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Post by Todd Pettengill on Jan 31, 2013 23:44:04 GMT -5
What I think is funny is that some people agreeing with this are the same people that would agree with Bret even if he said the complete opposite and that Triple H was indeed a great wrestler.
Bret is very wrong on this one though. Why exactly do you have to "create" moves to be great? What does that have to do with anything? CM Punk didn't innovate or create one thing he does in the ring, in fact he stole most of his move "sequences" from KENTA. Thats not me hating on Punk thats just me showing that Bret is bias.
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Sonnen
Main Eventer
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Post by Sonnen on Feb 1, 2013 0:58:48 GMT -5
Bitter Bret is bitter.
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Post by The Undertaker on Feb 1, 2013 7:00:41 GMT -5
Saying "Watch that match and pretend its 2005" is the same thing as saying watch that match and pretend its Ricky Steamboat versus Ric Flair. There's just one problem. It's not ing 2005. Feeling a little defensive about your idol? Its okay to disagree without resorting to swearing. There are kids here you know I think Bret Hart was grading the match based purely on technical merit and I know I was. I said what I said to try and get others to picture it the same way, removed from the "end of an era" WM hype. The match itself was boring. I remember watching it and thinking "These two have lost a lot since last year." BTW - Ric Flair and Ricky Steamboat could never have a boring match, even if it was today with both of them as senior citizens. They're that good! Hey dude.. Maybe you should've actually read the thread and noticed that my first post in this thread started off with me saying I'm not a big Triple H fan.
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Post by LeighD on Feb 1, 2013 7:14:00 GMT -5
I like both men's in-ring work, Bret's far more than HHH. In fact i will say Bret is probably my favorite wrestler to watch, ever! Angle, Steiners, Road Warriors, & Flair round the upper crust.
With that said, I feel HHH has had plenty of great matches - vs. Cactus Jack, Royal Rumble 2000; vs. Undertaker, WrestleMania X-Seven, XXVII, XXVIII; vs. Rock - Iron Man Match, Judgement Day; vs. HBK, SummerSlam '02 are a few that pop into my mind.
No they are not technical greatness, but the matches are very well done.
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Post by marino13 on Feb 1, 2013 8:41:51 GMT -5
Question to all those agreeing with Hart? When HBK returned from a four year absence for a return match, whom did he ask to be his opponent? And the last two years when Undertaker wanted to have a great WM match, who did he pick to have them with? My biggest issue with trips is his over inflated title count. Growing up guys like Flair and Hogan dominated the 80s and early 90s to reach around 13 titles, guys like Sting and Bret weren't too far behind. In seemingly a few years trips caught up and I have a hard time excepting it. Then again it was a different era and let's not forget its scripted. Bret has always been in my top 3 and trips in my bottom 3 along with the asschap kid. The worst! Cena has 12 soon to be 13 reigns. Orton has nine. So Triple H's 13 isn't that outlandish really.
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Post by Escape The Rules on Feb 1, 2013 8:57:45 GMT -5
Whilst Triple H might not be on the same level as Rock, Austin, or Hogan as far as stars ago or on Bret or Shawn's level as far as wrestling goes, to say he's never had a great match is pretty ridiculous.
Bret has always been quite a mark for himself & takes himself far too seriously.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Feb 1, 2013 9:22:43 GMT -5
HHH has had great matches, but isn't a 'great' like Rock or Austin. He could go on to have a far greater legacy in the back.
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TheBadGuyChico
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Feb 1, 2013 12:17:03 GMT -5
Are you up to date? Bret spends much of his time online these days praising tons of wrestlers, even HBK! He didn't even rip HHH in this video. All he said was that he was mediocre. Is that a revelation? Triple H never excelled at any one aspect of wrestling. There are better wrestlers Better mic guys Bigger draws So please feel free to explains why he's bitter?
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TheBadGuyChico
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Feb 1, 2013 12:19:49 GMT -5
Question to all those agreeing with Hart? When HBK returned from a four year absence for a return match, whom did he ask to be his opponent? And the last two years when Undertaker wanted to have a great WM match, who did he pick to have them with? My biggest issue with trips is his over inflated title count. Growing up guys like Flair and Hogan dominated the 80s and early 90s to reach around 13 titles, guys like Sting and Bret weren't too far behind. In seemingly a few years trips caught up and I have a hard time excepting it. Then again it was a different era and let's not forget its scripted. Bret has always been in my top 3 and trips in my bottom 3 along with the asschap kid. The worst! Cena has 12 soon to be 13 reigns. Orton has nine. So Triple H's 13 isn't that outlandish really. I can almost gurantee you if guys like Benoit were alive and a guy like Angle was still in the company, Undertaker would've faced them at Mania. Notice how much better the Taker/HBK matches were?
