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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 5:30:22 GMT -5
Wasn't a fan of how the ROH guys were made to look like scrubs against basically all of the New Japan dudes at all. I'd give the show a 6/10. It wasn't amazing. It wasn't terrible.
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Post by The Champ is Here! on May 9, 2016 5:53:38 GMT -5
Bullet club BAY BAY!
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Post by punksnotdead on May 9, 2016 10:57:57 GMT -5
Wasn't a fan of how the ROH guys were made to look like scrubs against basically all of the New Japan dudes at all. I'd give the show a 6/10. It wasn't amazing. It wasn't terrible. Like who? Fish went over in an awesome match where Ishii looked indestructible but still went down. O'Reilly wasn't winning the IWGP Heavyweight Championship. Tana and Okada were going to be protected, and deservedly so imo. I still think they got a lot out of a little with the story they told in the ring between Moose and Elgin. Is this a Bullet Club gripe? They have to run roughshod over the roster before they can be taken down eventually. Not to mention, the BC has become as much an ROH faction as it is an NJPW faction now. I thought the end was a really good way to protect Cabana, which kind of needed to happen with how he returned and proclaimed he needed to win the title. ROH needed a shot in the arm, period. I'm not sure this is the answer longterm but Adam Cole and the Young Bucks together is something that has been wildly entertaining in the past. I like the idea that the BC will always have ROH representation to create this global heel faction. Cole is also phenomenal at leading a stable, so there is also that. With it being Global Wars, I just felt like it was supposed to honestly. In fact, the one guy who got elevated from the night was Bobby Fish imo. Or, he at least took that step I've been waiting to see him take for awhile now. They got a little crazy with the super kicks but what largely felt like an average ROH show really got elevated for me from a storytelling perspective with both the main event match and then the run-ins at the end. ROH deserves all of the credit in the world if this culminates in a huge Cole vs Lethal solo encounter for the title imo.
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Tyler Black
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the former #1 Tyler Black fan/Tyler F'n Black
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Post by Tyler Black on May 9, 2016 11:06:59 GMT -5
I know people didn't like it, but I LOVED how the main event ended. I haven't given a crap about ROH in a while and I certainly didn't give a about the Global Wars main event. I checked it out because the matches were good but I wasn't really invested in any storylines, but I got totally sucked back in last night. I popped hard for Cole joining and them laying waste to everyone in the ring area. I know people complain it's NWO-Esque, but the NWO only really went downhill when they got out of control with adding useless members. Bullet club really hasn't done that. The only guys that don't feel worth while are Takahashi and Fale, but hey, you need fall guys for matches. And they only add members when other big members leave. I think this was the shot in the arm both the BC and ROH needed. I loved it
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 11:07:03 GMT -5
Wasn't a fan of how the ROH guys were made to look like scrubs against basically all of the New Japan dudes at all. I'd give the show a 6/10. It wasn't amazing. It wasn't terrible. Like who? Fish went over in an awesome match where Ishii looked indestructible but still went down. O'Reilly wasn't winning the IWGP Heavyweight Championship. Tana and Okada were going to be protected, and deservedly so imo. I still think they got a lot out of a little with the story they told in the ring between Moose and Elgin. Is this a Bullet Club gripe? They have to run roughshod over the roster before they can be taken down eventually. Not to mention, the BC has become as much an ROH faction as it is an NJPW faction now. I thought the end was a really good way to protect Cabana, which kind of needed to happen with how he returned and proclaimed he needed to win the title. ROH needed a shot in the arm, period. I'm not sure this is the answer longterm but Adam Cole and the Young Bucks together is something that has been wildly entertaining in the past. I like the idea that the BC will always have ROH representation to create this global heel faction. Cole is also phenomenal at leading a stable, so there is also that. With it being Global Wars, I just felt like it was supposed to honestly. In fact, the one guy who got elevated from the night was Bobby Fish imo. Or, he at least took that step I've been waiting to see him take for awhile now. They got a little crazy with the super kicks but what largely felt like an average ROH show really got elevated for me from a storytelling perspective with both the main event match and then the run-ins at the end. ROH deserves all of the credit in the world if this culminates in a huge Cole vs Lethal solo encounter for the title imo. A bit of both. I feel like the Bullet Club angle is played out as a whole. The ending felt a little too NWO-esque for my liking, and the whole show just felt like it was tailor made to make the New Japan guys look as strong as they could. I love the prospect of Cole in the Bullet Club, I just wish it was done differently. Plus, for a $45 show, it really didn't feel like one at all.
