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Post by Kliquid on Jan 30, 2013 19:20:31 GMT -5
What's funny to me is that you keep going back on whether the Soviet Union was a good thing or not. You do realize that the Soviet Union FORCED people to do certain jobs, right? As in, used the threat of violence if they stepped out of line?
I'll respond in more detail soon, but I wanted to point that out as an inherently inconsistent argument that you're making.
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Post by alwayssunny on Jan 30, 2013 19:26:47 GMT -5
What's funny to me is that you keep going back on whether the Soviet Union was a good thing or not. You do realize that the Soviet Union FORCED people to do certain jobs, right? As in, used the threat of violence if they stepped out of line? I'll respond in more detail soon, but I wanted to point that out as an inherently inconsistent argument that you're making. Is there any proof of that? If it took place during the years of 1924-1953 then I dont wanna hear about it, I could write a book against Stalin's policies. |
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 30, 2013 19:31:24 GMT -5
If you could write a book against his policies, then you probably know that he was an evil tyrant who used threat of violence and coercion to keep people in line.
I'm much more open to YOUR philosophy than his. So please stop denigrating your ideas by using the Soviet Union as some sort of study in shared, peaceful interaction.
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Post by alwayssunny on Jan 30, 2013 19:36:28 GMT -5
If you could write a book against his policies, then you probably know that he was an evil tyrant who used threat of violence and coercion to keep people in line. I'm much more open to YOUR philosophy than his. So please stop denigrating your ideas by using the Soviet Union as some sort of study in shared, peaceful interaction. I am a Marxist-Leninist, not a Stalinist. He murdered my personal hero, Vladimir Lenin, his closest political allies including Leon Trotsky, and he slaughtered millions of people. The only two premiers of the Soviet Union's policies I do not support are Stalin and Gorbachev, so when I mention the Soviet Union, I do not mean those two traitors to the ideas of Marx, Lenin, and Engels. |
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Post by slappy on Jan 30, 2013 19:46:59 GMT -5
Since you like Wikipedia so much: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimesI need sources on him being homophobic, racist and aims to let the poor and needy die. He did not write them. His writing them has been debunked. James Powell wrote them. Again, not my king. He'd be like Grover Cleveland as President. He'd veto bills that increased taxes and spent the tax payers money. He'd veto bills that were unconstitutional. He has one problem with it out of ten parts. The one part infringes on the rights of business owners. Look at the Constitution. If it's not in there then only the states have the power to do it. Sexual harassment laws are not in the Constitution which means the states must deal with them. Are you gay? If not, I find it funny that a straight person is telling a gay person how we should feel on issues that impact our lives. Proof that he said it? I mean other than the guy who made the claim, the same guy who hates Paul? If the states want to enact the programs, they can. The federal government just can't. Thomas Sowell, Peter Schiff, Walter Block, Jeffrey Tucker, etc. Those are libertarian economists. They'd say different than your libertarian hating professor. He is not my voice. I don't now what gives you any clue that Alex Jones is the mouthpiece for the Libertarian movement. The vast majority of Libertarians despise him and what he stands for. Name one dictator that you can factually prove has not killed a single person. A. All I saw was Stalin, Mao, and Pot. B. That article, the newsletters, and his political ideology C. Yes he did, its been proven. Of course he wouldnt want you to know about them, because you wouldnt like him then. D. And name one big thing Grover Cleveland did? E. Those same businesses and owners that where racist and oppressive of its black workers? F. Because it was written in the 18th century when anything a man did was okay. G. No, Im just compassionate and very supportive of the LGBT movement. H. Of course the guy would hate him, after Ron Paul said that he probably started to hate him. I. The Federal government is of higher power then state governments J. Of course they would THEY ARE BIASED TO THEIR SYSTEM K. Jones is indeed your voice in the media. L. Yuri Andropov and Konstantin Chernenko If Alex Jones is a Libertarian then Stalin, Mao and Pot are Communists. That article was bullshit, I already explained why. Again, I already gave you the name of who wrote the newsletters. JAMES POWELL. