot and not look foolish. He sure was a meaty dude back then, (remember the long hair?) but it's probably because of his actual stature as well that he tries to do that...me? I'd rather see someone like Morishima do that spot because for someone like him, it works, not Elgin who can do sentons and topes... Agreed on both counts. I think that's a big problem on the indies now: guys opting to do cool moves and spots and not really thinking about size differences and how they effect their character or how they change certain matches or sequences. Like I noted earlier in the thread, Joe understood how his body type and the size difference changed matches and he would alter what he did to fit the situation. Morishima is the same way. I really wish guys would go more for building substance into matches than doing sequences of MOVEZ~ because there's a lot of really good talent right now. It's kind of crazy how much the indies have changed since I first started following them. |
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Post by Chris Hammers on Jul 17, 2014 13:18:35 GMT -5
If this is locked because of a disagreement, then that's sad. No anger from either myself nor KVE, so I personally wouldn't consider this a "fight". Although I'm sure the powers that be, will... as a discussion on a forum isn't allowed. Haha Quite the contrary, I thought KvE and yourself were being quite behaved as far as debates on the internet go. As long as insults are kept out of it, i'm good. |
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Post by Jack on Jul 18, 2014 2:02:02 GMT -5
Observation: Brian Cage just looks super sloppy in the ring, just looks slightly dangerous in the moves he tries to execute.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 2:26:16 GMT -5
Observation: Brian Cage just looks super sloppy in the ring, just looks slightly dangerous in the moves he tries to execute. I've noticed that. He's good at what he does, but he tends to look a bit reckless. |
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Post by Jack on Jul 18, 2014 2:30:24 GMT -5
Observation: Brian Cage just looks super sloppy in the ring, just looks slightly dangerous in the moves he tries to execute. I've noticed that. He's good at what he does, but he tends to look a bit reckless. Exactly, just a wee bit out of control. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 2:39:49 GMT -5
Even in spite of that powerbomb on the floor, Cage/Ciampa was still (IMO) the best match on Night 1 of BOLA 2013, but that's not saying a lot because I hated that show. Half the tournament matches had pointless time killing instead of building the match, but that's one of my biggest gripes with PWG right now.
Kyle vs. ACH from Night 2 was great, though. That's something I've never said about an ACH match before and I sincerely doubt I ever will again.
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 18, 2014 3:14:23 GMT -5
I love Cage. Dude favorites and retweets my stuff on twitter all the time. I think he can be HUGE in this business. I just feel like he focuses more on his bodybuilding and other outside interests to really be as good as he could be. I still don't understand how he got so ing big, so ing fast. He's literally a machine. The only times I've noticed him being really sloppy though was when he had the groin injury. Its not like he is hurting guys all the time. He just does things awkwardly. He has all the potential in the world. On another note. Just got Sold Our Soul For Rock and Roll today. Hoping to watch it tomorrow. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 3:21:22 GMT -5
Just got Sold Our Soul For Rock and Roll today. Hoping to watch it tomorrow. O'Reilly vs. Cole was probably the best Cole PWG Title match and Strong/Cage is good. Did not care for the rest of the show though. |
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 18, 2014 3:22:56 GMT -5
Just got Sold Our Soul For Rock and Roll today. Hoping to watch it tomorrow. O'Reilly vs. Cole was probably the best Cole PWG Title match and Strong/Cage is good. Did not care for the rest of the show though. Good to know. I'm sure I'll enjoy the entire show. ASWX was the only two PWG shows I havent really enjoyed since becoming a huge PWG fan. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 3:28:40 GMT -5
O'Reilly vs. Cole was probably the best Cole PWG Title match and Strong/Cage is good. Did not care for the rest of the show though. Good to know. I'm sure I'll enjoy the entire show. ASWX was the only two PWG shows I havent really enjoyed since becoming a huge PWG fan. I was going to order those but I heard those shows weren't up to par. How was Davey vs. Gargano? |
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 18, 2014 3:51:52 GMT -5
Good to know. I'm sure I'll enjoy the entire show. ASWX was the only two PWG shows I havent really enjoyed since becoming a huge PWG fan. I was going to order those but I heard those shows weren't up to par. How was Davey vs. Gargano? Absolutely awesome. Mount Rushmore vs. Candace, Joey and Younger was probably my favorite match of the weekend though. |
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 19, 2014 1:37:20 GMT -5
Watched ASW9 night one last night. That gash on the back of Youngers head was disgusting. I'm a deathmatch fan and that cut had me feeling bad for Drake. I was actually disappointed with the match though.
Would you guys consider Steen/super Dragon to be the most violent Guerilla Warfare match? That was the first one I saw and I always use that as the measuring stick so to speak. Any that guys think is a better match?
Rewatching BOLA 12 right now. Haven't seen it in a while. Younger is too underated because of his deathmatch roots, its such a shame.
Edit: After watching ASWX I love that the PWG fans were so behind him. He was easily getting the loudest reactions his last few shows. I still believe he would have dethroned Cole if he didn't trade in his tights for stripes.
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Post by Jack on Jul 19, 2014 1:49:22 GMT -5
Watched ASW9 night one last night. That gash on the back of Youngers head was disgusting. I'm a deathmatch fan and that cut had me feeling bad for Drake. I was actually disappointed with the match though. Would you guys consider Steen/super Dragon to be the most violent Guerilla Warfare match? That was the first one I saw and I always use that as the measuring stick so to speak. Any that guys think is a better match? Rewatching BOLA 12 right now. Haven't seen it in a while. Younger is too underated because of his deathmatch roots, its such a shame. Edit: After watching ASWX I love that the PWG fans were so behind him. He was easily getting the loudest reactions his last few shows. I still believe he would have dethroned Cole if he didn't trade in his tights for stripes. Mate, I will address your point on the ASW 9 Main Event. I am not a "wimpy" kind of guy when it comes to deathmatch wrestling. I dont like it, but I watch TOD and COD each year without any problems. The match was going fine, until the staple, salt, and powerbomb spot. That really grossed me out of it too the point of no return. Look at Steen during the match, he was disgusted. I was disgusted, doesnt belong in PWG folks. |
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 19, 2014 2:01:37 GMT -5
Watched ASW9 night one last night. That gash on the back of Youngers head was disgusting. I'm a deathmatch fan and that cut had me feeling bad for Drake. I was actually disappointed with the match though. Would you guys consider Steen/super Dragon to be the most violent Guerilla Warfare match? That was the first one I saw and I always use that as the measuring stick so to speak. Any that guys think is a better match? Rewatching BOLA 12 right now. Haven't seen it in a while. Younger is too underated because of his deathmatch roots, its such a shame. Edit: After watching ASWX I love that the PWG fans were so behind him. He was easily getting the loudest reactions his last few shows. I still believe he would have dethroned Cole if he didn't trade in his tights for stripes. Mate, I will address your point on the ASW 9 Main Event. I am not a "wimpy" kind of guy when it comes to deathmatch wrestling. I dont like it, but I watch TOD and COD each year without any problems. The match was going fine, until the staple, salt, and powerbomb spot. That really grossed me out of it too the point of no return. Look at Steen during the match, he was disgusted. I was disgusted, doesnt belong in PWG folks. Have you seen Steen/Dragon? I thought that was so much more violent. The most violent part of ASW9 was that gash which happened minutes into the match accidentaly. Everything was very tame IMO. Watching Steen take Psycho Drivers while handcuffed on to Tacks and Barbed wire was a ton more violent and made me a lot more uncomfortable. I don't understand how that match bothered you at all if you can watch TOD and COD. |
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