Deleted
Joined on: Sept 21, 2024 4:32:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2012 3:46:44 GMT -5
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar didn't have a big fight feel to you? What are you looking for Tyson Vs. Holy field again? I think you are just tired of the product. Step away from it and come back when something interest you again.
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June
Main Eventer
High Fives All Around!!!
Joined on: May 31, 2009 10:54:49 GMT -5
Posts: 4,457
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Post by June on Dec 4, 2012 7:16:53 GMT -5
Taker v Triple H and Rock vs Cdma at Mania had the big match feel, as did Lesnar v Cena at Extreme Rules, and Lesnar vs Triple H at SummerSlam. Nothing else this year has captured my imagination.
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 21, 2024 4:32:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2012 7:27:01 GMT -5
Last match to have that feel for me was Punk/Cena from Money in the Bank.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Dec 4, 2012 7:50:01 GMT -5
Not to mention the fact that everyone on the main roster (not counting part timers and recently debuted wrestlers) have already wrestled each other numerous times. That's the key thing. Punk vs Ryback felt like a PPV main event build to me because it wasn't a match that we've already seen a thousand times. Look at something like Sheamus vs Wade Barrett, Sheamus vs Ziggler, Orton vs Ziggler, Orton vs Del Rio, Kofi vs Ziggler etc etc. They've had a ton of matches on TV that are roughly the same quality that they'd have on PPV. So when they then present those matches on PPV, it feels like you're being ripped off paying $45 for something that's free TV quality. Somehow, WWE needs to find a way to fill TV time without giving away all these 10-15 minute PPV-style matches, because they're absolutely killing the chance to sell those same matches on PPV.
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Daniel F'n Bryan
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 24, 2011 0:33:48 GMT -5
Posts: 2,929
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Post by Daniel F'n Bryan on Dec 5, 2012 10:09:23 GMT -5
The matches I felt had a "Big Match" feel this year were:
Cena/Rock HHH/Taker Punk/Jericho at mania Lesnar/Cena Lesnar/HHH
other then that everythings felt pretty dull.
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Post by robinsonben36 on Dec 5, 2012 14:27:58 GMT -5
I think there are three things that are currently really holding WWE back. - Hot-shotting and overexposure. This was mentioned on the first page -- there are almost no fresh matchups left on the roster. Because WWE now has six(!) weekly programs (including NXT), there is too much TV time to be filled. I remember about six months ago, we got the first-ever (that I can recall) Miz vs. CM Punk match on RAW, but it wasn't advertised, there was no angle, and the announcers didn't hype Miz as a suitable and credible opponent for Punk. To be really honest, I'm not even sure who won and I couldn't pinpoint what month the match even happened in. But Miz was still a pretty hot heel at the time, and Punk was white-hot as the babyface champion. You would think they could have made some money on that match, or at least popped a decent rating if they would have given it any build whatsoever. But nope... it seems pretty obvious that they threw the match together at the last minute and didn't plan on having it lead anywhere whatsoever. We had a similar scenario a few months ago that saw the first-ever Cena/Daniel Bryan match that was announced exactly three minutes before it started -- great job maximizing the value of that fresh matchup. Right now, besides Cena, Punk, Sheamus, Show and Orton... I feel like nobody else on the roster matters at all. Guys like Ziggler and Bryan can work and have great characters, but they've been dominated and buried by every one of the guys I listed above sometime in the last year or so. But if Ziggler loses to Cena at TLC, he will have completely lost all value as a TV character. And I'm terrified that we're going to see that in 10 days. This is the reason that WCW went out of business!