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Post by The Undertaker on Feb 1, 2013 12:22:39 GMT -5
Are you up to date? Bret spends much of his time online these days praising tons of wrestlers, even HBK! He didn't even rip HHH in this video. All he said was that he was mediocre. Is that a revelation? Triple H never excelled at any one aspect of wrestling. There are better wrestlers Better mic guys Bigger draws So please feel free to explains why he's bitter? Never excelled at any aspect? Is that a joke? Nobody here is saying he's the best at anything. Yeah, there's "better mic guys" and "bigger draws" but how does that make him any worse? That doesn't mean he's not great or hasn't had any great matches. What's your point?
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Post by The Undertaker on Feb 1, 2013 12:26:33 GMT -5
Question to all those agreeing with Hart? When HBK returned from a four year absence for a return match, whom did he ask to be his opponent? And the last two years when Undertaker wanted to have a great WM match, who did he pick to have them with? Cena has 12 soon to be 13 reigns. Orton has nine. So Triple H's 13 isn't that outlandish really. I can almost gurantee you if guys like Benoit were alive and a guy like Angle was still in the company, Undertaker would've faced them at Mania.Notice how much better the Taker/HBK matches were? But they're not. And you can "almost guarantee" this how? Do you know Mark Callaway? Did he personally fill you in on this? Taker has already wrestled Angle and that match wasn't better than any of his matches with Triple H. This isn't what ifs or guarantees this is stuff that's actually happened. I bet if he could revert his body back to its old health he would too, but guess what, it can't happen so why are you trying to make a point with something hypothetical?
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TheBadGuyChico
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Joined on: Dec 3, 2012 10:34:41 GMT -5
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Feb 1, 2013 12:26:47 GMT -5
Are you up to date? Bret spends much of his time online these days praising tons of wrestlers, even HBK! He didn't even rip HHH in this video. All he said was that he was mediocre. Is that a revelation? Triple H never excelled at any one aspect of wrestling. There are better wrestlers Better mic guys Bigger draws So please feel free to explains why he's bitter? Never excelled at any aspect? Is that a joke? Nobody here is saying he's the best at anything. Yeah, there's "better mic guys" and "bigger draws" but how does that make him any worse? That doesn't mean he's not great or hasn't had any great matches. What's your point? What i'm saying is, he was never a 10 in any one catergory. He wasn't amazing in any one area of wrestling. Bret Hart was a 10 in wrestling ability. I still can't believe how great his body of work is. His matches in Summerslam 91-92 alone are better than anything HHH did in the ring. The Rock's promos destroy anything HHH ever did on the mic. Ditto for Jake Roberts and Ric Flair. Even a guy like Jericho was fantastic on the mic. See HHH was good at all of these things, but did he drop your jaw in any of them?
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Post by The Undertaker on Feb 1, 2013 12:30:20 GMT -5
Never excelled at any aspect? Is that a joke? Nobody here is saying he's the best at anything. Yeah, there's "better mic guys" and "bigger draws" but how does that make him any worse? That doesn't mean he's not great or hasn't had any great matches. What's your point? What i'm saying is, he was never a 10 in any one catergory. He wasn't amazing in any one area of wrestling. Bret Hart was a 10 in wrestling ability. I still can't believe how great his body of work is. His matches in Summerslam 91-92 alone are better than anything HHH did in the ring. The Rock's promos destroy anything HHH ever did on the mic. Ditto for Jake Roberts and Ric Flair. Even a guy like Jericho was fantastic on the mic. See HHH was good at all of these things, but did he drop your jaw in any of them? You don't have to have the best talent to be considered "great." Look at Hogan.
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TheBadGuyChico
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Feb 1, 2013 12:34:23 GMT -5
What i'm saying is, he was never a 10 in any one catergory. He wasn't amazing in any one area of wrestling. Bret Hart was a 10 in wrestling ability. I still can't believe how great his body of work is. His matches in Summerslam 91-92 alone are better than anything HHH did in the ring. The Rock's promos destroy anything HHH ever did on the mic. Ditto for Jake Roberts and Ric Flair. Even a guy like Jericho was fantastic on the mic. See HHH was good at all of these things, but did he drop your jaw in any of them? You don't have to have the best talent to be considered "great." Look at Hogan. His charisma was amazing and he drew millions of dollars. In mic skills-charisma he easily was the best in the whole wrestlig bussiness at one time.
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Post by The Undertaker on Feb 1, 2013 12:50:20 GMT -5
You don't have to have the best talent to be considered "great." Look at Hogan. His charisma was amazing and he drew millions of dollars. In mic skills-charisma he easily was the best in the whole wrestlig bussiness at one time. Yes, and a terrible wrestler. Just like Triple H was not great in the ring but great in terms of drawing heat and getting over as a monster heel. At one point he was the most successful heel in all of wrestling and easily the most hated.
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TheBadGuyChico
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Feb 1, 2013 12:52:19 GMT -5
His charisma was amazing and he drew millions of dollars. In mic skills-charisma he easily was the best in the whole wrestlig bussiness at one time. Yes, and a terrible wrestler. Just like Triple H was not great in the ring but great in terms of drawing heat and getting over as a monster heel. At one point he was the most successful heel in all of wrestling and easily the most hated. You can't compare Hogan to HHH. Hogan is an american icon like Marilyn Monroe and James Dean. HHH had a nice little run as the top heel yes, but lets not get carried away.
