Deleted
Joined on: Jun 26, 2024 3:17:48 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2012 16:03:52 GMT -5
Right, except Mattel is paying Warrior to make money off of his likeness. The guy who started this thread is not. See the difference? yeah, no cut for the middle man. but it's a figure that he already bought himself. so mattel got their share already. he repainted the figure, and decided to put it up for sale. that's like saying you cant have a garage sale, coz youre making money off of stuff that you dont need/want/have space for or whatever reason. warrior sucks. he should be happy people make customs of him, so they can have a bigger collection of all his attires. You can have a garage sale, and you can sell customs, UNLESS the copyright holder takes issue with it. It is illegal to reproduce copyrighted material of any kind for profit. When you place something up for a bid you are not selling it for cost of materials, you are selling it for a mark up. It's against the law. Just because people do it on smaller scales (at garage sales or whatnot) doesn't make it legal. Just ask eBay's legal department. Warrior holds the copyright to his logo and likeness. He alone has the discretion to say who can and cannot make money off of him. You can't create a new product (even if it's just a paint job) using copyrighted logos without paying a royalty. When Vanilla Ice copied Queen's "Under Pressure" bass line for his "Ice Ice Baby" song, he claimed he created a new song completely. But he still used copyrighted material for his new product. You can't do that legally. You may get away with it, but that doesn't change the law.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Jun 26, 2024 3:17:48 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2012 16:12:29 GMT -5
yeah, no cut for the middle man. but it's a figure that he already bought himself. so mattel got their share already. he repainted the figure, and decided to put it up for sale. that's like saying you cant have a garage sale, coz youre making money off of stuff that you dont need/want/have space for or whatever reason. warrior sucks. he should be happy people make customs of him, so they can have a bigger collection of all his attires. You can have a garage sale, and you can sell customs, UNLESS the copyright holder takes issue with it. It is illegal to reproduce copyrighted material of any kind for profit. When you place something up for a bid you are not selling it for cost of materials, you are selling it for a mark up. It's against the law. Just because people do it on smaller scales (at garage sales or whatnot) doesn't make it legal. Just ask eBay's legal department. Warrior holds the copyright to his logo and likeness. He alone has the discretion to say who can and cannot make money off of him. You can't create a new product (even if it's just a paint job) using copyrighted logos without paying a royalty. When Vanilla Ice copied Queen's "Under Pressure" bass line for his "Ice Ice Baby" song, he claimed he created a new song completely. But he still used copyrighted material for his new product. You can't do that legally. You may get away with it, but that doesn't change the law. So you think its Ok that he sits at his Computer and Monitors for Ultimate Warrior Customs so he can Stop them dead in his Tracks and stop people from sharing a versions of his Character with other Fans? No ones Debating Law here, You can call up Greg Shapiro if you wanna talk about Legalities, Its Cheap and Pathetic that Warrior monitors Ebay to see if anyones making Custom figures of his character. Why should a guy who made hundreds of thousands shut down the fans who helped him get there over a few measely dollars? You think im paying my bills off custom figures? Theres always one of these guys in every thread here on Wfigs
|
|
|
Post by jfinnomore on Jul 8, 2012 16:37:59 GMT -5
Warrior is pathetic. End of story. There is countless other custom's on ebay where the guys don't have them shut down. Warrior is just petty and a money grubber.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Jun 26, 2024 3:17:48 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2012 17:13:23 GMT -5
You can have a garage sale, and you can sell customs, UNLESS the copyright holder takes issue with it. It is illegal to reproduce copyrighted material of any kind for profit. When you place something up for a bid you are not selling it for cost of materials, you are selling it for a mark up. It's against the law. Just because people do it on smaller scales (at garage sales or whatnot) doesn't make it legal. Just ask eBay's legal department. Warrior holds the copyright to his logo and likeness. He alone has the discretion to say who can and cannot make money off of him. You can't create a new product (even if it's just a paint job) using copyrighted logos without paying a royalty. When Vanilla Ice copied Queen's "Under Pressure" bass line for his "Ice Ice Baby" song, he claimed he created a new song completely. But he still used copyrighted material for his new product. You can't do that legally. You may get away with it, but that doesn't change the law. So you think its Ok that he sits at his Computer and Monitors for Ultimate Warrior Customs so he can Stop them dead in his Tracks and stop people from sharing a versions of his Character with other Fans? No ones Debating Law here, You can call up Greg Shapiro if you wanna talk about Legalities, Its Cheap and Pathetic that Warrior monitors Ebay to see if anyones making Custom figures of his character. Why should a guy who made hundreds of thousands shut down the fans who helped him get there over a few measely dollars? You think im paying my bills off custom figures? Theres always one of these guys in every thread here on Wfigs I'm not saying it's okay, I'm saying it's legal. You can try to put in my mouth and say that I said Warrior should be sitting behind a computer monitoring eBay, but I didn't say he should or shouldn't. It's his choice how he spends his time, just like it's his choice how his logo and likeness is used for monitary gain. All I'm saying is the law is on his side. Clearly eBay agrees. If you don't like you should change fight to change copyright law, because complaining isn't going to change the fact that the law is on Warrior's and eBay's side, not yours. Sorry you don't like hearing the one truth that brought this whole thread about in first place ...
