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Post by K5 on Sept 13, 2012 12:58:41 GMT -5
Why should anybody give a damn what middle America thinks? I hate mass opinion, most of their opinions are forcefed tbh. No way i ever state that Aerosmith was a better band than the Ramones because most of a dumbed down society thinks so. Not that Aerosmith isn't cool, just using an example. My point is, popular opinion is silly. Talent is talent clear as day. Someone who isn't a sheep. I applaud you. so i, of all people, am now a sheep even though i don't buy into just about anything and watch raw whenever it doesn't get in the way of anything at all - like even sleeping? to be a sheep you have to follow, and i am not following anything. in fact, punk broke the mold for NOT following and being a typical sheep. i mean, when i was 16 on this forum and decided i wanted to be straight edge just because my favourite bands and cm punk was, i was being a sheep. at 22, just enjoying him for the level of quality performances he puts out and acknowledging his place as a great, i'm a sheep? you're a ing idiot, dude.
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Post by nexusagainstus on Sept 13, 2012 13:00:39 GMT -5
It was sarcasm man. Relaxe.
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Post by K5 on Sept 13, 2012 13:04:43 GMT -5
Best overallpackage? Fair but they removes Punk from the running. There are guys who draw more $$$$ Guys who possess a better look. More refined/polished wrestlers Promos are really the only area where he stands a chance at winning out everybody in wrestling. A guy who was a great overall package is Ric Flair and i'm not even a Flair guy. But what he was in the 80s was what a wrestler would need to be before he should proclaiming to be the best. There you go, Ric Flair is the measuring stick. as i said, the BEST OVERALL. so ziggler may have a great look, better than cm punk, but he falls in the other ways that cm punk is better at AND cm punk has a great look. yes, ric flair was 'the package'. but was he a big man with muscles? nope. still doesn't take away that, overall, he is the package.
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Post by jade88 on Sept 13, 2012 13:06:00 GMT -5
Why should anybody give a damn what middle America thinks? I hate mass opinion, most of their opinions are forcefed tbh. No way i ever state that Aerosmith was a better band than the Ramones because most of a dumbed down society thinks so. Not that Aerosmith isn't cool, just using an example. My point is, popular opinion is silly. Talent is talent clear as day. you completely missed my point. i'm not saying that you go with the masses or the majority, i'm saying when you actually put the two bands up to the light what did they do? how are they relevant to progression in what they do? pink floyd's the wall is an amazing piece of work. it stands the test of time. rather you like the wall or not, it is one of the GREATEST albums ever without question. the amount of conceptualization, progression in music, and breaking boundaries speaks for itself and puts pink floyd in line with the musical 'greats', at least in rock n roll. this is indisputable. you can like or dislike pink floyd, but they're ing pink floyd. i'd relate say, ric flair, to this position in wrestling. get it now? I do get it now. I'm sorry, i thught you were just saying relevance mattered based on popularity - popular thought. Based on pure talent yes i'd have to give Pink Floyd or even Ric Flair alot of credit. Their bodies of work are hard to are amazing. But why should it stop me from saying the Ramones or Bret Hart are better if thats my opinion. Just because one bands albums get deemed classics, doesn't make it set in stone neccessarily. A lesser praised band still could have the better work.
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Post by K5 on Sept 13, 2012 13:06:13 GMT -5
It was sarcasm man. Relaxe. i could see 0 reason to post that other than to stir the pot, if that's the case.
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Post by jade88 on Sept 13, 2012 13:07:25 GMT -5
Best overallpackage? Fair but they removes Punk from the running. There are guys who draw more $$$$ Guys who possess a better look. More refined/polished wrestlers Promos are really the only area where he stands a chance at winning out everybody in wrestling. A guy who was a great overall package is Ric Flair and i'm not even a Flair guy. But what he was in the 80s was what a wrestler would need to be before he should proclaiming to be the best. There you go, Ric Flair is the measuring stick. as i said, the BEST OVERALL. so ziggler may have a great look, better than cm punk, but he falls in the other ways that cm punk is better at AND cm punk has a great look. yes, ric flair was 'the package'. but was he a big man with muscles? nope. still doesn't take away that, overall, he is the package. Although Flair was a 3-4 in the body department, he had a solid 10 in many other areas. I just don't see Punk being a 10 in anything other than mic skills.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2012 13:07:26 GMT -5
I hate how you say "Anyone that thinks he's the best is just a blind sheep". Such an ignorant statement.
