MonsoonMan
Main Eventer
SE Wisconsin, NE Illinois figure hunter.
Joined on: Jan 1, 2012 22:47:05 GMT -5
Posts: 2,379
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Post by MonsoonMan on Jan 16, 2013 16:44:46 GMT -5
i DESPISE cena.
the whole white rapper gimmick straight from the beginning was something i really did not enjoy. the whole "hip, urban, white guy talking 'street slang'" schtick rubs me the wrong way.
his matches are boring as hell. 5 moves of doom. all that needs to be said.
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Post by Irish Wrestling Entertainment on Jan 16, 2013 17:47:37 GMT -5
A lot of the replies might as well just read, 'I hate him 'cause he beats my favorite guys.' Which sometimes, I actually understand and agree with. @$heamus. Firstly, being in a match and holding his own against Cena has already made Ziggler a bigger star. That guy has been doing the same s*** for a while now too, i.e. having a woman cut most of his promos and jobbing to main event guys. It's piss poor that little has changed in that regard, but yet I think most would agree that he looks a bigger star now. Some of that comes down to this feud with Cena. Secondly, a lot of that stuff you typed could be applied to Sheamus too. Guess none of the Superman stuff, repetitiveness, steamrolling everyone and the fact that a chunk of the adult male demographic don't care for him, doesn't bother you? With regards to your first point, I don't understand what you mean. WWE is, in essence, a soap opera. If, on a soap opera, a character never features, then that character is irrelevant. If the character suddenly features in one of the main storylines (a la Dolph with Cena), then that character becomes relevant. That relevance may or may not last forever, depending on how that character is booked. This is identical to pro-wrestling. Of course, Ziggler being booked with Cena is making him a bigger star. What was he before? Nothing. Nobody in WWE is anything until creative focuses on them - they are one-dimensional; they can't book a card properly as they focus wholly on a few guys. However, of course losing to Cena on a day-to-day basis all around the country after throwing everything but the kitchen sink at him is hurting Ziggler's credibility. It is those career defining victories that MAKE stars. That heighten stars. That make kids hate the stars. WWE seem to have forgotten how to escalate guys to the next level. So many, such as Ziggler, are on the brink. But WWE don't know how to take it that step further and make the guy a star. That's why WWE's current roster appears to be seriously lacking even though there is a hell of a lot of talent there. They are not booked properly. Remember, wrestling = soap opera. The creative team controls wrestling, particularly in modern day WWE. Not the superstars (except CM Punk, but he was the rebel against the status quo). The Sheamus thing was a sly dig. I watched the guy work in Ireland for years before he came to WWE. My support for him lies deeper than how WWE are booking him at present. To answer your question (for me, at least) WWE don't really satisfy me with much, of any, of their booking. From curtain jerker to main eventer. I don't trust them with the Shield, just like I didn't trust them with the Nexus. I think they'll mess it up. But Vince will make his millions regardless, because he's operating a monopoly in an industry with no competition (and no potential for competition either, mind). I know that's long, but hopefully you'll read it willbuh. Our debates can be fun lol
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Post by wwextreme25 on Jan 16, 2013 17:59:32 GMT -5
He's always on and off....sometimes i like him, sometimes i hate him...depends what he does
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Post by WalterF on Jan 16, 2013 20:22:07 GMT -5
I like cena. I respect him as a person and wrestler and a driven dedicated guy. On the same token he will never be my favorite because I've always preferred more agile technical wrestlers like Bret hbk Jericho punk and so on. He's definitely an asset to the business though so he is fine by me
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Post by Johnny Wrestling on Jan 16, 2013 20:36:13 GMT -5
The guy that recently lost the title totally cleanly? Yeah. That guy. He lost the Title cleanly, doesn't mean he didn't spent the whole of 2012 squashing guys, or that he wasn't winning all the time, or that a good portion of fans didn't enjoy anything he did all year, or that he never showed weakness (up until that loss). I get what you mean, man, I do, but still, it has been a year and a half at most that we've seen Sheamus as a face and pretty much starting to win more. After being a 2 time WWE Champion he started losing a lot, won King of the Ring and pretty much kept on losing. Now as a face he's gone on another path which recently showed us he was dominant, but not invincible. He lost the title cleanly, and if I'm not mistaken, his last match against Big Show ended up with another clean victory for Show. Cena, ever since 2004, lost the title to Orlando Jordan (and I'm not sure sure if that was clean) only because he was going to win the WWE Championship in just a few weeks after that. He lost the title because someone cashed in on him after an EC match and regained the title just three weeks later. At that point, on 2006, he's never lost the title cleanly. Not even a feud cleanly. The only one I can recall is his loss against Batista at SummerSlam, but going back to 2004 and after that SummerSlam match against Batista, I don't think you could mention a match Cena has lost cleanly, let alone losing a title.
