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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jun 15, 2013 23:37:57 GMT -5
Yeah Shawn WOULD deny it. It doesn't exactly make him look good.And honestly he may not even remember it, he was so  ed up at the time it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't even know it happened. It doesn't exactly make Undertaker look like a genius, either. If the rumored conversation was true (it's in the "we'll never know if it's a work or not" category, even with Taker's comments), there was nothing to gain from Taker beating up HBK. Even at his largest, Shawn was barely bigger than the average man. Taker beating up a nearly-crippled Shawn wouldn't have made him look tough at all. Moreover, if Taker's threat had caused the volatile HBK to leave the building with the belt, via another route, it could have been disaster for the WWF. Shawn could have gone on Nitro and just trashed the WWF ( with Nash, Hogan, and Bischoff's blessing ) and possibly done what Madusa did with the Women's title. I have a hard time believing Taker would be that stupid. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2013 4:29:37 GMT -5
Yeah Shawn WOULD deny it. It doesn't exactly make him look good.And honestly he may not even remember it, he was so ed up at the time it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't even know it happened. It doesn't exactly make Undertaker look like a genius, either. If the rumored conversation was true (it's in the "we'll never know if it's a work or not" category, even with Taker's comments), there was nothing to gain from Taker beating up HBK. Even at his largest, Shawn was barely bigger than the average man. Taker beating up a nearly-crippled Shawn wouldn't have made him look tough at all. Moreover, if Taker's threat had caused the volatile HBK to leave the building with the belt, via another route, it could have been disaster for the WWF. Shawn could have gone on Nitro and just trashed the WWF ( with Nash, Hogan, and Bischoff's blessing ) and possibly done what Madusa did with the Women's title. I have a hard time believing Taker would be that stupid. Taker was protecting the business and making sure Shawn did the right thing. I'm pretty sure no one would look at Taker as being an idiot for decking the guy every one had hated for the last 5 or so years. Also, Bischoff would have never allowed the WWF title to show up on Nitro, they were still feeling the sting of the lawsuit Vince slapped on them for the Women's title even a couple years later. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2013 4:33:19 GMT -5
ya see......what happened with Medusa and her belt could NEVER have happened again.its why one of Vinces reasons for the screwjob are total BS......
WWF filed a trademark infringement lawsuit against WCW in the Summer of 1996 and a WWF title belt as intellectual property of Vince could never be featured on their TV again.
it would have cost WCW Millions to do this and the higher ups would never have allowed it.the trademark suit was a big deal......Warriors debut promo in 98 cost them a fortune too.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jun 17, 2013 5:41:57 GMT -5
Taker was protecting the business and making sure Shawn did the right thing. I'm pretty sure no one would look at Taker as being an idiot for decking the guy every one had hated for the last 5 or so years. Also, Bischoff would have never allowed the WWF title to show up on Nitro, they were still feeling the sting of the lawsuit Vince slapped on them for the Women's title even a couple years later. The scenario makes Taker sound like a lunkhead who is used to solving problems with his fists instead of his intellect. That rarely works. Shawn was never a legitimate fighter like Shamrock and he was already experiencing tremendous pain. Even if Undertaker beat him senseless, what would it have accomplished? I don't see the upside. If Shawn had bolted with the belt, Nash and Hall would have convinced Bischoff to let Shawn have a field day on Nitro. Shawn has stated that he threatened Vince with similar scenarios during that time period, which may have been part of the reason Shawn got away with so many backstage shenanigans. He might even have gone on Nitro and said things without Bischoff's permission. He certainly wasn't above doing things like that, as Jim Ross has pointed out with several RAW references. That could have been a nightmare scenario for Vince. Moreover, had Taker followed through and actually attacked Shawn, the WWF could have had a potentially costly situation on their hands. Maybe the WWF lawyers could have convinced a jury that Shawn was a drug-riddled jerk who angered to many co-workers, but maybe the jury thinks a pro wrestling company's lockeroom drama is irrelevant in the wake of a healthy giant beating up a physically compromised normal-sized man. Maybe Shawn could have won a huge settlement. Maybe Taker did permanent damage and ends up in jail. It doesn't sound like Taker thought about the ramifications of the adult world, which isn't like a grade school playground. 9 times out of 10, throwing your weight around as an adult has negative repercussions, even if the target of the beating deserves it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2013 6:01:44 GMT -5