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Post by punksnotdead on May 9, 2016 12:38:49 GMT -5
Like who? Fish went over in an awesome match where Ishii looked indestructible but still went down. O'Reilly wasn't winning the IWGP Heavyweight Championship. Tana and Okada were going to be protected, and deservedly so imo. I still think they got a lot out of a little with the story they told in the ring between Moose and Elgin. Is this a Bullet Club gripe? They have to run roughshod over the roster before they can be taken down eventually. Not to mention, the BC has become as much an ROH faction as it is an NJPW faction now. I thought the end was a really good way to protect Cabana, which kind of needed to happen with how he returned and proclaimed he needed to win the title. ROH needed a shot in the arm, period. I'm not sure this is the answer longterm but Adam Cole and the Young Bucks together is something that has been wildly entertaining in the past. I like the idea that the BC will always have ROH representation to create this global heel faction. Cole is also phenomenal at leading a stable, so there is also that. With it being Global Wars, I just felt like it was supposed to honestly. In fact, the one guy who got elevated from the night was Bobby Fish imo. Or, he at least took that step I've been waiting to see him take for awhile now. They got a little crazy with the super kicks but what largely felt like an average ROH show really got elevated for me from a storytelling perspective with both the main event match and then the run-ins at the end. ROH deserves all of the credit in the world if this culminates in a huge Cole vs Lethal solo encounter for the title imo. A bit of both. I feel like the Bullet Club angle is played out as a whole. The ending felt a little too NWO-esque for my liking, and the whole show just felt like it was tailor made to make the New Japan guys look as strong as they could. I love the prospect of Cole in the Bullet Club, I just wish it was done differently. Plus, for a $45 show, it really didn't feel like one at all.Unfortunately, I totally agree with that, but more so because WWE has completely redefined the value of a pro wrestling PPV. We're getting so much for $10 that other companies have to really over deliver on PPV when they charge old PPV prices. It's pretty much impossible to not go, "I'm not sure if I got my $________ worth on that PPV." I think the last time that happened for me was WK9 though. If you aren't a fan of AC or the BC, I can certainly see how the payoff was a bit of a letdown. Lots of eggs in the BC basket last night. I personally think it was for good reason though. The BC has been looking for an identity and a figure head since WK10 and they've found both in Adam Cole. I love Kenny Omega, but he's a Pippen, not a Jordan, imo.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on May 9, 2016 14:06:46 GMT -5
I....
I just don't get it. Like, that crapwas lame. It was garbage when the nWo did things like that and it sucks ass now.
Yet people ate it up. The Bullet Club should die. I'm done with ROH for a while. I'll check out the occasional match that gets high praise since I'm all about finding great matches, but that's it. Like they did in 2009, they've pretty much lost me as a fan.
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Post by Gone. on May 9, 2016 14:10:53 GMT -5
I.... I just don't get it. Like, that crap was lame. It was garbage when the nWo did things like that and it sucks ass now. Yet people ate it up. The Bullet Club should die. I'm done with ROH for a while. I'll check out the occasional match that gets high praise since I'm all about finding great matches, but that's it. Like they did in 2009, they've pretty much lost me as a fan. Cause God knows Cabana as ROH champion was a better alternative.
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Tyler Black
Main Eventer
the former #1 Tyler Black fan/Tyler F'n Black
Joined on: Jul 19, 2009 15:37:40 GMT -5
Posts: 2,544
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Post by Tyler Black on May 9, 2016 14:12:19 GMT -5
A bit of both. I feel like the Bullet Club angle is played out as a whole. The ending felt a little too NWO-esque for my liking, and the whole show just felt like it was tailor made to make the New Japan guys look as strong as they could. I love the prospect of Cole in the Bullet Club, I just wish it was done differently. Plus, for a $45 show, it really didn't feel like one at all.Unfortunately, I totally agree with that, but more so because WWE has completely redefined the value of a pro wrestling PPV. We're getting so much for $10 that other companies have to really over deliver on PPV when they charge old PPV prices. It's pretty much impossible to not go, "I'm not sure if I got my $________ worth on that PPV." I think the last time that happened for me was WK9 though. If you aren't a fan of AC or the BC, I can certainly see how the payoff was a bit of a letdown. Lots of eggs in the BC basket last night. I personally think it was for good reason though. The BC has been looking for an identity and a figure head since WK10 and they've found both in Adam Cole. I love Kenny Omega, but he's a Pippen, not a Jordan, imo. Ah man I gotta disagree with you on omega. Guys been nothing short of phenomenal since kicking AJ. Have you seen his match with Elgin from the road to Dontaku?