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Post by WalterF on Jan 16, 2013 21:58:05 GMT -5
Yeah. That guy. He lost the Title cleanly, doesn't mean he didn't spent the whole of 2012 squashing guys, or that he wasn't winning all the time, or that a good portion of fans didn't enjoy anything he did all year, or that he never showed weakness (up until that loss). I get what you mean, man, I do, but still, it has been a year and a half at most that we've seen Sheamus as a face and pretty much starting to win more. After being a 2 time WWE Champion he started losing a lot, won King of the Ring and pretty much kept on losing. Now as a face he's gone on another path which recently showed us he was dominant, but not invincible. He lost the title cleanly, and if I'm not mistaken, his last match against Big Show ended up with another clean victory for Show. Cena, ever since 2004, lost the title to Orlando Jordan (and I'm not sure sure if that was clean) only because he was going to win the WWE Championship in just a few weeks after that. He lost the title because someone cashed in on him after an EC match and regained the title just three weeks later. At that point, on 2006, he's never lost the title cleanly. Not even a feud cleanly. The only one I can recall is his loss against Batista at SummerSlam, but going back to 2004 and after that SummerSlam match against Batista, I don't think you could mention a match Cena has lost cleanly, let alone losing a title. He lost to rock lol. Jokes aside I do agree with him being booked in a predictable way but I don't think its really his fault
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Post by Johnny Wrestling on Jan 17, 2013 3:35:36 GMT -5
I get what you mean, man, I do, but still, it has been a year and a half at most that we've seen Sheamus as a face and pretty much starting to win more. After being a 2 time WWE Champion he started losing a lot, won King of the Ring and pretty much kept on losing. Now as a face he's gone on another path which recently showed us he was dominant, but not invincible. He lost the title cleanly, and if I'm not mistaken, his last match against Big Show ended up with another clean victory for Show. Cena, ever since 2004, lost the title to Orlando Jordan (and I'm not sure sure if that was clean) only because he was going to win the WWE Championship in just a few weeks after that. He lost the title because someone cashed in on him after an EC match and regained the title just three weeks later. At that point, on 2006, he's never lost the title cleanly. Not even a feud cleanly. The only one I can recall is his loss against Batista at SummerSlam, but going back to 2004 and after that SummerSlam match against Batista, I don't think you could mention a match Cena has lost cleanly, let alone losing a title. He lost to rock lol. Jokes aside I do agree with him being booked in a predictable way but I don't think its really his fault I don't know why I just seem to forget that all the time, but it is probably due to me, and many, expecting Cena to defeat Rock this year in a match with higher stakes on the line, thus adding yet another feud won by Cena. And yeah, it's not his fault. I don't think I actually blamed him, but it is ridiculous nonetheless.
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yinyang
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
We're here...
Joined on: Dec 31, 2002 10:00:22 GMT -5
Posts: 4,110
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Post by yinyang on Jan 17, 2013 3:54:10 GMT -5
i like him, i just dont want him to win the rumble or win the wwe title this year.
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Post by Valbroski on Jan 17, 2013 3:56:49 GMT -5
I respect his work ethic and what he's done for fans outside of the ring but he seems like he'd be a dick to work with. I've never got this. Are we basing this off of the opinions of a bunch of pissed off guys that no longer work with him or is there something I'm missing? Serious question. It's just an assumption. I don't know the guy, I've never been in a wwe locker room so I have no idea first hand how he is in that environment. I'm basing it off both what past talent has said about him and his work ethic/standing with the company.
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Post by Phantom on Jan 17, 2013 4:26:23 GMT -5
Huge fan of his when I was younger. He was over and he was the right guy to push to the top and there's no doubt about it. Right around Survivor Series 2009 is when he got really stale to me and he has been ever since. I'm just bored of his character on tv whether its a reflection of his true self or not. They should have switched it up a long time ago. The idea of him winning the Rumble sickens me and the only way I would want to see Rock vs. Cena II is if turned you know what. That probably won't ever happen though.
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Post by wabarrett on Jan 17, 2013 11:40:22 GMT -5
@$heamus & Lone Wolf, honestly guys I cannot disagree with anything either of you said.
