Raine
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Post by Raine on May 14, 2012 11:15:49 GMT -5
Been watching quite a bit of old WWF lately 1988-91, can't understand why Vince treated former NWA World champs as mid carders with the exception of Ric Flair. Even though they were successful in another company, surely they had more value than middle of the card? When former WCW champions signed with WWF he didn't mind putting the belt on them eg: Goldberg, Booker T, Flair, Giant.
Harley Race was given the lame King gimmick, even though he was one of the greatest NWA champs ever, ditto Rhodes with the ridiculous Polka Dots gimmick.
Then there was Kerry Von Erich, ok he was given the IC belt straight away but I think it was more for shock value as Beefcake was gonna get the IC title at Summerslam 1990 anyway, they soon took it back off him and he became a mid carder.
Ronnie Garvin never got above mid card.
Terry Funk, see Ronnie Garvin.
Ricky Steamboat, who returned in 1991, after holding the NWA title in 1989, was never really given a proper push on return and soon left again.
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Post by jammer311 on May 14, 2012 12:30:57 GMT -5
It's because that era of wrestling was dominated by Hulk Hogan. I am sure that Race, Steamboat, Funk, Garvin and such were just happy making all that sweet cash from having Hogan being on top.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 12:37:40 GMT -5
Yeah, most of them cared about money more than being the man. Also considering Hogan was the top face in the company, not many other people could draw that well.
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Post by Nivro™ on May 14, 2012 12:44:20 GMT -5
Dont forget guys like Race, Garvin, Dory Funk were all also coming to the end of their careers. Rhodes has said his deal was more about "not being the guy" and being able to just relax and have fun. There was a ton of heat and pressure on him from his NWA days with him being the booker and former champ and arguably the biggest face they had. In the WWF he could just relax and work. Also most older fans will tell you, Ronnie Garvin should have never held the NWA title himself so its no surprised he was a mid carder in WWF.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 13:46:11 GMT -5
Dont forget guys like Race, Garvin, Dory Funk were all also coming to the end of their careers. Rhodes has said his deal was more about "not being the guy" and being able to just relax and have fun. There was a ton of heat and pressure on him from his NWA days with him being the booker and former champ and arguably the biggest face they had. In the WWF he could just relax and work. Also most older fans will tell you, Ronnie Garvin should have never held the NWA title himself so its no surprised he was a mid carder in WWF. Yeah regradless of what promotion he was in Ron Garvin didn't belong near the top of the card. As for Steamboat in 1991 (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but wasn't he about to take time off to be with his family?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 14:05:23 GMT -5
with steamboat that was 87 man.shortly after he won the IC title from Savage,Steamboat wanted time off.thus he was jobbed out to Honky as punishment from Vince who was Legit furious with Steamboat.
Harley Race was in the twilight of his in ring career and he knew he was there to be fed to Hogan and beef up the Heenan family with a "name"
Garvin(as said above should never have been champ)and left down south over $$.just like Arn,Tully,Windham and many others.
Von Erich.....whoo boy.Vince pushed Von erich to the moon.he was said to be very fond of him........initially
1)He got the injured Beefcakes spot AND result @ Summerslam 90...the then prestigous IC belt. 2)As IC Champ he spent heaps of time tagging with WWF Champ The Warrior and was on the joint main team at Survivors Series 90 with 2 of the 3 most over acts in the Company -Warrior and LOD.
BUT Kerry was such a weak pillhead its unreal.he held up a plabe of wrestlers leaving Stamford because he couldnt record his vignette he was so burnt.by December 90 its felt Vince HAD to take the belt from him.