- Historically bad commentary on RAW. Unfortunately, Michael Cole is better now than he was a year ago, but Jerry Lawler hasn't had value as a commentator in close to a decade. He doesn't make any effort to put anybody over but Sheamus and Cena, he isn't funny, and despite having almost 40 years of experience in the ring, he doesn't give any kind of credible analysis of the action. Cole has spent the better part of the last two years putting himself over at the expense of the wrestlers (even the heels!) and his play-by-play is embarrassing; he ruined almost every pay-per-view of 2011 with his self-serving commentary that didn't enhance the storylines or action. Listening to these morons and comparing them with Gorilla Monsoon and Bobby Heenan is depressing to me as a wrestling fan. Vince was better in the early-90s. Hell, even the Nitro crew that wasn't given the finish to the matches was better than the current RAW commentators. If it was my decision, I'd make Josh Matthews and JBL the new voices of RAW and would probably release Cole and Lawler altogether, or possibly put them on Saturday Morning Slam since their commentary is so simple and juvenile.
- The "Reality Era." I'm so sick of the current guys burying each other with insider semi-shoot insults that don't at all contribute to the segments or angles at large. I think this stuff really started almost a decade ago when Triple H was the unstoppable ruler of RAW, calling guys out for their lack of technical wrestling ability (Cena) or even bush league things like bringing up Booker T's legal history (about three weeks after he ended Booker's tenure as a credible main eventer at Wrestlemania 19). Punk and Cena are the more recent egregious offenders. Punk is a great heel, and he's been fantastic lately, but the way that he basically eviscerated The Miz on the mic on Monday night is inexcusably bad writing (or just bad behavior by him if it wasn't scripted). In the glory days, when heels and faces sparred on the mic, at the end of the segment both guys would be more over. But today it seems like everyone is fighting each other to see who can bury their opponent more. I'm not sure how Miz at all benefitted from his two segments with Punk on Monday but they just should have had a competitive match instead. And Cena is basically a middle-schooler in the body of a 40-year-old man; he isn't likable at all on the mic because all he's done for the past two months is tease Vickie Guerrero for her looks and called CM Punk a worthless champion. And guess who gets more over by any of that? Nobody.
To be honest, I think WWE would be best-served to bring back the early format of RAW that featured a couple of squash matches and one or two competitive matches instead. It would protect all of the regulars on the roster and actually build anticipation as opposed to keeping the regular format of RAW, where we're just getting mostly really poorly booked and promoted matches that don't elevate any of the participants. When I was a kid it was a really big deal to see my favorite wrestlers on TV... these days nobody on TV really excites me that much anymore (except when I see some of the more talented, underutilized guys on RAW, even though I know they're about to get murdered in two minutes by Alberto Del Rio or Sheamus). Honestly, the only matches of the last five years I can remember that I was genuinely psyched to see were Cena/Miz at last years' Wrestlemania, Cena/Punk at MITB '11, and Cena/Rock from this years' Wrestlemania. I am a fan and I want to love the product, but that's three matches in five years. 15 years ago, nearly every single PPV had one or two can't-miss matchups because back then we were getting brilliantly written angles, great commentary, and engaging promos that helped mold dynamic characters. These days, I feel like it's an extremely rare event when there is a memorable segment on RAW or a highly-anticipated PPV that delivers. And that just shouldn't happen.
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Post by wrestling4ever on Dec 6, 2012 11:04:40 GMT -5
Rock/Punk
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Post by Jaz on Dec 6, 2012 11:26:55 GMT -5
Rock and Cena?
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Post by K5 on Dec 6, 2012 11:27:12 GMT -5
crapbooking that confuses more than entices the audience.
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gawd6sic6™
Main Eventer
" I cross the lines you love to hate "
Joined on: Jan 13, 2009 13:50:08 GMT -5
Posts: 4,868
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Post by gawd6sic6™ on Dec 6, 2012 13:34:33 GMT -5
i understand what the OP is getting at... but i look forward to the whole event... not just one match... a PPV is an excuse for me to get some friends over to the house and relax.. so i dont ever feel like im shelling out $45 for one match...
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Post by wabarrett on Dec 6, 2012 15:45:30 GMT -5
I think most of the posts in this thread are spot on.