|
|
Biff Slamkovich™
Main Eventer
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
WF 10+ Year Member
Joined on: Nov 21, 2009 22:53:58 GMT -5
Posts: 3,621
|
Post by Biff Slamkovich™ on Jul 8, 2012 17:31:56 GMT -5
I'd just craigslist it then or sell it here on classifieds. At least if you sell it here you'll know it will go to a real fan.
|
|
| NLS™ |
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
Buy My Figures!
Joined on: Jun 7, 2012 3:24:41 GMT -5
Posts: 3,538
|
Post by | NLS™ | on Jul 8, 2012 17:48:56 GMT -5
What a homosexual? How much r u selling the custom douche bag fig fro bro?
|
|
|
Post by The Champ is Here! on Jul 8, 2012 18:27:49 GMT -5
So you think its Ok that he sits at his Computer and Monitors for Ultimate Warrior Customs so he can Stop them dead in his Tracks and stop people from sharing a versions of his Character with other Fans? No ones Debating Law here, You can call up Greg Shapiro if you wanna talk about Legalities, Its Cheap and Pathetic that Warrior monitors Ebay to see if anyones making Custom figures of his character. Why should a guy who made hundreds of thousands shut down the fans who helped him get there over a few measely dollars? You think im paying my bills off custom figures? Theres always one of these guys in every thread here on Wfigs I'm not saying it's okay, I'm saying it's legal. You can try to put in my mouth and say that I said Warrior should be sitting behind a computer monitoring eBay, but I didn't say he should or shouldn't. It's his choice how he spends his time, just like it's his choice how his logo and likeness is used for monitary gain. All I'm saying is the law is on his side. Clearly eBay agrees. If you don't like you should change fight to change copyright law, because complaining isn't going to change the fact that the law is on Warrior's and eBay's side, not yours. Sorry you don't like hearing the one truth that brought this whole thread about in first place ... Actually, the law is not. Copyrighted material can be used in art to a certain extent. A great example of that is the customizing of McFarlane sports figures. Those things get customized left and right, and nfl logos get put on them, and it's ok. I think it's when you make 5 or more of the same that you get into trademark issues, but a 1 off is not.
|
|
|
Post by The Champ is Here! on Jul 8, 2012 18:36:00 GMT -5
Sorry for the double post, but after reading more on the Internet, here is what has been found.
It is not against copyright law to sell a custom figure......unless the person who owns the trademark decides they don't want you to...then they can shut it down...