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT HIS NAME? He didn't start any wars, he didn't violate the Constitution. You don't have to do major things to be great, you can simply stop bad things from happening. If you don't like what a business owner does then shop/eat/stay/whatever elsewhere. It's like with Chick-Fil-A now. People don't like their anti-gay stance so they boycott them. No need for the government to step in and stop the restaurant from doing anything. So something from the 19th century (Marx) is ok but something from the 18th century (Constitution) is not? Great excuse. *shakes head* LMAO. Your professor would be biased towards his system and against any other system. So I guess that nulls and voids what he says. No, he is not. He is not a Libertarian radio host with news about Libertarianism or the fight for the movement. He is a conspiracy whack job and that's what his show is about. His show is not about the Libertarian movement, the players in that movement or anything to advance the movement. Those guys had very short reigns as leader of their country. If they didn't kill anyone, which you haven't proven, it's only because they were dead before they could do anything. |
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Post by Suckasays on Jan 30, 2013 19:57:30 GMT -5
This debate is like watching a cat on a treadmill. Moving fairly fast, but going nowhere...  |
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Jan 30, 2013 19:58:22 GMT -5
If you could write a book against his policies, then you probably know that he was an evil tyrant who used threat of violence and coercion to keep people in line. I'm much more open to YOUR philosophy than his. So please stop denigrating your ideas by using the Soviet Union as some sort of study in shared, peaceful interaction. I am a Marxist-Leninist, not a Stalinist. He murdered my personal hero, Vladimir Lenin, his closest political allies including Leon Trotsky, and he slaughtered millions of people. The only two premiers of the Soviet Union's policies I do not support are Stalin and Gorbachev, so when I mention the Soviet Union, I do not mean those two traitors to the ideas of Marx, Lenin, and Engels. Lenin murdered thousands of his own. For the record, Lenin wasn't murdered either. |
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Post by alwayssunny on Jan 30, 2013 20:08:32 GMT -5
I am a Marxist-Leninist, not a Stalinist. He murdered my personal hero, Vladimir Lenin, his closest political allies including Leon Trotsky, and he slaughtered millions of people. The only two premiers of the Soviet Union's policies I do not support are Stalin and Gorbachev, so when I mention the Soviet Union, I do not mean those two traitors to the ideas of Marx, Lenin, and Engels. Lenin murdered thousands of his own. For the record, Lenin wasn't murdered either. HAHA, Oh bullshit, Lenin didn't kill a single person. And for your record, Lenin was murdered: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2139527/Vladamir-Lenin-poisoned-Joseph-Stalin-Russian-communism-founder-bumped-political-rival.html?ito=feeds-newsxml |
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Post by slappy on Jan 30, 2013 20:09:45 GMT -5
Some nut is peddling that. Lenin died due to syphilis. Maybe Lenin never personally held the gun or the sword but his policies killed millions. |
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Jan 30, 2013 20:14:24 GMT -5
He may never have pulled the trigger but he damn well did sign the execution lists. |
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Jan 30, 2013 20:18:21 GMT -5
Here's a lovely quote from Lenin:
Then he proceeded in killing about 8,000 priests. Good times.
Source: Pipes, Richard (1996). The Unknown Lenin: From the Secret Archive. Yale University Press. pp. 152–154. ISBN 0-300-06919-7.