Taker was protecting the business and making sure Shawn did the right thing. I'm pretty sure no one would look at Taker as being an idiot for decking the guy every one had hated for the last 5 or so years. Also, Bischoff would have never allowed the WWF title to show up on Nitro, they were still feeling the sting of the lawsuit Vince slapped on them for the Women's title even a couple years later. The scenario makes Taker sound like a lunkhead who is used to solving problems with his fists instead of his intellect. That rarely works. Shawn was never a legitimate fighter like Shamrock and he was already experiencing tremendous pain. Even if Undertaker beat him senseless, what would it have accomplished? I don't see the upside. If Shawn had bolted with the belt, Nash and Hall would have convinced Bischoff to let Shawn have a field day on Nitro. Shawn has stated that he threatened Vince with similar scenarios during that time period, which may have been part of the reason Shawn got away with so many backstage shenanigans. He might even have gone on Nitro and said things without Bischoff's permission. He certainly wasn't above doing things like that, as Jim Ross has pointed out with several RAW references. That could have been a nightmare scenario for Vince. Moreover, had Taker followed through and actually attacked Shawn, the WWF could have had a potentially costly situation on their hands. Maybe the WWF lawyers could have convinced a jury that Shawn was a drug-riddled jerk who angered to many co-workers, but maybe the jury thinks a pro wrestling company's lockeroom drama is irrelevant in the wake of a healthy giant beating up a physically compromised normal-sized man. Maybe Shawn could have won a huge settlement. Maybe Taker did permanent damage and ends up in jail. It doesn't sound like Taker thought about the ramifications of the adult world, which isn't like a grade school playground. 9 times out of 10, throwing your weight around as an adult has negative repercussions, even if the target of the beating deserves it. Shawn isn't an idiot. Do you really think he'd take McMahon's title onto another show, and then instantly go on the rival show and not do as he's told and then get fired for causing them a huge lawsuit? He'd never have been able to work in the industry again. Sometimes with an idiot like Shawn, hitting them is the only way to get through to them, Taker knew that. That's why the threat was there. |
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gravedigger3
Main Eventer
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Post by gravedigger3 on Jun 17, 2013 13:45:59 GMT -5
God if that's true I wonder how Shawn would of ended up if he eve did go to Wcw, I think he would be another Scott Hall right now
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jun 18, 2013 0:46:24 GMT -5
The scenario makes Taker sound like a lunkhead who is used to solving problems with his fists instead of his intellect. That rarely works. Shawn was never a legitimate fighter like Shamrock and he was already experiencing tremendous pain. Even if Undertaker beat him senseless, what would it have accomplished? I don't see the upside. If Shawn had bolted with the belt, Nash and Hall would have convinced Bischoff to let Shawn have a field day on Nitro. Shawn has stated that he threatened Vince with similar scenarios during that time period, which may have been part of the reason Shawn got away with so many backstage shenanigans. He might even have gone on Nitro and said things without Bischoff's permission. He certainly wasn't above doing things like that, as Jim Ross has pointed out with several RAW references. That could have been a nightmare scenario for Vince. Moreover, had Taker followed through and actually attacked Shawn, the WWF could have had a potentially costly situation on their hands. Maybe the WWF lawyers could have convinced a jury that Shawn was a drug-riddled jerk who angered to many co-workers, but maybe the jury thinks a pro wrestling company's lockeroom drama is irrelevant in the wake of a healthy giant beating up a physically compromised normal-sized man. Maybe Shawn could have won a huge settlement. Maybe Taker did permanent damage and ends up in jail. It doesn't sound like Taker thought about the ramifications of the adult world, which isn't like a grade school playground. 9 times out of 10, throwing your weight around as an adult has negative repercussions, even if the target of the beating deserves it.