|
|
|
Post by Chewdeezy on Jul 8, 2012 18:43:16 GMT -5
I'm not saying it's okay, I'm saying it's legal. You can try to put in my mouth and say that I said Warrior should be sitting behind a computer monitoring eBay, but I didn't say he should or shouldn't. It's his choice how he spends his time, just like it's his choice how his logo and likeness is used for monitary gain. All I'm saying is the law is on his side. Clearly eBay agrees. If you don't like you should change fight to change copyright law, because complaining isn't going to change the fact that the law is on Warrior's and eBay's side, not yours. Sorry you don't like hearing the one truth that brought this whole thread about in first place ... Actually, the law is not. Copyrighted material can be used in art to a certain extent. A great example of that is the customizing of McFarlane sports figures. Those things get customized left and right, and nfl logos get put on them, and it's ok. I think it's when you make 5 or more of the same that you get into trademark issues, but a 1 off is not. McFarlane Sports Picks are ok because Todd McFarlane allows it because he doesn't mind and think it's cool. But if he wanted to tomorrow to shut it down and have listings on eBay remove them, he can. I know for sure there are some college teams that do not allow customs to be sold on eBay. They will contact eBay and get a hold of the ebayer's address and sent notices to stop or else they can get sued.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Jun 26, 2024 3:17:48 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2012 18:55:51 GMT -5
Actually, the law is not. Copyrighted material can be used in art to a certain extent. A great example of that is the customizing of McFarlane sports figures. Those things get customized left and right, and nfl logos get put on them, and it's ok. I think it's when you make 5 or more of the same that you get into trademark issues, but a 1 off is not. McFarlane Sports Picks are ok because Todd McFarlane allows it because he doesn't mind and think it's cool. But if he wanted to tomorrow to shut it down and have listings on eBay remove them, he can. I know for sure there are some college teams that do not allow customs to be sold on eBay. They will contact eBay and get a hold of the ebayer's address and sent notices to stop or else they can get sued. Correct. A person or company has every legal right to control the use of their intellectual/trademarked/copyrighted material. When napster was very popular and free to anyone, lots of big record companies complained, sued, and ended up shutting down the free trading of music files. However, there were some bands on independent labels that LOVED napster because it increased their exposure and ultimately increased their future sales. Warrior clearly sees no advantage in letting people use his stuff. You might think he's a douche, uptight, whatever. You might feel like he's being mean and not playing fair, but too bad so sad cry us a river. If eBay thought he was in the wrong this figure would still be at auction or would've sold by now. But like others said, just circumvent him and sell it elsewhere.
|
|
cocacolabottle
Main Eventer
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
2 US Refs
Joined on: Aug 29, 2011 4:45:11 GMT -5
Posts: 1,008
|
Post by cocacolabottle on Jul 8, 2012 19:18:49 GMT -5
I can totally relate to bad eBay experiences as of late. Two of my figures arrived in clearly not as described and photographed including blatantly open packaging, one had a figure shipped postage due, I had it sent back and he relisted the item for sale and took my cash so I had to open a dispute AND I am pretty damn sure it is a shell account since I took a close look at the feedback and he is selling the exact same items over and over again and all of the feedback is one worded which I think is just shill bidding so he can keep on scamming others although his negative feedbacks show the real story.
Sorry for the rant but I feel for you. EBay has just been a really bad experience as of late.
|
|
cocacolabottle
Main Eventer
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
2 US Refs
Joined on: Aug 29, 2011 4:45:11 GMT -5
Posts: 1,008
|
Post by cocacolabottle on Jul 8, 2012 19:23:25 GMT -5
You can have a garage sale, and you can sell customs, UNLESS the copyright holder takes issue with it. It is illegal to reproduce copyrighted material of any kind for profit. When you place something up for a bid you are not selling it for cost of materials, you are selling it for a mark up. It's against the law. Just because people do it on smaller scales (at garage sales or whatnot) doesn't make it legal. Just ask eBay's legal department. Warrior holds the copyright to his logo and likeness. He alone has the discretion to say who can and cannot make money off of him. You can't create a new product (even if it's just a paint job) using copyrighted logos without paying a royalty. When Vanilla Ice copied Queen's "Under Pressure" bass line for his "Ice Ice Baby" song, he claimed he created a new song completely. But he still used copyrighted material for his new product. You can't do that legally. You may get away with it, but that doesn't change the law. So you think its Ok that he sits at his Computer and Monitors for Ultimate Warrior Customs so he can Stop them dead in his Tracks and stop people from sharing a versions of his Character with other Fans? No ones Debating Law here, You can call up Greg Shapiro if you wanna talk about Legalities, Its Cheap and Pathetic that Warrior monitors Ebay to see if anyones making Custom figures of his character. Why should a guy who made hundreds of thousands shut down the fans who helped him get there over a few measely dollars? You think im paying my bills off custom figures? Theres always one of these guys in every thread here on Wfigs I understand The Warrior wanting to protect his rights but he isn't taking the smart route to making money. Instead of paying attention to who is selling his stuff he should pay attention as to what actually sells and work with his fans to sell nice customs instead of against them. I bet Warrior and his fans could make a bundle if they teamed up because Warrior will still make some money and get to interact with his fans while having fun with them as well as those doing the customs. It would be great if Warrior partnered with a fan to make an exclusive line of custom figures or other such products. There is money to be made all around as well as adding to his fanbase but what he is doing now is simply pissing some of his biggest fans off.
|
|
cocacolabottle
Main Eventer
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
2 US Refs
Joined on: Aug 29, 2011 4:45:11 GMT -5
Posts: 1,008
|
Post by cocacolabottle on Jul 8, 2012 20:21:25 GMT -5
So you can buy a figure at the store, say an elite Kevin Nash or Diesel right now, and resell it on eBay for a profit, AKA Scalping, and that is all good and legal but taking the time to actually buy a figure and add more value to it via additional accessories and time spent altering the figure is somehow frowned upon?
