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Post by Rated R on Jun 9, 2013 1:20:17 GMT -5
So it's no secret that the WFWF is not in the best of ways right now (four people showing for a show will do that to a fed) so I want to get a discussion going about what we can do to turn this place around. Now by we I don't mean just us owners, I'm talking about everybody who is a part of the fed because the WFWF is only as strong as the members we have actively playing a part in it. I'll leave a list below about what ideas have been proposed (I'll even get it started with one of my own) so that people know what we've talked about and give their opinions on it. So people, what can we do to restore this place to what it used to be? List of Ideas- An overhaul of the deadline / scheduling system to streamline the time it takes between shows, INCLUDING the time it takes for results to go up.
- Advertising and recruiting to build up a reliable, consistent roster.
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Post by bad guy™ on Jun 9, 2013 3:30:47 GMT -5
We need people. We can only do so much with what we have.
I love match writing. I love writing results. I have absolutely no motivation to do any of that when there are only a couple of people active. Hell...I am in the top story here and I have no motivation to write anything for it. I know it is fun for me and Mike but why write something that will never be read by more than Schneider and Demon, moreso for proofing than necessarily caring about the story. I cannot speak for Dale but I would imagine he thinks something similar.
But I have gone to the well so many times here in the lounge. It gets us a couple of guys, all of whom quit a few shows later. Sure, we once in a while get lucky and get an Ace/Mak/Nitta but...adding one person is not going to solve this population issue we are having here.
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Post by Markw on Jun 9, 2013 4:47:08 GMT -5
We need people. We can only do so much with what we have. I love match writing. I love writing results. I have absolutely no motivation to do any of that when there are only a couple of people active. Hell...I am in the top story here and I have no motivation to write anything for it. I know it is fun for me and Mike but why write something that will never be read by more than Schneider and Demon, moreso for proofing than necessarily caring about the story. I cannot speak for Dale but I would imagine he thinks something similar. But I have gone to the well so many times here in the lounge. It gets us a couple of guys, all of whom quit a few shows later. Sure, we once in a while get lucky and get an Ace/Mak/Nitta but...adding one person is not going to solve this population issue we are having here. Maybe, but having those two or three extra people, even for just a couple of shows, is going to make the place look a lot more attractive when you're looking to convince people to return or advertising the place on sites like RoughKut (Note: This might be worth a read). Let's face it, no one is going to look at an E-Fed that had 4 people RP for the last show and think 'Yeah, I'll sign up for that'. Perhaps targeting the lounge isn't the best way to go about it, but if Trace has anyone on the Sims who he knows would be reliable and gets on with then that's the kind of person who needs to be convinced. Same goes for Devilkiller or Schneider(?) in the Text Fed/Fantasy Booking Boards. Encouraging people who are already interested in writing is going to be a lot more productive. I'm not saying bombard the people on those forums with PMs because that's just annoying, but if you do talk to anyone else on the forum regularly then just mention that we could use a few more people and would be happy for them to join. I think that, whilst time constraints are obviously a problem for some people, a lot of it is also going to come down to motivation. I get that people have personal lives and that, that has to take precedence, I mean I've had/have four exams from last Monday to next Tuesday that are going to determine whether or not I go to university and as a result there's no way I'm handing anything in to contribute to this show, unless nothing is up before then. So I do understand. But I find it hard to believe that all 6 people who no-showed were too busy to get something up. I know that when I used to no-show more frequently, motivation rather than being too busy was the main reason for it (In that whilst I may well have been busy on deadline day, I had plenty of time to work on a RP prior to that and didn't). There are a few issues that jump out at me with the E-Fed at the moment and I know that you guys won't be oblivious to them. Replies to RP's are a big one, because I've never really felt confident in my own work and because I'm not a big reader generally, I've never been very good at it. But back in the day there were tons of people on the roster who would give you feedback, for me feedback, be it negative or positive, is a big motivator. Having guys like Alex, EBR, Kurt, Thunder, Calvin, Wayne, Obo, Horror, Trace, Revvie was fantastic and it motivated me either to work on the flaws that those guys would point out or to build on any success I had. I think that it's something we're really lacking at the moment and I know I don't help. There's not a lot you can do other than encourage people to try and do that. Hopefully when I'm done with my exams and have a bit more spare time it's something I can improve on personally, and the more people who do it, the more likely others are to follow suit. Stuff like the Predictions/GD naming/Power Rankings/WFWF.COM haven't really worked out when you've tried them for a variety of reasons. But I do think it's worth persevering with stuff like that, a couple of those can't really be done with the numbers we have at the moment, but I don't see why WFWF.COM can't be updated be it by one of the owners or even just different members of the fed. Maybe it didn't get a great reception but I thought it was a good idea, and trying to get people having fun is going to keep them coming back, at the very least it's a great way of distracting people from the wait for results or for cards to go up. After next week I'd be happy to help with anything like that if you think it's going to be beneficial. Right now, if I was looking for an E-Fed to join, I wouldn't pick the WFWF and that's not just because of the lack of people. But there's not really an awful lot that makes the place unique, maybe it's just me, but when I look at this E-Fed it doesn't really stand out, there's not an awful lot that makes it look better than any of the other options out there and until that changes, attempts made to recruit people probably aren't going to be that successful. Anyway, I'm glad that this is being acknowledged and attempts are being made to address the issues with the fed, it was a nice distraction from revising, but I guess I should get back to that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2013 8:45:45 GMT -5
Its actually quite sad to see the promotion like this. When I joined the WFWF it was a very busy place. Now with what we have, and its not a lot, we should be building tge future of the company. Basically, if someone joins and proves to show, put them into a feud with a guy like Demento or Devilkiller. This is why I've stated this time around, I am basically in a mini-feud with Cam Nitta and the fact that I'm not in meaningless matches is what keeps me motivated.