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Bullgod
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Post by Bullgod on May 14, 2012 16:13:34 GMT -5
I think Kerry Von Erichs problem was that he was his own worst enemy. I think what kept him from getting higher up in WWF than the Intercontinental title is the same thing that kept him from having a long run with the NWA title which was his reliability. I know kerry spent the majority of 92 dealing with drug charges and then we all know what happened in 93. A Shame because Kerry seemed to be the kind of guy that Vince would jiz all over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 16:37:27 GMT -5
Dont forget guys like Race, Garvin, Dory Funk were all also coming to the end of their careers. Rhodes has said his deal was more about "not being the guy" and being able to just relax and have fun. There was a ton of heat and pressure on him from his NWA days with him being the booker and former champ and arguably the biggest face they had. In the WWF he could just relax and work. Also most older fans will tell you, Ronnie Garvin should have never held the NWA title himself so its no surprised he was a mid carder in WWF. Yeah regradless of what promotion he was in Ron Garvin didn't belong near the top of the card. As for Steamboat in 1991 (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but wasn't he about to take time off to be with his family? I think I read that he didn't want to put The Undertaker over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 19:35:10 GMT -5
I think Kerry Von Erichs problem was that he was his own worst enemy. I think what kept him from getting higher up in WWF than the Intercontinental title is the same thing that kept him from having a long run with the NWA title which was his reliability. I know kerry spent the majority of 92 dealing with drug charges and then we all know what happened in 93. A Shame because Kerry seemed to be the kind of guy that Vince would jiz all over. It was a real shame about Kerry, he had just about everything in terms of looks and talent.
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June
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Post by June on May 17, 2012 14:42:31 GMT -5
Vince gave all the former NWA champs decent pushes and even better money.
-Race was given the King moniker and mainevented a good amount of cards even though his days as a top guy were over before he came to the WWF.
-Terry Funk was a part time wrestler , and full time actor at the time he joined the WWF and like Race was given plenty of main event matches.
-Kerry Von Erich was given a huge push and the IC title when it meant something, he probably would have been given the WWf title instead of Bret Hart had his addictions not got him depushed and eventually fired.
-Dusty was given polka dots, but was also given tons of tv time and used it to get over like crazy, even though he was no longer able to carry a promotion as the top dog.
-Ron Garvin was a token NWA champ, but in the WWF he was given a mid card run which is what he was before winning the NWA title, and again after quickly losing it. Garvin was also given a chance to make great money and work a year long program with Valentine that really got him over, even as a referee.
-Dory was prehistoric when he came into the WWF and was a journeymen veteran in various US territories and a Japan mainstay at the time he came to the WWF, and had he not been paired with his brother Terry he would never have been brought in due to his lack of charisma or drawing power during that time period, but was still given a run when he really shouldn't have.
- Steamboat was not a former NWA champ during his initial run in the WWF, but he was pushed to the moon and then decided to go on paternity leave after getting a massive rub at WM3, so it's only obvious that he would have been humbled during his return, both of them.
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Post by hulkhogancollector on May 17, 2012 23:43:02 GMT -5
I wish Terry Funk would have stayed longer in his initial run in the WWF I enjoyed his matches against Hogan and JYD
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on May 18, 2012 14:03:36 GMT -5
I wish Terry Funk would have stayed longer in his initial run in the WWF I enjoyed his matches against Hogan and JYD Agreed 100%. From what I understand though, it was Funk that got fed up with the WWF and bailed, so I suppose that one's not on Vince. I think he would have remained upper-midcard or main event level as a heel, had he stayed. Regarding Harley Race, I think he was use better and given more of a push than he probably warranted at that point in his active career. And as I recall from his Hall of Fame acceptance speech, Harley probably would agree. He basically said he knew he was getting old and slow and wasn't who he once was, but Vince not only hired him, he made him "king" and gave him a decent push, and Harley seemed really grateful for that. If a guy as tough, confident and accustomed to being the top dog as Harley Race thinks he was over the hill in 1986, I guess we're not in a place to second-guess him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2012 14:07:37 GMT -5
I wish Terry Funk would have stayed longer in his initial run in the WWF I enjoyed his matches against Hogan and JYD Agreed 100%. From what I understand though, it was Funk that got fed up with the WWF and bailed, so I suppose that one's not on Vince. I think he would have remained upper-midcard or main event level as a heel, had he stayed. Regarding Harley Race, I think he was use better and given more of a push than he probably warranted at that point in his active career. And as I recall from his Hall of Fame acceptance speech, Harley probably would agree. He basically said he knew he was getting old and slow and wasn't who he once was, but Vince not only hired him, he made him "king" and gave him a decent push, and Harley seemed really grateful for that. If a guy as tough, confident and accustomed to being the top dog as Harley Race thinks he was over the hill in 1986, I guess we're not in a place to second-guess him. agreed on all points.Funk defo got tired of "up North"and bailed out I have heard that several times.