Sometimes with an idiot like Shawn, hitting them is the only way to get through to them, Taker knew that. That's why the threat was there. Yes, Shawn was a complete idiot back then. He was ingesting copious amounts of alcohol, painkillers, and just about any drug he could get his hands on. Someone like that is capable of just about anything because their thought processes are skewed and convoluted. He very well could have used live WCW air time to do damage to the WWF (which he could have done even without the belt) just for the sake of getting revenge. Obviously, someone who puts his/her life in danger with drugs and alcohol isn't thinking about long-term consquences for their actions. Taker's threat, if the story is true, is indicative of someone who lacked awareness, especially the legal aspect. The concepts of "protecting the business" and "teaching someone a lesson" would come off as vapid and juvenile to a judge. Society has undergone a paradigm shift over the last few decades when it comes to adults solving problems with violence. People can and do get sued and jailed all the time because they chose to respond with their base urges rather than their intellect. In Taker's case, attacking someone in the terrible physical condition of HBK in '98, could have been absolute disaster for the company and him. Had Shawn ended up hospitalized, paralyzed, or in a coma because Taker assaulted him, there is no way a jury would swallow the defense of "Oh, but Shawn didn't do the job". |
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jun 18, 2013 0:57:54 GMT -5
God if that's true I wonder how Shawn would of ended up if he eve did go to Wcw, I think he would be another Scott Hall right now It would have been a Randy Savage-like burnt bridge, even without Shawn wrestling for Turner. Had he denigrated the WWF in such a tenuous time for Vince back then, Shawn would have been persona non grata even once he got healthy in '02. But I don't know if the jump would have changed the course of his personal life. Without his religious conversion, he might have commited suicide or overdosed. He and Scott Hall are both very lucky to be alive. |
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gravedigger3
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Post by gravedigger3 on Jun 18, 2013 12:52:03 GMT -5
God if that's true I wonder how Shawn would of ended up if he eve did go to Wcw, I think he would be another Scott Hall right now It would have been a Randy Savage-like burnt bridge, even without Shawn wrestling for Turner. Had he denigrated the WWF in such a tenuous time for Vince back then, Shawn would have been persona non grata even once he got healthy in '02. But I don't know if the jump would have changed the course of his personal life. Without his religious conversion, he might have commited suicide or overdosed. He and Scott Hall are both very lucky to be alive. Well say Shawn left during the periods he was threatening Vince 95-96ish had he left he wouldn't have faced Taker in the casket match and got injured so say he had left to wcw he wouldn't be home as much and he might have not had the cookie moment with his son that made him decide to sober up |
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Raine
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Post by Raine on Jun 18, 2013 13:30:04 GMT -5
ya see......what happened with Medusa and her belt could NEVER have happened again.its why one of Vinces reasons for the screwjob are total BS...... WWF filed a trademark infringement lawsuit against WCW in the Summer of 1996 and a WWF title belt as intellectual property of Vince could never be featured on their TV again. it would have cost WCW Millions to do this and the higher ups would never have allowed it.the trademark suit was a big deal...... Warriors debut promo in 98 cost them a fortune too. Tell me more Jokerman.... |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 17:55:42 GMT -5
LOL....heres what I know.basically he was told because of the "sensitivity" of the issue with Vince/WWF he was not to call himself Ultimate Warrior under any circumstances and stay away from certain topics.
Hellwig did his own thing and basically sealed the lid on the infringement lawsuit.I believe they had to pay Vinnie a shitload or royalties for that Promo alone.
Bisch covers it pretty accurately I believe on the WWF Warrior DVD.now I may have some of this wrong but Royalties were owed/paid because of this promo and during it Bisch was said to be sitting in the guerrilla position with his head in his hands.
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Post by mikey1974 on Jun 18, 2013 20:24:41 GMT -5
actually,Bischoff was in the ring with Hogan and Warrior...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2013 5:41:52 GMT -5
actually,Bischoff was in the ring with Hogan and Warrior... LOL so he was......my bad.there was somebody in the guerrilla position with their head in their hands......defo heard that.who could that have been? maybe some WCW legal type?my buddy says JJ Dillon talks about it on his shoot too. |
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Post by Captain McKay on Jun 19, 2013 22:28:46 GMT -5
In regards to HBK and Undertaker, the people saying Undertaker wasn't thinking clearly are forgetting two things.