I also do believe that we can add some character developpment ti the company. We should let the writers to write a blog post or something to add to the promotion while the shows are being worked on.
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Devilkiller
Main Eventer
WFWF. Go see about it.
Joined on: Mar 17, 2012 16:49:19 GMT -5
Posts: 1,868
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Post by Devilkiller on Jun 9, 2013 17:15:08 GMT -5
I have someone new coming in! More to come later..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2013 18:49:14 GMT -5
I have someone new coming in! More to come later.. I have also tried to reach out to other members. This place should be booming considering the summer is here.
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Devilkiller
Main Eventer
WFWF. Go see about it.
Joined on: Mar 17, 2012 16:49:19 GMT -5
Posts: 1,868
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Post by Devilkiller on Jun 9, 2013 19:24:50 GMT -5
Right?? Haha
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Post by bad guy™ on Jun 9, 2013 19:44:51 GMT -5
Surprisingly, the summer has been a strikingly dead time over the years. Logically you should be completely right. More time away from classes (as everyone here except Thunder, Mike and Dale are high school or university students) should mean more writing. But alas, it is more free time to hang with friends, go in vacation, etcetera. The time with the most activity is actually when university and things like that let in up until right after the holidays then we get slow again. It is just how it has always worked. When new members sign up for WF as a distraction from school they show up here once in a while which is how I for one got here.
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Post by Rated R on Jun 11, 2013 5:33:12 GMT -5
In terms of people we definitely need to go out and do some advertising and some recruiting. Our roster right now is slim and when half of those people don't even bother showing up in the first place it's not a good look for the fed and it does little to motivate everyone else. I get Shawn's reluctance to advertise for people who might now stick around but I also agree that if we can bring in people for a few shows then we can try to work on getting them to stick around. We need to cast a wide net and bring in as many people as possible not only to make the place look active to attract other guys but also because if we can get one in every three people to stick around and become a reliable, consistent and valued member of the board then it'll be all worth it. I mean look at it this way, if we all go out and speak to people we know are interested in either fedding or just writing in general then we should be able to bring in one or two guys each. That quickly builds up. I mean in the time that I've written this post I've convinced Ace to join up and I know for a fact that he's a consistent and very good fedder, so it's entirely possible to do.
When it comes to feedback I'm not going to argue that I haven't been pulling my weight and neither has anyone else on the board (besides Mike, who seems to have been giving out some good feedback in the past few shows). It's something I personally intend to work on but it's very difficult to get motivated to read peoples work when only a handful are turning up. It's the same with the WFWF.com and predictions stuff, because if nobody is interested in it being there then why should I be putting in the work to write those pieces up? I don't mind doing it if they're getting read and if people are participating them but that once again comes down to having a reliable roster that are actually showing up on a consistent basis.
I think we need to focus on building up the roster for the time being and then making sure that everyone we have has a reason to keep showing up. I intend to get everybody into their own angles so that they've got something to build up and work towards going forwards so if everybody can go out and try to promote the fed then that would definitely be a step in the right direction. I'm saying go out and promote to not only your fedding friends but also to your friends who enjoy wrestling and definitely those who just enjoy writing because we've got a chance here to reach out to a much wider range of fedders. We're a rp'ing fed so people don't actually have to be a current wrestling fan, they just need to love writing and we can work on the wrestling side of thing with them as we go along.
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Post by veronicaaaahhhh on Jun 11, 2013 6:58:15 GMT -5
Sorry for not having posted much in the last week. Work's been incredibly hectic and writer's block seems to have kicked me in the head. Anyways, I'll get on topic. The last few shows have been pretty dry and a lot of that comes from people no-showing. I'll admit, I can slack off and not write up until the last minute and pray for an extension. I think this comes from sometimes not knowing what to rp, regardless of what storyline my character is in and I wouldn't be surprised if a couple other writers feel the same way towards their own work. What's always set the WFWF from most other feds is that this is a very writer oriented e-fed. We're at out best when our writers are putting up their best efforts and not just that, but this place has cultivated a good number of aspiring writers. Ideally, we'd be putting out novels for every rp and we'd get nothing but incredible feedback. I think there should be a word limit to Revolution RP's- that way, the writing can be faster, we could run through shows a little faster and we'd only put out the big, novel-esque stuff for ppvs. Thats one of the things that should be estabslished, I think it would make writing a lot easier on people.