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Post by K5 on Sept 13, 2012 13:09:02 GMT -5
you completely missed my point. i'm not saying that you go with the masses or the majority, i'm saying when you actually put the two bands up to the light what did they do? how are they relevant to progression in what they do? pink floyd's the wall is an amazing piece of work. it stands the test of time. rather you like the wall or not, it is one of the GREATEST albums ever without question. the amount of conceptualization, progression in music, and breaking boundaries speaks for itself and puts pink floyd in line with the musical 'greats', at least in rock n roll. this is indisputable. you can like or dislike pink floyd, but they're ing pink floyd. i'd relate say, ric flair, to this position in wrestling. get it now? I do get it now. I'm sorry, i thught you were just saying relevance mattered based on popularity - popular thought. Based on pure talent yes i'd have to give Pink Floyd or even Ric Flair alot of credit. Their bodies of work are hard to are amazing. But why should it stop me from saying the Ramones or Bret Hart are better if thats my opinion. Just because one bands albums get deemed classics, doesn't make it set in stone neccessarily. A lesser praised band still could have the better work. you're right, and as long as you could represent those points about your lesser known band validly, and by validly i don't mean just consumed by personal opinion and obvious bias, than you'd have made a great point in the debate. my favourite wrestler of all time is bret hart, but i know he's not 'the total package'. even heel bret of 1997 can't stop me from saying that. i love bret hart, i think he's so much better than shawn michaels due to personality and in ring ability (partly preference, obviously), but shawn is 'the package' over bret any day of the week.
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Post by K5 on Sept 13, 2012 13:10:25 GMT -5
as i said, the BEST OVERALL. so ziggler may have a great look, better than cm punk, but he falls in the other ways that cm punk is better at AND cm punk has a great look. yes, ric flair was 'the package'. but was he a big man with muscles? nope. still doesn't take away that, overall, he is the package. Although Flair was a 3-4 in the body department, he had a solid 10 in many other areas. I just don't see Punk being a 10 in anything other than mic skills. see, that's completely reasonable. it could be debated rather or not punk is a 10 in anything else than mic skills.
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Post by nexusagainstus on Sept 13, 2012 13:12:06 GMT -5
I hate how you say "Anyone that thinks he's the best is just a blind sheep". Such an ignorant statement. Nobody was calling Punk the best in the world until he called himself that in the infamous pipe bomb promo. Not saying that there werent people who didnt think he may have been the best, or that he wasnt some people's favorites because I know he was but as soon as he claimed himself to be that, it kinda just became the general concensus on here that he is the best in the world.
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Post by jade88 on Sept 13, 2012 13:17:54 GMT -5
I do get it now. I'm sorry, i thught you were just saying relevance mattered based on popularity - popular thought. Based on pure talent yes i'd have to give Pink Floyd or even Ric Flair alot of credit. Their bodies of work are hard to are amazing. But why should it stop me from saying the Ramones or Bret Hart are better if thats my opinion. Just because one bands albums get deemed classics, doesn't make it set in stone neccessarily. A lesser praised band still could have the better work. you're right, and as long as you could represent those points about your lesser known band validly, and by validly i don't mean just consumed by personal opinion and obvious bias, than you'd have made a great point in the debate. my favourite wrestler of all time is bret hart, but i know he's not 'the total package'. even heel bret of 1997 can't stop me from saying that. i love bret hart, i think he's so much better than shawn michaels due to personality and in ring ability (partly preference, obviously), but shawn is 'the package' over bret any day of the week. Fair enough. But the Bret Hart total package thing is the #1 thing in pro wrestling talk that bothers me. Bret Hart was the real. He didn't need to make silly faces and tell jokes. Make overexaggerated facial expressions and look like he was cutting a ''wrestling promo'' . He looked at the camera and spoke in a quiet, honest way. He was more believable that 100 percent of his peers. People got emotional over alot of his angles, because everything he said sounded authentic. Bret was an A+ promo guy in my mind. Popular opinion is that he wasn't, but nobody pulled at my heartstrings more when delivering a promo. Theres more than one way to get something accomplished. But if it's not the cookie cutter universally accepted way, it's overlooked. To get back on topic, anything is debatable if you really think about. One guys total package could be dog crap to another. Unless someone tries to say some deathmatch guy is the best, there are alot of valid arguments out there haha.
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Post by wabarrett on Sept 13, 2012 13:22:25 GMT -5
Why should anybody give a damn what middle America thinks? I hate mass opinion, most of their opinions are forcefed tbh. No way i ever state that Aerosmith was a better band than the Ramones because most of a dumbed down society thinks so. Not that Aerosmith isn't cool, just using an example. My point is, popular opinion is silly. Talent is talent clear as day. you completely missed my point. i'm not saying that you go with the masses or the majority, i'm saying when you actually put the two bands up to the light what did they do? how are they relevant to progression in what they do? pink floyd's the wall is an amazing piece of work. it stands the test of time. rather you like the wall or not, it is one of the GREATEST albums ever without question. the amount of conceptualization, progression in music, and breaking boundaries speaks for itself and puts pink floyd in line with the musical 'greats', at least in rock n roll. this is indisputable. you can like or dislike pink floyd, but they're ing pink floyd. i'd relate say, ric flair, to this position in wrestling. get it now? Yeah but by the same logic I'd have to admit that Justin Bieber is one of the greatest pop musicians in recent times because he's really popular and sold a s*** load of his s*** music. But I won't. In my opinion, and I'll sound like an a-hole now, there's just a lot of idiots who buy s*** music. Ya know?