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Post by slappy on Jan 30, 2013 20:18:52 GMT -5
He may never have pulled the trigger but he damn well did sign the execution lists. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands (or millions) that died due to famine. |
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Post by alwayssunny on Jan 30, 2013 20:19:31 GMT -5
A. All I saw was Stalin, Mao, and Pot. B. That article, the newsletters, and his political ideology C. Yes he did, its been proven. Of course he wouldnt want you to know about them, because you wouldnt like him then. D. And name one big thing Grover Cleveland did? E. Those same businesses and owners that where racist and oppressive of its black workers? F. Because it was written in the 18th century when anything a man did was okay. G. No, Im just compassionate and very supportive of the LGBT movement. H. Of course the guy would hate him, after Ron Paul said that he probably started to hate him. I. The Federal government is of higher power then state governments J. Of course they would THEY ARE BIASED TO THEIR SYSTEM K. Jones is indeed your voice in the media. L. Yuri Andropov and Konstantin Chernenko If Alex Jones is a Libertarian then Stalin, Mao and Pot are Communists. That article was bullcrap, I already explained why. Again, I already gave you the name of who wrote the newsletters. JAMES POWELL. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT HIS NAME? He didn't start any wars, he didn't violate the Constitution. You don't have to do major things to be great, you can simply stop bad things from happening. If you don't like what a business owner does then shop/eat/stay/whatever elsewhere. It's like with Chick-Fil-A now. People don't like their anti-gay stance so they boycott them. No need for the government to step in and stop the restaurant from doing anything. So something from the 19th century (Marx) is ok but something from the 18th century (Constitution) is not? Great excuse. *shakes head* LMAO. Your professor would be biased towards his system and against any other system. So I guess that nulls and voids what he says. No, he is not. He is not a Libertarian radio host with news about Libertarianism or the fight for the movement. He is a conspiracy whack job and that's what his show is about. His show is not about the Libertarian movement, the players in that movement or anything to advance the movement. Those guys had very short reigns as leader of their country. If they didn't kill anyone, which you haven't proven, it's only because they were dead before they could do anything. A. Except Jones shares alot of the same beliefs of libertarianism whereas Stalin, Mao, and Pot don't share a single idea of communism B. You explain alot of things, are they true? No C. RON PAUL. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT HIS NAME? D. So you want a president who doesn't do anything major to help the United States? E. If a business is hateful, the government should step in. F. Except the ideas of Marxism are still very relevant today: www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/25/karl-marx-relevant-21st-centuryG. I don't have to be black to be against racism now do I? Its the same situation, I don't have to be gay to be a strong supporter for gay marriage. H. Except he isn't in public and his writings because he knows where it will get him nowhere in his career. I. Then explain to me, who is your media voice then? J. Then fine, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, did not cause a single death under his leadership. |
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Post by alwayssunny on Jan 30, 2013 20:23:46 GMT -5
Here's a lovely quote from Lenin: Then he proceeded in killing about 8,000 priests. Good times. Source: Pipes, Richard (1996). The Unknown Lenin: From the Secret Archive. Yale University Press. pp. 152–154. ISBN 0-300-06919-7. And did you know those same very well Priest where still preaching that Tsar Nicholas the Second was still a great man and that his reign and ideas would out do Karl Marx's ideas. |
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Post by alwayssunny on Jan 30, 2013 20:25:30 GMT -5
He may never have pulled the trigger but he damn well did sign the execution lists. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands (or millions) that died due to famine. Do you mean the famine that was caused by Tsar Nicholas II? WHen Lenin took power it took quite some time to finally feed all the hungry people, But it was done. Quit pinning something on a man who didn't do anything. |
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Post by slappy on Jan 30, 2013 20:51:22 GMT -5