Another thing we could use is a welcome thread of sorts. Kind of take the rules/roster page and give it a good overhaul on main, just so we show that were really doing business here. I can help with writing it.
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Post by Deep Figure Value on Jun 11, 2013 9:55:51 GMT -5
So, I think I've beat this very horse to death, but just for old time's sake, here's an approach that just might entice someone new, or someone like me back into the game.
On the owner's end:
- CLEAN UP ANY AND ALL PAGES THAT A NEW PLAYER MIGHT BE DRAWN TO WHEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THIS PLACE IS ALL ABOUT. You've got a guidebook that is five years old written by a guy who hasn't made a post on the entire forum in two years. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me, any previous owners who have chosen to step away from the game shouldn't have their name anywhere near any sort of informational threads, lest they be mistakenly associated with the fed. Suppose someone had a question regarding the rules, and PM'd Alex about it, and never got a response - think they'll wind up signing on? I don't. Now, more than ever, is your golden opportunity to really shake things up. You've got, what? Four active writers? Turn this thing on its head and make it your own, tradition be damned. It's pretty much in the toilet anyway. Why not start fresh?
- And to that end, clean out any unnecessary archival threads. Title history is fine. Hall of fame is fine. Roster is fine. Do we really need a quoted thread, full of nothing but outdated, coded profiles for a handful of people unlikely to ever show their face around these parts again? Let them be responsible for maintaining their characters.
- Set a relaunch date, or whatever, and with it, offer everyone a clean slate in regard to no-shows. It'll be a breath of fresh air, maybe entice someone who was otherwise less inclined to participate to do so, and goes along with the fresh start notion, putting everyone back on the same page.
On the writer's end:
- Commit within your limits. You know your life away from the screen better than anyone. If you can't handle writing a participation piece and a match, don't sign on for a match. If you can't handle writing a weekly/bi-weekly piece for a character that is your own creation, maybe don't sign up.
- Be willing to develop your own storylines. I'll willingly relate the entire New Epoch angle as the best on-going story I've been involved in, and the real meat of that came from endless, endless strings of messages between Kyzer, Drakz, and myself. Go back and re-read the three of us during that whole angle - that sort of overlapping, different perspectives on the same scenes didn't come out of thin air, and to that end, there were very few instances where I would feature Drakz in one of my rps and need to run anything by him, because we became so inversely familiar with one another's characters. THAT is when things really unfold - the owners were a part of it, but by and large, it was an idea that was fleshed out between Kyzer and Drakz, and eventually myself.
On everyone's end:
- Feedback. The worst thing about putting in a bunch of effort is to have it go unnoticed. This goes for rps and show pieces. The thing that soured me the most on this place, and probably led me to want to be less involved was a story that I worked on for a solid two weeks that was thrown into a show haphazardly, without being read, and when the final product got put out there, the entire show was ass-backward because of it. This goes for rps too. No one wants to write a match, segment, or rp that isn't being read, and that falls on the shoulders of every last person involved here - owners, writers, idea guys, spectators, everyone.
And yeah, more people and all that, but I feel that with some monumental changes and a smidge of advertising, that'll fix itself.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 3:10:02 GMT -5
Everything SYE said needs to be taken in mind. I know Im not the most active person on WFWF, but I try my best to show up, but SYE said it perfectly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 9:43:10 GMT -5
We could open the Developmental/House Show to increase activity. We could have a show a week or something, but have a 400/500 word limit just so we can improve and try things out. Plus, it would show improved activity on the board, which could bring in more guys. It'd be something for us to do while we wait for the results and cards.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 22:46:04 GMT -5
I can't make any promises, but I'll reach out to some of my friends and see if I can't get them to join.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 9:06:50 GMT -5
How about a mock-twitter kind of thing. Basically a thread where we can post "Tweets" in-character to progress sotrylines and such. Name@ Twitter Handle | Message. I'm talking about @you. |
Or something along the lines of that.
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Post by Dex on Aug 9, 2013 10:27:35 GMT -5
I'd like to join. Can someone explain all of this to me in pm? Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 12:54:26 GMT -5
I'd like to join. Can someone explain all of this to me in pm? Thanks A PM from myself should be sent soon. Keep checking your inbox. EDIT: PM sent. I really hope you sign up here.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 14:30:38 GMT -5
I'm a little late but I think opening the development center again could help. It would allow members to test the waters with different styles of RPin without the fear of getting a loss. It could also give a chance for new members who are still 50/50 on joining a chance to experiment in RPing.
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Post by Markw on Sept 10, 2013 15:33:31 GMT -5
I'm with Proggy and Garrett. If you included a word limit and made involvement optional then bringing back the House Shows could be really good. Would allow people to experiment with new characters or ideas and give those who get frustrated with the wait for show results/cards something to keep themselves occupied.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 15:39:58 GMT -5
I would even volunteer myself to help set up the House Shows, if needed. Considering Shawn is extremely busy and I'm guessing Trace is too, they will probably put the House Shows on the backburner. I don't have much going on school wise right now (Expect a vacation at the end of this weeks, which I'm gone for like a dozen days) so I could help out if needed be.
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