I've never understood the constant complaining every time Cena wins because, being the top guy (or one of the top guys) in the company, he should win the majority of the time because, quite simply (in kayfabe of course), Cena's the best the WWE has to offer. BUT, I too get pissed off at times when I think about how Cena has been THE single no.1 guy for like 6 years now.
The problem I have with it isn't that he beats a lot of the rising stars, it's not even that he beats them majority of the time, it's because a lot of those rising stars have never beaten Cena (or, as you said, at least not clean). And the problem with that is, Cena comes across as unbeatable. Us fans are now under the impression that we well never see anyone who can match or outdo John Cena, ever. Over the years, countless talents have come and gone and never got close to his level, whereas years ago, competition was high; sure, Rock and Austin and Triple H dominated the AE, but Kane, Foley, Undertaker and later Angle, Jericho, Benoit etc all looked on a similar level.
As you guys said it does come down to booking and WWE's cluelessness. I have no problem with Cena being the top guy, I guess that comes with being a big fan of him, but I totally see where people are coming from, because it honestly does look like (aside from Punk) there hasn't been a guy on his level and won't be for the forseeable future. Austin was good, and Rock was good, and Orton is good and Sheamus is good, but Cena is booked like he is in a totally different, elite league of his own. And that gets a bit hard to buy into as a fan.
It's like the tiers are: Jobber-Midcarder-Main-Event-John Cena
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nikesandtoys
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 3, 2013 11:45:46 GMT -5
Posts: 377
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Post by nikesandtoys on Jan 17, 2013 11:48:47 GMT -5
i like cena, he is great in the ring..my problem is his gimmick is old and he is a kickout king! he kicks out of everything...makes his matches dull.
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joesgonnakillu
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 14, 2010 12:43:23 GMT -5
Posts: 1,365
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Post by joesgonnakillu on Jan 17, 2013 11:49:09 GMT -5
not a fan and never have been. last Monday on Raw is the reason why.this in Superman schtick is beyond corny. I mean if Zigglers Superkick or ZigZag is good enough to beat Orton why isnt it good enough to beat Cena? that cage match devalued Ziggler AGAIN. This. Inside the ring, stale and boring. It pissed me off the way he just smiled and walked away after a cage match. Outside the ring, really got to hand it to him how much he does for make a wish and other charities.
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 25, 2024 10:11:48 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 8:00:30 GMT -5
i like cena, he is great in the ring..my problem is his gimmick is old and he is a kickout king! he kicks out of everything...makes his matches dull. exactly. I mean......did anyone on here think Ziggler was gonna beat Cena in the middle of the ring?NO. so there goes one of the things wrestling hinges on for success.-suspension of disbelief.
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Post by "The Visionary" Eldniw on Jan 18, 2013 8:58:51 GMT -5
not a fan and never have been. last Monday on Raw is the reason why.this in Superman schtick is beyond corny. I mean if Zigglers Superkick or ZigZag is good enough to beat Orton why isnt it good enough to beat Cena? that cage match devalued Ziggler AGAIN. This. Everyone speaks about how he is 'good for the business'. Maybe so, from a merchandise perspective. What most wrestling fans regularly fail to acknowledge or overlook is several key points. - WWE have turned into a PR machine and whilst I don't question that Cena enjoys the Make-a-Wish days, he'd be doing those regardless of whether he liked them or not. He's been given the ball, if he didn't run with it - he would have lost it. - His off-air personality seems to be iffy and he seems to lord himself over the rest of the roster. Telling Punk that he 'almost gave up on him', shows that Cena can be a tool. The Alex Riley thing too. - The second most important point, think about the amount of careers he has derailed. I mean, every single person on the roster (perhaps except Punk) is on a lower echelon to Cena. You could be riding the wave of momentum and then boom, loss to Cena. Totally irrecoverable because his character buries people. Dolph Ziggler used his 2 finishers and had a double interference and couldn't beat him. Think of the effect this has on Dolph Ziggler's credibility (kayfabe). This has happened to superstar after superstar since Cena's meteoric rise and it is the main reason why no new credible stars can be created. There is an on-screen glass ceiling named John Cena. (whether or not this is his fault is irrelevant, it happens.) - The most important point, I simply don't enjoy him. As Juice said, I don't tune in every week thinking 'I can't wait to hear/watch John Cena.' He's the face of the company. He should be the main thing people are looking forward to. Only, in my opinion, around 20% of the adult male demographic want to see him on a weekly basis. And you, sir, hit the nail on the head there. I agree with it all.
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