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Raine
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Post by Raine on May 18, 2012 15:16:10 GMT -5
Funk probably got sick of being jobbed out to JYD, he still had a lot to offer in 86, don't forget the barnburner he had with Flair in 1989.
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STING
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Post by STING on May 19, 2012 22:44:23 GMT -5
Does anyone remember what year Terry Funk went from wearing short trunks to wearing longer multiple colored tights? I was just wondering this. I'm not sure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2012 23:10:33 GMT -5
I'm not really sure of anything I'm about to say since I practically wasn't even born during these guys run's in the WWF but this is 2 reasons that come to mind for me.
1. Most of those guys either shouldn't have been top guys or they were on the tail end of their careers.
2. To make his guys look that much better. He gets the the guys that were on top at different times in these promotions and then mid-cards/jobs them out and it makes his guys look even better. You watch a guy that goes from being the top dog in NWA, WCCW, wherever and now he's basically the curtain jerker in WWF.
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Post by Nivro™ on May 19, 2012 23:56:09 GMT -5
I'm not really sure of anything I'm about to say since I practically wasn't even born during these guys run's in the WWF but this is 2 reasons that come to mind for me. 1. Most of those guys either shouldn't have been top guys or they were on the tail end of their careers. 2. To make his guys look that much better. He gets the the guys that were on top at different times in these promotions and then mid-cards/jobs them out and it makes his guys look even better. You watch a guy that goes from being the top dog in NWA, WCCW, wherever and now he's basically the curtain jerker in WWF. Im sure there was an underlying thought about the second part. I mean if you have guys dominating the 70s in the NWA like Funk, Race were and then they come to WWF and get beat by Hogan...It does make Hogan look even better. I will say not all NWA guys were curtain jerkers though. At best everyone mentioned were no more then mid carders. Sure they might have gotten spot main even matches here and there, they were still mid carders. Does anyone remember what year Terry Funk went from wearing short trunks to wearing longer multiple colored tights? I was just wondering this. I'm not sure. 89 I believe. The first I recall was his return to NWA and his feud with Ric Flair.
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hulksox
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Post by hulksox on May 24, 2012 6:10:08 GMT -5
Don't forget Jack Brisco. He and Gerry were also near the end when they arrived in the mid 1980s. Good workers...wrong era.
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Post by T R W on May 24, 2012 10:41:36 GMT -5
I was always a really big Ronnie Garvin fan (still have a towel of his I got at a NWA tv taping sround somewhere) , but I was shocked as anyone they gave him the title. I really enjoyed his feuds with Flair, and Blanchard though. As far as the WWF, he didn't really belong there.
And I agree with JL about Harley Race. He ended up with a much bigger push, and was a lot more over than he should have been at that point in his career.
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June
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Post by June on May 25, 2012 7:21:49 GMT -5
Don't forget Jack Brisco. He and Gerry were also near the end when they arrived in the mid 1980s. Good workers...wrong era. The thing with the Brisco's is that they came along in late 84, and were strictly a tag team at that point, and not used in for TV tapings with the exception of an Philly show at the Spectrum taped on Janurary 12th 1985, that aired March 12th of 85 that saw them lose to Murdoch &Adonis, whom they pretty much wrestled exclusively across the country in the early part of 85. The Brisco's we're a great team, but the expansion era was in full swing, and there was no way their style would have gotten over with the WWF's new audience, which is why Vince kept them off TV.
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