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TheBadGuyChico
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
Joined on: Dec 3, 2012 10:34:41 GMT -5
Posts: 1,715
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Dec 6, 2012 17:45:06 GMT -5
I think there are three things that are currently really holding WWE back. - Hot-shotting and overexposure. This was mentioned on the first page -- there are almost no fresh matchups left on the roster. Because WWE now has six(!) weekly programs (including NXT), there is too much TV time to be filled. I remember about six months ago, we got the first-ever (that I can recall) Miz vs. CM Punk match on RAW, but it wasn't advertised, there was no angle, and the announcers didn't hype Miz as a suitable and credible opponent for Punk. To be really honest, I'm not even sure who won and I couldn't pinpoint what month the match even happened in. But Miz was still a pretty hot heel at the time, and Punk was white-hot as the babyface champion. You would think they could have made some money on that match, or at least popped a decent rating if they would have given it any build whatsoever. But nope... it seems pretty obvious that they threw the match together at the last minute and didn't plan on having it lead anywhere whatsoever. We had a similar scenario a few months ago that saw the first-ever Cena/Daniel Bryan match that was announced exactly three minutes before it started -- great job maximizing the value of that fresh matchup. Right now, besides Cena, Punk, Sheamus, Show and Orton... I feel like nobody else on the roster matters at all. Guys like Ziggler and Bryan can work and have great characters, but they've been dominated and buried by every one of the guys I listed above sometime in the last year or so. But if Ziggler loses to Cena at TLC, he will have completely lost all value as a TV character. And I'm terrified that we're going to see that in 10 days. This is the reason that WCW went out of business!
- Historically bad commentary on RAW. Unfortunately, Michael Cole is better now than he was a year ago, but Jerry Lawler hasn't had value as a commentator in close to a decade. He doesn't make any effort to put anybody over but Sheamus and Cena, he isn't funny, and despite having almost 40 years of experience in the ring, he doesn't give any kind of credible analysis of the action. Cole has spent the better part of the last two years putting himself over at the expense of the wrestlers (even the heels!) and his play-by-play is embarrassing; he ruined almost every pay-per-view of 2011 with his self-serving commentary that didn't enhance the storylines or action. Listening to these morons and comparing them with Gorilla Monsoon and Bobby Heenan is depressing to me as a wrestling fan. Vince was better in the early-90s. Hell, even the Nitro crew that wasn't given the finish to the matches was better than the current RAW commentators. If it was my decision, I'd make Josh Matthews and JBL the new voices of RAW and would probably release Cole and Lawler altogether, or possibly put them on Saturday Morning Slam since their commentary is so simple and juvenile.
- The "Reality Era." I'm so sick of the current guys burying each other with insider semi-shoot insults that don't at all contribute to the segments or angles at large. I think this stuff really started almost a decade ago when Triple H was the unstoppable ruler of RAW, calling guys out for their lack of technical wrestling ability (Cena) or even bush league things like bringing up Booker T's legal history (about three weeks after he ended Booker's tenure as a credible main eventer at Wrestlemania 19). Punk and Cena are the more recent egregious offenders. Punk is a great heel, and he's been fantastic lately, but the way that he basically eviscerated The Miz on the mic on Monday night is inexcusably bad writing (or just bad behavior by him if it wasn't scripted). In the glory days, when heels and faces sparred on the mic, at the end of the segment both guys would be more over. But today it seems like everyone is fighting each other to see who can bury their opponent more. I'm not sure how Miz at all benefitted from his two segments with Punk on Monday but they just should have had a competitive match instead. And Cena is basically a middle-schooler in the body of a 40-year-old man; he isn't likable at all on the mic because all he's done for the past two months is tease Vickie Guerrero for her looks and called CM Punk a worthless champion. And guess who gets more over by any of that? Nobody.