So those people who buy T-Shirts and add their own custom art to it or tye-dye it shouldn't be able to resell that same shirt for more money?
What about ingredients at the store? What if you go and use them to create a cupcake which you then turn around and sell for more money. Your using brand names and copyrighted items, turning them into something new and reselling them for a profit. Is that wrong?
To prove fault here you would have to prove that the OP was trying to con The Warrior out of something that was his. He sold the rights to make his figure to Mattel who then sold the figures they made to us so why can't we take those figures, alter them and sell them to others? Our initial purchase gives us that right so long as we don't claim to sell the same exact thing. It is like off brand products. Can Dr. Pepper sue knock offs like Dr. Thunder even though they are similar? The answer is no because they are not the same thing because the formula for the product, the name of the product and other such differences are NOT the same thing.
|
|
|
Post by mrhoss on Jul 8, 2012 20:32:33 GMT -5
It's not exactly the same but these customizer cases always remind me of this: Mattel sues woman for selling "Sex Dungeon" Barbie and loses! Judges won't ban 'Kinky Barbie' A doll maker who was taken to court by toy giant Mattel after selling kinky versions of Barbie has won a preliminary ruling British-based Susanne Pitt was prosecuted in New York for sale of a 'dungeondoll' made with the head of 'Superstar Barbie'. Mattel said it infringed its copyright. But Judge Laura Taylor Swain ruled infavour of the S&M doll because she found it wasn't "a market substitute for Barbie dolls." "To the court's knowledge, there is no Mattel line of S&M Barbie," the judge said. Pitt, who defended herself, offered the dungeon doll for sale on a Web site,which she closed down after Mattel launched its action last year. She allegedly attached big breasted doll bodies of her own making to the head of Superstar Barbie and publicised the doll in a sexually explicit story on the Web site.
Story filed: 10:02 Thursday 7th November 2002
|
|
x
Main Eventer
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Joined on: Jul 2, 2007 11:10:15 GMT -5
Posts: 2,721
|
Post by x on Jul 8, 2012 20:41:23 GMT -5
What if you listed it as a parody figure? Not sure if there's anything illegal about using copyrighted terms and logos for the sake of a parody...
|
|
|
Post by Next Man’s No 503K on Jul 8, 2012 20:58:02 GMT -5
So those people who buy T-Shirts and add their own custom art to it or tye-dye it shouldn't be able to resell that same shirt for more money? Depends. When you say "their own" custom art, do you really mean copies of someone else's intellectual property? Because if so, then no, they can't go and sell that (or rather, they can, but if the owner of the intellectual property sees it, they can get in trouble). No, you would have to prove that the OP was looking at making money by creating things using Warrior's intellectual property. The guy on Ebay wasn't selling an Ultimate Thunder figure with a different symbol though. If Dr. Thunder started calling their product Dr. Pepper, then yes, Dr. Pepper could sue them. What if you listed it as a parody figure? Not sure if there's anything illegal about using copyrighted terms and logos for the sake of a parody... There is. There's a misconception that you can get away with everything under the parody umbrella, but the truth is very different (I've had to familiarise myself with it a bit for work recently)... Particularly in terms of precise things, like the name Ultimate Warrior and the symbol. You could sell a muscular, face-painted, long-haired wrestler that was obviously based on Warrior, but you couldn't use that symbol or call it Ultimate Warrior. Oddly, there are a lot of bootlegged Dude Love toys that do say Dude Love on the shirt, I think.