If Alex Jones is a Libertarian then Stalin, Mao and Pot are Communists. That article was bullcrap, I already explained why. Again, I already gave you the name of who wrote the newsletters. JAMES POWELL. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT HIS NAME? He didn't start any wars, he didn't violate the Constitution. You don't have to do major things to be great, you can simply stop bad things from happening. If you don't like what a business owner does then shop/eat/stay/whatever elsewhere. It's like with Chick-Fil-A now. People don't like their anti-gay stance so they boycott them. No need for the government to step in and stop the restaurant from doing anything. So something from the 19th century (Marx) is ok but something from the 18th century (Constitution) is not? Great excuse. *shakes head* LMAO. Your professor would be biased towards his system and against any other system. So I guess that nulls and voids what he says. No, he is not. He is not a Libertarian radio host with news about Libertarianism or the fight for the movement. He is a conspiracy whack job and that's what his show is about. His show is not about the Libertarian movement, the players in that movement or anything to advance the movement. Those guys had very short reigns as leader of their country. If they didn't kill anyone, which you haven't proven, it's only because they were dead before they could do anything. A. Except Jones shares alot of the same beliefs of libertarianism whereas Stalin, Mao, and Pot don't share a single idea of communism B. You explain alot of things, are they true? No C. RON PAUL. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT HIS NAME? D. So you want a president who doesn't do anything major to help the United States? E. If a business is hateful, the government should step in. F. Except the ideas of Marxism are still very relevant today: www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/25/karl-marx-relevant-21st-centuryG. I don't have to be black to be against racism now do I? Its the same situation, I don't have to be gay to be a strong supporter for gay marriage. H. Except he isn't in public and his writings because he knows where it will get him nowhere in his career. I. Then explain to me, who is your media voice then? J. Then fine, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, did not cause a single death under his leadership. You can share some beliefs and not fully be something. Some Republicans claim to be anti-tax, which would be a part of Libertarianism but that doesn't make them Libertarians. You only think they are not true because you have preconceived notions and believe everything you read (as long as it fits your agenda). Again, JAMES POWELL. He wrote them. You have ZERO proof that Powell did not write them. But Cleveland did do major things to help by making sure he did not stray from the Constitution and that he did not wage war. And how would you like the government to enforce those equality laws? At the barrel of a gun, of course. He gives an example of ONE website asking the opinions of a Marxist. Hardly anything noteworthy. He also gives ONE example of noted loon (ad hominem, I know but if you are ok with them then ok) Paul Krugman. I never said that. I said you shouldn't be telling someone who is experiencing the discrimination/oppression how they should feel about it. What does "he isn't in public and his writings because he knows where it will get him nowhere in his career" mean? Are you saying your professor isn't a public figure and doesn't publish writings because he's so outside any logical thought that they'd be rejected? Reason magazine, CATO institute and Mises institute are all voices (not perfect voices but voices nonetheless, at least they have some voice unlike Jones). "Lenin's rapacious agricultural policies 1918-1923 created a famine that killed by starvation and associated diseases about 7,300,000 people." www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/RM1.LENIN.FAM.VIC2.HTM |
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Post by slappy on Jan 30, 2013 20:51:54 GMT -5
Here's a lovely quote from Lenin: Then he proceeded in killing about 8,000 priests. Good times. Source: Pipes, Richard (1996). The Unknown Lenin: From the Secret Archive. Yale University Press. pp. 152–154. ISBN 0-300-06919-7. And did you know those same very well Priest where still preaching that Tsar Nicholas the Second was still a great man and that his reign and ideas would out do Karl Marx's ideas. Are you saying it was ok to kill them because they disagreed with Marx? |
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Post by Happy Pizza on Jan 30, 2013 21:03:50 GMT -5
Yikes. This thread, man. When did Wikipedia articles and tabloids become credible sources? Here you go: www.jstor.org/Also, I guess I'd call myself a Democrat if pressed. More of a Mutualist, though. |
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Post by slappy on Jan 30, 2013 21:07:59 GMT -5
Yikes. This thread, man. When did Wikipedia articles and tabloids become credible sources? Here you go: www.jstor.org/Also, I guess I'd call myself a Democrat if pressed. More of a Mutualist, though. While I do not agree with Mutualism, I'd much rather be one than a Marxist/Communist. |
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Post by alwayssunny on Jan 30, 2013 21:10:31 GMT -5
And did you know those same very well Priest where still preaching that Tsar Nicholas the Second was still a great man and that his reign and ideas would out do Karl Marx's ideas. Are you saying it was ok to kill them because they disagreed with Marx? No, I am saying that those priest wanted to go back to a feudalistic society where only the bourgeoisie can succeed where as the proletariat are left to wither and die. So the suppression of that thought is vital to create a harmonious, loving, and supporting society. |
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