To be honest, I think WWE would be best-served to bring back the early format of RAW that featured a couple of squash matches and one or two competitive matches instead. It would protect all of the regulars on the roster and actually build anticipation as opposed to keeping the regular format of RAW, where we're just getting mostly really poorly booked and promoted matches that don't elevate any of the participants. When I was a kid it was a really big deal to see my favorite wrestlers on TV... these days nobody on TV really excites me that much anymore (except when I see some of the more talented, underutilized guys on RAW, even though I know they're about to get murdered in two minutes by Alberto Del Rio or Sheamus). Honestly, the only matches of the last five years I can remember that I was genuinely psyched to see were Cena/Miz at last years' Wrestlemania, Cena/Punk at MITB '11, and Cena/Rock from this years' Wrestlemania. I am a fan and I want to love the product, but that's three matches in five years. 15 years ago, nearly every single PPV had one or two can't-miss matchups because back then we were getting brilliantly written angles, great commentary, and engaging promos that helped mold dynamic characters. These days, I feel like it's an extremely rare event when there is a memorable segment on RAW or a highly-anticipated PPV that delivers. And that just shouldn't happen. This was a very well thought out post. I can honestly say i agree with everything you said. I loved squash matches for the simple fact that they slowed the product down by limiting how many times actual superstars faced. My #1 issue with pro wrestling at large is how many matches have little to no meaning or purpose. We're in an era where quanity>quality reigns supreme and i hate it. Even in the early days of Raw when live tv was taking over the product, they still found a way to create purpose. The IC tile level guys worked on tv alot, the WWF title level guys only furthered their stores via promos etc. most of the time. I loved the style of the product in those days, left me wanting more. Now there isn't much i really care to see. I want another Taker/Lesnar matchup and Rock vs. Punk should be incredible, but thats it.
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Post by HHH316 on Dec 6, 2012 17:54:21 GMT -5
I think Punk/Rock already has the "big match feel."
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Joe Delta
Main Eventer
Generic Dad sells well
Joined on: Jan 28, 2005 16:30:07 GMT -5
Posts: 2,534
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Post by Joe Delta on Dec 6, 2012 22:49:00 GMT -5
Anyone else just not excited about wrestling and it has nothing to do with the rating? WWE could be TV-MA or even TV-Y and it would still be really boring to me. The last time i ordered a ppv was Summerslam for Lesnar/HHH of course. I was very happy with that main event, exactly the kind've matches that draw me in. I just feel like the star power is at an all time low in WWE. To their credit the WWE is building stars but none are of any interest to me. I loved 2009's main events. Alot of Cena,HHH,Orton,Hardy,Jericho,Edge,Undertaker,Kane,Batista, and HBK. Thats a roster of guys that i can watch on a regular basis week to week. Sheamus,Ryback,Punk, and Cena just aren't enough for me and i'm a big Cena fan. Anyone else just really bored with the lack of big stars in the mix and big blockbuster main events? Im bored of CM Punk winning each time, I dont give a damn about him or his reign. And i know alot of people(non marks) who feel the same.
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Post by K5 on Dec 7, 2012 0:55:58 GMT -5
I think there are three things that are currently really holding WWE back. - Hot-shotting and overexposure. This was mentioned on the first page -- there are almost no fresh matchups left on the roster. Because WWE now has six(!) weekly programs (including NXT), there is too much TV time to be filled. I remember about six months ago, we got the first-ever (that I can recall) Miz vs. CM Punk match on RAW, but it wasn't advertised, there was no angle, and the announcers didn't hype Miz as a suitable and credible opponent for Punk. To be really honest, I'm not even sure who won and I couldn't pinpoint what month the match even happened in. But Miz was still a pretty hot heel at the time, and Punk was white-hot as the babyface champion. You would think they could have made some money on that match, or at least popped a decent rating if they would have given it any build whatsoever. But nope... it seems pretty obvious that they threw the match together at the last minute and didn't plan on having it lead anywhere whatsoever. We had a similar scenario a few months ago that saw the first-ever Cena/Daniel Bryan match that was announced exactly three minutes before it started -- great job maximizing the value of that fresh matchup. Right now, besides Cena, Punk, Sheamus, Show and Orton... I feel like nobody else on the roster matters at all. Guys like Ziggler and Bryan can work and have great characters, but they've been dominated and buried by every one of the guys I listed above sometime in the last year or so. But if Ziggler loses to Cena at TLC, he will have completely lost all value as a TV character. And I'm terrified that we're going to see that in 10 days. This is the reason that WCW went out of business!