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Post by The Kevstaaa on May 9, 2016 14:21:15 GMT -5
I.... I just don't get it. Like, that crap was lame. It was garbage when the nWo did things like that and it sucks ass now. Yet people ate it up. The Bullet Club should die. I'm done with ROH for a while. I'll check out the occasional match that gets high praise since I'm all about finding great matches, but that's it. Like they did in 2009, they've pretty much lost me as a fan. Cause God knows Cabana as ROH champion was a better alternative. I mean, I wanted Jay Lethal to retain but at what cost? Cabana winning would have been bad too.
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Post by punksnotdead on May 9, 2016 14:50:10 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I totally agree with that, but more so because WWE has completely redefined the value of a pro wrestling PPV. We're getting so much for $10 that other companies have to really over deliver on PPV when they charge old PPV prices. It's pretty much impossible to not go, "I'm not sure if I got my $________ worth on that PPV." I think the last time that happened for me was WK9 though. If you aren't a fan of AC or the BC, I can certainly see how the payoff was a bit of a letdown. Lots of eggs in the BC basket last night. I personally think it was for good reason though. The BC has been looking for an identity and a figure head since WK10 and they've found both in Adam Cole. I love Kenny Omega, but he's a Pippen, not a Jordan, imo. Ah man I gotta disagree with you on omega. Guys been nothing short of phenomenal since kicking AJ. Have you seen his match with Elgin from the road to Dontaku? I have not. I'll check it out. I'm sure it's great. I've never seen an Omega match I didn't like. I really just watch ROH. So Honor Rising is the only full NJPW show I've seen since WK10, minus a match here and there that I hear is good. Maybe just my perception then but it really felt like The Elite was a step down from AJ and the Bucks. Like AJ was this big centerpiece star and Omega was this super talented upper mid carder that the BC fell on, but upper mid carder nonetheless. Even now, I see guys like Lethal and Cole higher up on the card than Omega. I'm not saying Omega doesn't have the skills to be the guy, but to this point I feel he's been a 1b versus a 1. I.... I just don't get it. Like, that crap was lame. It was garbage when the nWo did things like that and it sucks ass now. Yet people ate it up. The Bullet Club should die. I'm done with ROH for a while. I'll check out the occasional match that gets high praise since I'm all about finding great matches, but that's it. Like they did in 2009, they've pretty much lost me as a fan. Even as I was watching it happen I knew you were going to hate it haha. But you're mad at ROH for something that came from NJPW? Jado and Gedo Westernized the sh*t out of NJPW. They were the ones to breath life into the BC for so long. You can't get mad at ROH for keeping it viable for an American audience, who honestly has very limited exposure to the group even now. Not to mention, the ROH version of the stable, so the Elite and Adam Cole, are going to be awesome together everywhere they go. It's the NJPW elements, minus Omega, who feel like the NWO Black and White B-team. I just don't get how you're mad at ROH for making one of their top stars the centerpiece of the most popular faction in wrestling, but you're ok with NJPW running Cody Hall and Camacho out there and that doesn't affect your loyalty to that brand? Also, can we talk about why you gave up on ROH in 2009? A Double's second world title run, and simultaneously Tyler Black's title chase, was one of the best stretches in the company's history.
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Post by The Champ is Here! on May 9, 2016 14:51:49 GMT -5
I.... I just don't get it. Like, that crap was lame. It was garbage when the nWo did things like that and it sucks ass now. Yet people ate it up. The Bullet Club should die. I'm done with ROH for a while. I'll check out the occasional match that gets high praise since I'm all about finding great matches, but that's it. Like they did in 2009, they've pretty much lost me as a fan. Couldn't disagree more I think this injects new life into the Bullet Club, and gives Cole some direction, they handled the break up of the kingdom horribly, and he was floundering As stated above, the NWO was only lame when it started adding everyone, BC hasn't done that But to each his own
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Post by The Kevstaaa on May 9, 2016 14:55:54 GMT -5
I.... I just don't get it. Like, that crap was lame. It was garbage when the nWo did things like that and it sucks ass now. Yet people ate it up. The Bullet Club should die. I'm done with ROH for a while. I'll check out the occasional match that gets high praise since I'm all about finding great matches, but that's it. Like they did in 2009, they've pretty much lost me as a fan. Couldn't disagree more I think this injects new life into the Bullet Club, and gives Cole some direction, they handled the break up of the kingdom horribly, and he was floundering As stated above, the NWO was only lame when it started adding everyone, BC hasn't done that But to each his own BC hasn't done that? Yujiro Takahashi, Chase Owens, Tonga Roa, Cody Hall and going back to Jeff Jarrett, though he didn't stick around. The group jumped the shark a while back. If WWE, TNA or any other company ran this angle without everyone's precious Young Bucks and Adam Cole, people would have crapped all over it. Like I said, I'm done with ROH for a while if this is the direction they're going. But if you like it, more power to you.
