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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 10:23:51 GMT -5
You could, in theory, look at that two ways though... Was the Survivor Series buyrate low because there wasn't enough interest in Bret's return? Or Was the Survivor Series buyrate low because there wasn't enough interest in HBK as champion defending against Sid? If it was low WITH Bret's return then I can only imagine it would have been lower WITHOUT it as his return had to be generating interest. Bret's return to Raw was the highest rated Raw of 96, so I highly doubt it was to do with Bret. I think it's as much Sid's fault as it is Shawn's though. But that is only because you are half the man that Sid is and he has half the brain that you do. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 10:27:42 GMT -5
Bret's return to Raw was the highest rated Raw of 96, so I highly doubt it was to do with Bret. I think it's as much Sid's fault as it is Shawn's though. But that is only because you are half the man that Sid is and he has half the brain that you do. Too bad Sid didn't have the brains to jump off the second rope and not snap his leg in half. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 10:31:04 GMT -5
But that is only because you are half the man that Sid is and he has half the brain that you do. Too bad Sid didn't have the brains to jump off the second rope and not snap his leg in half. True. From what I understand, Sid is the only person to defeat BOTH Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart in back to back PPV main events. Sid defeated HBK at Survivor Series 1996 and then defeated Bret at In Your House the following month. The three also had an untelevised triple threat dark match in 1997 which is covered in one of my old issues of Raw magazines. It may have been one of the first triple threat matches in WWF. |
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Post by Captain McKay on Oct 8, 2013 10:34:30 GMT -5
Yeah man, I agree with you about The Patriot. I'm not sure what they were going for there other than cashing in on the whole Canada vs. USA stuff as much as they possibly could. He literally came out of nowhere and next thing we knew, he was getting a world title shot.
I feel like having HBK vs. Undertaker in the first ever Hell in a Cell main event Badd Blood was the right choice as Bret was stuck in a tag team flag match with Bulldog against Vader and Patriot. Besides, it's not like his title was on the line. Without a doubt, man. In my hypothetical scenario, I'm not exactly sure exactly what Bret should have been doing in that time unless they were trying to take the Patriot stuff more seriously. Then, when the buildup to Survivor Series happened, Shawn and Undertaker would still be fresh off of HIAC, Bret and Shawn would be brewing, and Undertaker could somehow find his way into the main event where he'd tombstone Bret, meaning Bret wouldn't have to job to Shawn on his way out. Or, if Bret had a problem with that, have Undertaker or Shawn make the pin on each other, so Bret never gets "beaten" directly and doesn't look bad (in his own eyes) on the way out. I'm actually surprised they didn't do anything along those lines. Did Undertaker even HAVE a match in Montreal? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 10:40:30 GMT -5
Yeah man, I agree with you about The Patriot. I'm not sure what they were going for there other than cashing in on the whole Canada vs. USA stuff as much as they possibly could. He literally came out of nowhere and next thing we knew, he was getting a world title shot.
I feel like having HBK vs. Undertaker in the first ever Hell in a Cell main event Badd Blood was the right choice as Bret was stuck in a tag team flag match with Bulldog against Vader and Patriot. Besides, it's not like his title was on the line. Without a doubt, man. In my hypothetical scenario, I'm not exactly sure exactly what Bret should have been doing in that time unless they were trying to take the Patriot stuff more seriously. Then, when the buildup to Survivor Series happened, Shawn and Undertaker would still be fresh off of HIAC, Bret and Shawn would be brewing, and Undertaker could somehow find his way into the main event where he'd tombstone Bret, meaning Bret wouldn't have to job to Shawn on his way out. Or, if Bret had a problem with that, have Undertaker or Shawn make the pin on each other, so Bret never gets "beaten" directly and doesn't look bad (in his own eyes) on the way out. I'm actually surprised they didn't do anything along those lines. Did Undertaker even HAVE a match in Montreal? I have honestly never thought about that but a triple threat match between Undertaker/Bret/Shawn would have been fantastic. Plus, they had been experimenting with triple threat dark matches all year only with Sid/Bret/Shawn. It would have been MUCH better with Undertaker involved especially due to him losing the title to Bret at Summerslam after HBK decked him with the chair. Undertaker never really did get a re-match either. I don't believe Undertaker was booked at all during Survivor Series in Montreal as they probably kept him off that night to get Kane over who was having his debut match against Mankind. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 10:53:12 GMT -5