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Post by Chip on Sept 13, 2012 13:22:59 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2012 13:24:20 GMT -5
I hate how you say "Anyone that thinks he's the best is just a blind sheep". Such an ignorant statement. Nobody was calling Punk the best in the world until he called himself that in the infamous pipe bomb promo. Not saying that there werent people who didnt think he may have been the best, or that he wasnt some people's favorites because I know he was but as soon as he claimed himself to be that, it kinda just became the general concensus on here that he is the best in the world. So what's your point? As soon as he says something, people aren't allowed to believe it? I've thought CM Punk was one of the best wrestlers I had ever seen since long before coming to the WWE. Best in the world is just a gimmick anyways. CM Punk may believe he is the best in the world, can you blame him? If you don't believe you are the best at what you're doing, then why bother?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2012 13:27:01 GMT -5
you completely missed my point. i'm not saying that you go with the masses or the majority, i'm saying when you actually put the two bands up to the light what did they do? how are they relevant to progression in what they do? pink floyd's the wall is an amazing piece of work. it stands the test of time. rather you like the wall or not, it is one of the GREATEST albums ever without question. the amount of conceptualization, progression in music, and breaking boundaries speaks for itself and puts pink floyd in line with the musical 'greats', at least in rock n roll. this is indisputable. you can like or dislike pink floyd, but they're ing pink floyd. i'd relate say, ric flair, to this position in wrestling. get it now? Yeah but by the same logic I'd have to admit that Justin Bieber is one of the greatest pop musicians in recent times because he's really popular and sold a s*** load of his s*** music. But I won't. In my opinion, and I'll sound like an a-hole now, there's just a lot of idiots who buy s*** music. Ya know? Which is true. Ironically, it reminds me of a CM Punk quote. "Just because you sold seven million albums doesn't mean you're talented. It just means that there are seven million people that are stupid as hell."
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Post by marino13 on Sept 13, 2012 13:28:43 GMT -5
So because people have their own opinions it makes them a sheep? Only on WF. Yup, apparently! Ya gotta love the logic that if your opinion is different than theirs then you must be a sheep. Personally I think the word sheep is disrespectful to other people's opinion. And it's almost as misused as the word buried. But... what do I know? BAAAA
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Post by wabarrett on Sept 13, 2012 13:29:25 GMT -5
Yeah but by the same logic I'd have to admit that Justin Bieber is one of the greatest pop musicians in recent times because he's really popular and sold a s*** load of his s*** music. But I won't. In my opinion, and I'll sound like an a-hole now, there's just a lot of idiots who buy s*** music. Ya know? Which is true. Ironically, it reminds me of a CM Punk quote. "Just because you sold seven million albums doesn't mean you're talented. It just means that there are seven million people that are stupid as hell." Of course, mate. Unfortunately, if someone wanted, they could apply the same thing here: 'Just because you are called the best in the world doesn't mean you're talented, it just means that there are ____ wrestling fans who are stupid as hell.' I don't agree with that statement I just typed btw, just sayin' lol.
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thespecialone
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 8, 2009 17:48:05 GMT -5
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Post by thespecialone on Sept 13, 2012 13:30:18 GMT -5
I think not even CM Punk actually thinks he is the best in the world...
He is pretty up there imo though...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2012 13:36:59 GMT -5
Which is true. Ironically, it reminds me of a CM Punk quote. "Just because you sold seven million albums doesn't mean you're talented. It just means that there are seven million people that are stupid as hell." Of course, mate. Unfortunately, if someone wanted, they could apply the same thing here: 'Just because you are called the best in the world doesn't mean you're talented, it just means that there are ____ wrestling fans who are stupid as hell.' I don't agree with that statement I just typed btw, just sayin' lol. You could really apply it to anything, for the sake of an argument haha "Just because you sold 7 million boxes of cereal doesn't mean you make good cereal, it just means 7 million people like crappy cereal"
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Post by nexusagainstus on Sept 13, 2012 13:37:31 GMT -5
I think not even CM Punk actually thinks he is the best in the world... He is pretty up there imo though... I don't know about all that. He's a pretty egotistical person.
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