A.) It was already mentioned no one backstage would have blamed Undertaker for leveling Shawn, had it come to that. As for the whole legal entanglement, I'd wager that 90% of that locker room would have "not seen anything" and/or denied any altercation, if it came to that. Hell, many of them might have said Shawn instigated it, since no one liked him back then. As for Shawn's injuries, it's not like this was the sort of thing that'd be outrageous for Shawn to be doing while he was healthy and 100%.
B.) HBK had his way all the time back then, and no amount of actual threatening from anyone would have changed that. Until, that is, you took the guy everyone considered a leader backstage, who was usually quiet and not stirring up any trouble, and have him imply that bad things are going to happen to HBK if things don't go correctly. Even if you're Shawn Michaels in the Attitude Era...if you're in WWF in 1998, and Undertaker tells you that you should do something, you're doing it.
Would Undertaker have looked like a bully? Maybe. Would anyone have looked down on him? I really doubt it. EVERYONE knew it was Austin's time.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jun 21, 2013 6:01:36 GMT -5
In regards to HBK and Undertaker, the people saying Undertaker wasn't thinking clearly are forgetting two things. A.) It was already mentioned no one backstage would have blamed Undertaker for leveling Shawn, had it come to that. As for the whole legal entanglement, I'd wager that 90% of that locker room would have "not seen anything" and/or denied any altercation, if it came to that. Hell, many of them might have said Shawn instigated it, since no one liked him back then. As for Shawn's injuries, it's not like this was the sort of thing that'd be outrageous for Shawn to be doing while he was healthy and 100%. Would Undertaker have looked like a bully? Maybe. Would anyone have looked down on him? I really doubt it. EVERYONE knew it was Austin's time. What about the two people who accompanied Shawn to the back, HHH and Chyna? What about any of the production crew who might have felt a moral obligation to come forward had Shawn been seriously injured? I always roll my eyes at wrestlers--and Taker certainly isn't the only one--who talk with the mentality of a 13-year-old in shoot interviews. The cold, hard fact is that if you injure by attacking them, the situation moves out of the realm of your job and your co-workers opinions. There's a 17-year-old sitting in a jail cell in Utah right now, and two girls without a father, because a he decided to play tough guy and "teach a ref a lesson". A single punch later, and he gets a succession of small rooms for many years to come. But enough about Taker and Shawn. Monday night reminded me of the infamous altercation between Mark Henry and Michael Hayes. Lucky for Mark that there were enough people there to hold him back that night, because he probably would have put Hayes in the hospital. And Hayes is about as bright as muddy water for throwing around the N-bomb. |
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Post by Colter on Jun 21, 2013 20:27:11 GMT -5
My personal favorite is Jericho/Goldberg brawl. The way it was told in "Undisputed" was classic.
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Post by The Yes Man on Jun 22, 2013 11:04:29 GMT -5
My personal favorite is Jericho/Goldberg brawl. The way it was told in "Undisputed" was classic. This. The image of Jericho holding in a front facelock while Goldberg is trying to get out like a bull, while Kevin Nash is in the corner looking on, is friggin hilarious. |
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Post by Colter on Jun 22, 2013 12:16:08 GMT -5
My personal favorite is Jericho/Goldberg brawl. The way it was told in "Undisputed" was classic. This. The image of Jericho holding in a front facelock while Goldberg is trying to get out like a bull, while Kevin Nash is in the corner looking on, is friggin hilarious. My favorite part is when Goldberg says to Y2J that Mike Tenay said Jericho said stuff on the internet about Goldberg and Jericho says something among the lines of "I don't even have time to check Club Jenna properly, let alone say stuff about Bill F*****n Goldeye." Oh and "Nash Mantis." |
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Post by The Yes Man on Jun 22, 2013 14:45:16 GMT -5
This. The image of Jericho holding in a front facelock while Goldberg is trying to get out like a bull, while Kevin Nash is in the corner looking on, is friggin hilarious. My favorite part is when Goldberg says to Y2J that Mike Tenay said Jericho said stuff on the internet about Goldberg and Jericho says something among the lines of "I don't even have time to check Club Jenna properly, let alone say stuff about Bill F*****n Goldeye." Oh and "Nash Mantis." My goodness, the fight with Goldberg makes Jericho even more awesome. |
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