Too bad Sid didn't have the brains to jump off the second rope and not snap his leg in half. True. From what I understand, Sid is the only person to defeat BOTH Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart in back to back PPV main events. Sid defeated HBK at Survivor Series 1996 and then defeated Bret at In Your House the following month. The three also had an untelevised triple threat dark match in 1997 which is covered in one of my old issues of Raw magazines. It may have been one of the first triple threat matches in WWF. Sid's one of those guys that I like, but only because he's such an idiot. I still can't believe that Vince put the title on Sid TWICE. But didn't think Luger was worth it in 93. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 11:23:07 GMT -5
True. From what I understand, Sid is the only person to defeat BOTH Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart in back to back PPV main events. Sid defeated HBK at Survivor Series 1996 and then defeated Bret at In Your House the following month. The three also had an untelevised triple threat dark match in 1997 which is covered in one of my old issues of Raw magazines. It may have been one of the first triple threat matches in WWF. Sid's one of those guys that I like, but only because he's such an idiot. I still can't believe that Vince put the title on Sid TWICE. But didn't think Luger was worth it in 93. Not to mention Sid has main evented TWO Wrestlemanias man. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 11:35:14 GMT -5
Sid's one of those guys that I like, but only because he's such an idiot. I still can't believe that Vince put the title on Sid TWICE. But didn't think Luger was worth it in 93. Not to mention Sid has main evented TWO Wrestlemanias man. It's weird how sometimes talent has absolutely nothing to do with success, or how lack of talent can directly lead to it in the world of wrestling. |
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Post by cordless2016 on Oct 8, 2013 12:36:53 GMT -5
Not to mention Sid has main evented TWO Wrestlemanias man. It's weird how sometimes talent has absolutely nothing to do with success, or how lack of talent can directly lead to it in the world of wrestling. While his in-ring skills weren't the best, Sid played his "Sycho Sid" character perfectly. The fans went nuts for the guy in '96 before going heel and even as a heel was getting cheered over Shawn. His great physique helped sell how dangerous his character was as well. I don't mind that he main evented two WMs because the guy was a great character. That and I blame Hogan and Vince for the terrible WM8 main event more than Sid. Rumor has it that because he was about to leave and film a movie, Hogan didn't want to take any big bumps (not that he took them to begin with). Thus why we had about 10 minutes of submission holds to kill time. The DQ finish didn't help things either. |
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Post by Glorydaysofwrestling on Oct 8, 2013 12:53:15 GMT -5
Great thread. I'm always disappointed that they never had a huge PPV main event with Savage and Hitman. What were they thinking! ?!??! That would have been a dream match. Savage could still go, but Vince was an idiot and kept him at the commentary table.
Such missed opportunities. However if Diesel never got the title...who knows NWO may never have existed and the wholw course of wrestling would have changed.
Bret should have been given the respect he deserved from 92-96. Ao many huge and classic matches were missed out on.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 12:55:31 GMT -5
It's weird how sometimes talent has absolutely nothing to do with success, or how lack of talent can directly lead to it in the world of wrestling. While his in-ring skills weren't the best, Sid played his "Sycho Sid" character perfectly. The fans went nuts for the guy in '96 before going heel and even as a heel was getting cheered over Shawn. His great physique helped sell how dangerous his character was as well. I don't mind that he main evented two WMs because the guy was a great character. That and I blame Hogan and Vince for the terrible WM8 main event more than Sid. Rumor has it that because he was about to leave and film a movie, Hogan didn't want to take any big bumps (not that he took them to begin with). Thus why we had about 10 minutes of submission holds to kill time. The DQ finish didn't help things either. Sid's character was ok, but I couldn't really tell you that he ever had an entertaining match that wasn't against Bret Hart (who could wrestle a mannequin and put on a great match). I know that he was popular, but he'll always be one of the worst WWE champions, and generally one of the worst wrestlers of all time. I don't think it would be entirely unfair to label him as wrestlecrap. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 12:57:14 GMT -5