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Tyler Black
Main Eventer
the former #1 Tyler Black fan/Tyler F'n Black
Joined on: Jul 19, 2009 15:37:40 GMT -5
Posts: 2,544
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Post by Tyler Black on May 9, 2016 15:15:15 GMT -5
Ah man I gotta disagree with you on omega. Guys been nothing short of phenomenal since kicking AJ. Have you seen his match with Elgin from the road to Dontaku? I have not. I'll check it out. I'm sure it's great. I've never seen an Omega match I didn't like. I really just watch ROH. So Honor Rising is the only full NJPW show I've seen since WK10, minus a match here and there that I hear is good. Maybe just my perception then but it really felt like The Elite was a step down from AJ and the Bucks. Like AJ was this big centerpiece star and Omega was this super talented upper mid carder that the BC fell on, but upper mid carder nonetheless. Even now, I see guys like Lethal and Cole higher up on the card than Omega. I'm not saying Omega doesn't have the skills to be the guy, but to this point I feel he's been a 1b versus a 1. ah, I see what you mean. He's not there yet, but I feel like by the end of the year he will have grown into that role
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 15:18:40 GMT -5
The Bullet Club's entire gimmick is that they rile up the people who hate them by doing exactly what makes them hate them and it does work, really well. I enjoy them, I just felt the ending last night was so meh.
Cole is awesome. He's basically been my favourite on the indies for the last 3 years. I enjoy the Bullet Club, too. I just wish we got a better way for him to join.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on May 9, 2016 15:27:43 GMT -5
I.... I just don't get it. Like, that crap was lame. It was garbage when the nWo did things like that and it sucks ass now. Yet people ate it up. The Bullet Club should die. I'm done with ROH for a while. I'll check out the occasional match that gets high praise since I'm all about finding great matches, but that's it. Like they did in 2009, they've pretty much lost me as a fan. Even as I was watching it happen I knew you were going to hate it haha. But you're mad at ROH for something that came from NJPW? Jado and Gedo Westernized the sh*t out of NJPW. They were the ones to breath life into the BC for so long. You can't get mad at ROH for keeping it viable for an American audience, who honestly has very limited exposure to the group even now. Not to mention, the ROH version of the stable, so the Elite and Adam Cole, are going to be awesome together everywhere they go. It's the NJPW elements, minus Omega, who feel like the NWO Black and White B-team. I just don't get how you're mad at ROH for making one of their top stars the centerpiece of the most popular faction in wrestling, but you're ok with NJPW running Cody Hall and Camacho out there and that doesn't affect your loyalty to that brand? Also, can we talk about why you gave up on ROH in 2009? A Double's second world title run, and simultaneously Tyler Black's title chase, was one of the best stretches in the company's history. [/quote] I am mad at ROH. NJPW came up with it and drove it into the ground, but ROH making it their biggest angle, two years too late, is lame. Add in that the Bullet Club, with Cole and the Bucks, is still lame and I have no interest in seeing it. I like Cole, but not enough to get past it like I could with AJ Styles. I hate the Cody Halls, Young Bucks and Camachos but they aren't really a focal point of NJPW. The only BC member that is in a main event position is Omega right now. Hall and Takahashi work meaningless tags, the Bucks are in a division that sees titles trade hands constantly, Fale is a mid carder for the most part, Camacho and his brother are a tag. NJPW is no longer really making the Bullet Club THE biggest thing in the company like it did in 2014 and 2015. It still irks me, but not enough to end me watching it. Think about this. Take the acts that you like the least in all of wrestling. Then imagine you watched an expensive show and had the main event end in a no contest because those acts and their friends did a recreation of a stale takeover angle and dominated the close of that show. Multiply that by 20 and you'll get how much I hated the end and the Bucks in general. Maybe. As for 2009, I didn't like most of it. I loved it from 2005 until 2008. I went to every show in NYC. In 2009, they wasted Nigel's GOAT run with the ROH Title (seriously, only Joe and Bryan even come close) on Jerry Lynn. Then, they should have moved it to Black. They gave it to Aries, who I liked so I wasn't too fussed. I went to Bryan and Nigel's last show, which was mostly disappointing. Then I went to Final Battle 2009 and sat there while they continued to horribly mishandle Black's quest for the belt with a terrible hour draw. I was already losing interest in the product and only saw a few matches from then until 2015.