- Historically bad commentary on RAW. Unfortunately, Michael Cole is better now than he was a year ago, but Jerry Lawler hasn't had value as a commentator in close to a decade. He doesn't make any effort to put anybody over but Sheamus and Cena, he isn't funny, and despite having almost 40 years of experience in the ring, he doesn't give any kind of credible analysis of the action. Cole has spent the better part of the last two years putting himself over at the expense of the wrestlers (even the heels!) and his play-by-play is embarrassing; he ruined almost every pay-per-view of 2011 with his self-serving commentary that didn't enhance the storylines or action. Listening to these morons and comparing them with Gorilla Monsoon and Bobby Heenan is depressing to me as a wrestling fan. Vince was better in the early-90s. Hell, even the Nitro crew that wasn't given the finish to the matches was better than the current RAW commentators. If it was my decision, I'd make Josh Matthews and JBL the new voices of RAW and would probably release Cole and Lawler altogether, or possibly put them on Saturday Morning Slam since their commentary is so simple and juvenile.
- The "Reality Era." I'm so sick of the current guys burying each other with insider semi-shoot insults that don't at all contribute to the segments or angles at large. I think this stuff really started almost a decade ago when Triple H was the unstoppable ruler of RAW, calling guys out for their lack of technical wrestling ability (Cena) or even bush league things like bringing up Booker T's legal history (about three weeks after he ended Booker's tenure as a credible main eventer at Wrestlemania 19). Punk and Cena are the more recent egregious offenders. Punk is a great heel, and he's been fantastic lately, but the way that he basically eviscerated The Miz on the mic on Monday night is inexcusably bad writing (or just bad behavior by him if it wasn't scripted). In the glory days, when heels and faces sparred on the mic, at the end of the segment both guys would be more over. But today it seems like everyone is fighting each other to see who can bury their opponent more. I'm not sure how Miz at all benefitted from his two segments with Punk on Monday but they just should have had a competitive match instead. And Cena is basically a middle-schooler in the body of a 40-year-old man; he isn't likable at all on the mic because all he's done for the past two months is tease Vickie Guerrero for her looks and called CM Punk a worthless champion. And guess who gets more over by any of that? Nobody.
To be honest, I think WWE would be best-served to bring back the early format of RAW that featured a couple of squash matches and one or two competitive matches instead. It would protect all of the regulars on the roster and actually build anticipation as opposed to keeping the regular format of RAW, where we're just getting mostly really poorly booked and promoted matches that don't elevate any of the participants. When I was a kid it was a really big deal to see my favorite wrestlers on TV... these days nobody on TV really excites me that much anymore (except when I see some of the more talented, underutilized guys on RAW, even though I know they're about to get murdered in two minutes by Alberto Del Rio or Sheamus). Honestly, the only matches of the last five years I can remember that I was genuinely psyched to see were Cena/Miz at last years' Wrestlemania, Cena/Punk at MITB '11, and Cena/Rock from this years' Wrestlemania. I am a fan and I want to love the product, but that's three matches in five years. 15 years ago, nearly every single PPV had one or two can't-miss matchups because back then we were getting brilliantly written angles, great commentary, and engaging promos that helped mold dynamic characters. These days, I feel like it's an extremely rare event when there is a memorable segment on RAW or a highly-anticipated PPV that delivers. And that just shouldn't happen. i'm enjoying your posts more and more.
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