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Post by The Undertaker on Feb 1, 2013 12:57:03 GMT -5
Yes, and a terrible wrestler. Just like Triple H was not great in the ring but great in terms of drawing heat and getting over as a monster heel. At one point he was the most successful heel in all of wrestling and easily the most hated. You can't compare Hogan to HHH. Hogan is an american icon like Marilyn Monroe and James Dean. HHH had a nice little run as the top heel yes, but lets not get carried away. Was Triple H a top heel? Yes. It's not his fault the business wasn't as popular as it was in Hogan's time. You said Triple H didn't excel in anything. So he wasn't one of the best heels ever? He didn't excel in getting heat? He didn't excel in putting over young stars? I beg to differ. Sure, he wasn't a phenomenal in ring worker and his mic skills weren't legendary, but that doesn't mean he didnt excel in anything else.
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JuiceWinslow
Main Eventer
Flair Country
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Post by JuiceWinslow on Feb 1, 2013 13:21:10 GMT -5
I was never a big fan of Triple H.
But he has a great persona and was was very entertaining throughout his career. Probably one of the best heels ever.
Never really thought of him as a great wrestler myself. But he has always been very solid. Also - The Pedigree is one of the coolest moves ever.
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Post by marino13 on Feb 1, 2013 14:52:08 GMT -5
Question to all those agreeing with Hart? When HBK returned from a four year absence for a return match, whom did he ask to be his opponent? And the last two years when Undertaker wanted to have a great WM match, who did he pick to have them with? I can almost gurantee you if guys like Benoit were alive and a guy like Angle was still in the company, Undertaker would've faced them at Mania. Notice how much better the Taker/HBK matches were? Sorry but just cause you have an opinion does not make it a fact. Cause I personally loved the last two Triple H matches just as much as I did the first HBK match. To me they told a great story with their match. And THAT is a lost art in this day & age. And I also loved Triple H vs Taker much more than I did Hart vs HBK at WM12. A match many consider to be an all time classic. And last I checked neither of us have a crystal ball so how on Earth would anyone know who Taker WOULD have picked? All I know is who he DID pick. And he picked a guy who he knew could help him have a WM moment. And it's obviously to many he did. It was ranked number 1 in PWI magazine for 2012.... Match of the Year: The Undertaker vs. Triple H at WrestleMania 28 "Nothing can be said here, there simply is no argument. The Undertaker versus Triple H told one of the most passionate and invested stories wrestling has seen in well over three years, since Taker first battled Shawn Michaels on the grandest stage of them all. Both men were left battered and bruised at the final bell, and along with Shawn Michaels as referee, it made the perfect blend of brutality and emotion.
There were a number of great matches this year, I’m sure in the coming weeks you’ll here about many, but any list which features this bout below number one is instantly meaningless and that’s putting it lightly.
A phenomenal match to end an era, a phenomenal match to end a feud, a phenomenal match from two of the greatest of all-time".And in a year when Rock & Lesnar both returned to the ring, What was WWE's choice for Slammy Award winner for Match of the Year? You guessed it... Triple H vs Undertaker at WM28... gasp!
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Post by The Undertaker on Feb 1, 2013 15:24:03 GMT -5
I can almost gurantee you if guys like Benoit were alive and a guy like Angle was still in the company, Undertaker would've faced them at Mania. Notice how much better the Taker/HBK matches were? Sorry but just cause you have an opinion does not make it a fact. Cause I personally loved the last two Triple H matches just as much as I did the first HBK match. To me they told a great story with their match. And THAT is a lost art in this day & age. And I also loved Triple H vs Taker much more than I did Hart vs HBK at WM12. A match many consider to be an all time classic. And last I checked neither of us have a crystal ball so how on Earth would anyone know who Taker WOULD have picked? All I know is who he DID pick. And he picked a guy who he knew could help him have a WM moment. And it's obviously to many he did. It was ranked number 1 in PWI magazine for 2012.... Match of the Year: The Undertaker vs. Triple H at WrestleMania 28 "Nothing can be said here, there simply is no argument. The Undertaker versus Triple H told one of the most passionate and invested stories wrestling has seen in well over three years, since Taker first battled Shawn Michaels on the grandest stage of them all. Both men were left battered and bruised at the final bell, and along with Shawn Michaels as referee, it made the perfect blend of brutality and emotion.
There were a number of great matches this year, I’m sure in the coming weeks you’ll here about many, but any list which features this bout below number one is instantly meaningless and that’s putting it lightly.
A phenomenal match to end an era, a phenomenal match to end a feud, a phenomenal match from two of the greatest of all-time".And in a year when Rock & Lesnar both returned to the ring, What was WWE's choice for Slammy Award winner for Match of the Year? You guessed it... Triple H vs Undertaker at WM28... gasp!
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