Great thread. I'm always disappointed that they never had a huge PPV main event with Savage and Hitman. What were they thinking! ?!??! That would have been a dream match. Savage could still go, but Vince was an idiot and kept him at the commentary table. Such missed opportunities. However if Diesel never got the title...who knows NWO may never have existed and the wholw course of wrestling would have changed. Bret should have been given the respect he deserved from 92-96. Ao many huge and classic matches were missed out on. Savage and Bret did get to have a match for the WWF title in Japan: But you're right that it's a shame they didn't get a big PPV match. |
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Post by koreygunz on Oct 8, 2013 16:10:34 GMT -5
^ Goes to show you how professional Savage was and he would have been more than happy to put over Bret at WM9. Would have gone a long way in putting Bret over at the time IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 16:53:23 GMT -5
^ Goes to show you how professional Savage was and he would have been more than happy to put over Bret at WM9. Would have gone a long way in putting Bret over at the time IMO. In Bret's book he talks at length about how they both begged Vince to let them run a program together. |
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Post by mikey1974 on Oct 8, 2013 18:13:37 GMT -5
^ Goes to show you how professional Savage was and he would have been more than happy to put over Bret at WM9. Would have gone a long way in putting Bret over at the time IMO. In Bret's book he talks at length about how they both begged Vince to let them run a program together. it's funny. I remember in the book,when they finally had their match in Japan, Lanza was backstage and told them Vince wanted a quick finishing match. Hart said Savage was devastated, so he made the decision to ignore the office and they went out and had that great match together. after they got back, Lanza was waiting and told them "Great job guys!" , to which Savage told him to shove it. shows you the mentality of Vince and the office towards Savage in 1993-1994, not even wanting him to put in the effort to have a great match,which he was still capable of for years afterward. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 20:48:18 GMT -5
I'm a sucker for the Sycho Sid gimmick I must admit. However, I can also admit he totally sucked in the ring.
Also, add me to the party who wishes Bret and Savage had a high profile match.
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Post by Brad on Oct 8, 2013 20:51:57 GMT -5
^ Goes to show you how professional Savage was and he would have been more than happy to put over Bret at WM9. Would have gone a long way in putting Bret over at the time IMO. It's really a shame that never happened |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 21:08:37 GMT -5
You could, in theory, look at that two ways though... Was the Survivor Series buyrate low because there wasn't enough interest in Bret's return? Or Was the Survivor Series buyrate low because there wasn't enough interest in HBK as champion defending against Sid? If it was low WITH Bret's return then I can only imagine it would have been lower WITHOUT it as his return had to be generating interest. Bret's return to Raw was the highest rated Raw of 96, so I highly doubt it was to do with Bret. I think it's as much Sid's fault as it is Shawn's though. how can you highly doubt it was to do with Bret AF?people didn't buy the PPV to see his supposedly highly anticipated return match against the guy that had been badmouthing him.it was a general lack of interest in WWFs product at the time because of the smoldering hot nWo......and even Bret harts return couldn't change that so he is unfortunately partly to blame.just like HBK,Austin,UT,Foley & Sid..ironic because this was the PPV that Vince turned the corner at IMO. also doesn't matter what we think lads......its what Vince thought that mattered.he thought the return of Bret would carry this PPV(and solve all his problems straight away)-it didn't and I feel he was blamed(unjustly) it was a night of shocks for Vince.the buyrate and mixed reaction to Bret and HBK was said to have utterly stunned him. |
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Post by Johnny Wrestling on Oct 8, 2013 21:10:15 GMT -5
They definitely did drop the ball with him on the way he was booked, but IMO, WCW's job was even worse. He was what the people wanted to see, he was a big star already and was in a big controversy scandal coming up from the WWF. They could've capitalized on it, yet they ruined his debut by making him a special enforcer which only contributed to ruin what could've been WCW's biggest main event on the whole Monday Night Wars.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 21:14:38 GMT -5
You could, in theory, look at that two ways though... Was the Survivor Series buyrate low because there wasn't enough interest in Bret's return? Or Was the Survivor Series buyrate low because there wasn't enough interest in HBK as champion defending against Sid? If it was low WITH Bret's return then I can only imagine it would have been lower WITHOUT it as his return had to be generating interest. IMO it was both Bash(as I go into in greater detail above)but hell yes without the Hitman coming back?it would have been another Summerslam 1996. |
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