|
|
cocacolabottle
Main Eventer
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
2 US Refs
Joined on: Aug 29, 2011 4:45:11 GMT -5
Posts: 1,008
|
Post by cocacolabottle on Jul 8, 2012 21:11:12 GMT -5
So those people who buy T-Shirts and add their own custom art to it or tye-dye it shouldn't be able to resell that same shirt for more money? Depends. When you say "their own" custom art, do you really mean copies of someone else's intellectual property? Because if so, then no, they can't go and sell that (or rather, they can, but if the owner of the intellectual property sees it, they can get in trouble). No, you would have to prove that the OP was looking at making money by creating things using Warrior's intellectual property. The guy on Ebay wasn't selling an Ultimate Thunder figure with a different symbol though. If Dr. Thunder started calling their product Dr. Pepper, then yes, Dr. Pepper could sue them. What if you listed it as a parody figure? Not sure if there's anything illegal about using copyrighted terms and logos for the sake of a parody... There is. There's a misconception that you can get away with everything under the parody umbrella, but the truth is very different (I've had to familiarise myself with it a bit for work recently)... Particularly in terms of precise things, like the name Ultimate Warrior and the symbol. You could sell a muscular, face-painted, long-haired wrestler that was obviously based on Warrior, but you couldn't use that symbol or call it Ultimate Warrior. Oddly, there are a lot of bootlegged Dude Love toys that do say Dude Love on the shirt, I think. I think what the argument boils down to is this : Mattel sold us a figure based on The Ultimate Warrior. The figure is ours to do what we want with including reselling it. However at what point does our doing what we want with it, AKA customization and resale, cross the line into infringing 'intellectual property' and or 'likeness'.
|
|
|
Post by firstplacer on Jul 8, 2012 21:24:02 GMT -5
After reading this thread, I found it very interesting and i understand both sides of the arguement. I think where Warrior is coming from is the original poster not only made a custom Warrior figure using his likeness and trademarks, but he made a counterfeit custom USA warrior that was already made and made in limited quantities for sale. I think if the poster would have made a unique looking Warrior, it probably wouldn't have been to much to argue then besides using Warriors logos but because he blatantly copied the USA warrior look, minus a few small details, with Warriors logos thats what the issue is. That would be like counterfeiting a product already on the market (Gucci sunglasses, louie vutton bags, etc) and reselling them on the street at your price. Its illegal. If your going to customize something and sell it, at least make it unique, or at very least, make sure its not of someone who is a hard ass with his copywritten legacy.
|
|
|
Post by "The Gothic Superstar" Ronin on Jul 8, 2012 21:27:55 GMT -5
Someone should post a Warrior fig on eBay (not a custom) and post in the description "Warrior receives nothing from this auction and rightfully so" lol
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Jun 26, 2024 3:17:48 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2012 21:28:37 GMT -5
Depends. When you say "their own" custom art, do you really mean copies of someone else's intellectual property? Because if so, then no, they can't go and sell that (or rather, they can, but if the owner of the intellectual property sees it, they can get in trouble). No, you would have to prove that the OP was looking at making money by creating things using Warrior's intellectual property. The guy on Ebay wasn't selling an Ultimate Thunder figure with a different symbol though. If Dr. Thunder started calling their product Dr. Pepper, then yes, Dr. Pepper could sue them. There is. There's a misconception that you can get away with everything under the parody umbrella, but the truth is very different (I've had to familiarise myself with it a bit for work recently)... Particularly in terms of precise things, like the name Ultimate Warrior and the symbol. You could sell a muscular, face-painted, long-haired wrestler that was obviously based on Warrior, but you couldn't use that symbol or call it Ultimate Warrior. Oddly, there are a lot of bootlegged Dude Love toys that do say Dude Love on the shirt, I think. I think what the argument boils down to is this : Mattel sold us a figure based on The Ultimate Warrior. The figure is ours to do what we want with including reselling it. However at what point does our doing what we want with it, AKA customization and resale, cross the line into infringing 'intellectual property' and or 'likeness'. When he added a trademarked symbol that wasn't originally there, he infringed on the Warrior's copyright. Those little warrior symbols on his tights are logos that belong to Warrior. You can't put those on a product, promote them as such, and sell that product for a mark up. I mean you can, but you can be held liable. This guy painted trademark symbols on this figure and because of his paint job he is selling it for a premium (I'm sure). Well I'd like to paint someone else's design on something and sell it, too. I'd love to take the Chicago Bulls' logo and print it off on a red shirt and sell it for 3 times as much as I paid for the red shirt, but I don't own that design. Once the NBA told me to stop selling it, I'd love to come on a forum and bash David Stern et al for being "money-hungry douches stomping out their fans" like the people here. This person here who started this thread doesn't own the Warrior's design. You can't just do whatever you want with somebody else's trademark and then sell it. That's where the line was crossed. After market sells of untouched products are fine because the copyrights have already been purchased and people have already made their cuts. But no one who owns Warrior's trademarks has made a cut for that USA Warrior paint job, which is a one-of-a-kind product.
|
|