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Post by The Champ is Here! on May 9, 2016 15:38:40 GMT -5
Adam Cole, plus Kenny and the Bucks?
Ill take all of that i can get.
I'm excited
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Post by Gone. on May 9, 2016 15:57:21 GMT -5
Does this mean that Adam Cole would be competing for the IWGP Jr. Title now? Man, Naito vs Cole would be pretty amazing too.
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Post by Jonathan Karate on May 9, 2016 16:31:14 GMT -5
I.... I just don't get it. Like, that crap was lame. It was garbage when the nWo did things like that and it sucks ass now. Yet people ate it up. The Bullet Club should die. I'm done with ROH for a while. I'll check out the occasional match that gets high praise since I'm all about finding great matches, but that's it. Like they did in 2009, they've pretty much lost me as a fan. Even as I was watching it happen I knew you were going to hate it haha. But you're mad at ROH for something that came from NJPW? Jado and Gedo Westernized the sh*t out of NJPW. They were the ones to breath life into the BC for so long. You can't get mad at ROH for keeping it viable for an American audience, who honestly has very limited exposure to the group even now. Not to mention, the ROH version of the stable, so the Elite and Adam Cole, are going to be awesome together everywhere they go. It's the NJPW elements, minus Omega, who feel like the NWO Black and White B-team. I just don't get how you're mad at ROH for making one of their top stars the centerpiece of the most popular faction in wrestling, but you're ok with NJPW running Cody Hall and Camacho out there and that doesn't affect your loyalty to that brand? Also, can we talk about why you gave up on ROH in 2009? A Double's second world title run, and simultaneously Tyler Black's title chase, was one of the best stretches in the company's history. I am mad at ROH. NJPW came up with it and drove it into the ground, but ROH making it their biggest angle, two years too late, is lame. Add in that the Bullet Club, with Cole and the Bucks, is still lame and I have no interest in seeing it. I like Cole, but not enough to get past it like I could with AJ Styles. I hate the Cody Halls, Young Bucks and Camachos but they aren't really a focal point of NJPW. The only BC member that is in a main event position is Omega right now. Hall and Takahashi work meaningless tags, the Bucks are in a division that sees titles trade hands constantly, Fale is a mid carder for the most part, Camacho and his brother are a tag. NJPW is no longer really making the Bullet Club THE biggest thing in the company like it did in 2014 and 2015. It still irks me, but not enough to end me watching it. Think about this. Take the acts that you like the least in all of wrestling. Then imagine you watched an expensive show and had the main event end in a no contest because those acts and their friends did a recreation of a stale takeover angle and dominated the close of that show. Multiply that by 20 and you'll get how much I hated the end and the Bucks in general. Maybe. As for 2009, I didn't like most of it. I loved it from 2005 until 2008. I went to every show in NYC. In 2009, they wasted Nigel's GOAT run with the ROH Title (seriously, only Joe and Bryan even come close) on Jerry Lynn. Then, they should have moved it to Black. They gave it to Aries, who I liked so I wasn't too fussed. I went to Bryan and Nigel's last show, which was mostly disappointing. Then I went to Final Battle 2009 and sat there while they continued to horribly mishandle Black's quest for the belt with a terrible hour draw. I was already losing interest in the product and only saw a few matches from then until 2015.[/quote] I agree with so much of this and yet I actually like the idea of Cole joining. Your spot on for 2009 ROH man. Losing Bryan and Nigel hurt them so much.
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johnnyaustin21
Main Eventer
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Post by johnnyaustin21 on May 9, 2016 17:01:55 GMT -5
I am a big fan of the Bullet Club but felt after AJ,Anderson and Gallows left that the stable should have ended.I guess I understand trying to keep it going with it being such a hot angle and profitable as well but kind of feel that theirs been to many members now.I like they actually have a credible main event caliber guy back in the BC with Adam Cole but kind of felt again that the BC should have ended and Omega and the Bucks could have just been the ELITE as a new stable.Anyways I hope that the BC gets thin down a bit and where just left with Cole,Omega,Young Bucks,Guerrillas of Density and Bad Luck Fale.I would be even down with kicking out the Gurrillas and having them be there own thing because they kind of suck and drag down the others in terms of in ring quality plus they already have a great tag team in the stable with The Bucks.
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