sourcehill
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Post by sourcehill on Apr 28, 2014 12:07:13 GMT -5
Agreed 100%.
Does Mattel have some good scans? Yes.
Was Jakk's paint applications WAY more consistant? YES.
And it's not always about lips being painted either. The face paint apps in general look cheap and as collectors we should be demanding more for as much as we pay for these.
When I first got into Elite I was told by a collector "they never use the same parts twice!" and I was hooked. 15 series later all I see is reused parts. I'm just not getting why there isn't a budget for better face paint apps.
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Post by punksnotdead on Apr 28, 2014 12:08:26 GMT -5
I think Jakks did an awesome job with the scans, no doubt honestly. If you look at CS Ric Flair and that R3 Jeff Hardy, and definitely their CS Diesel/Nash scan, I mean spot on. I honestly think Jakks did an awesome job with a ton of their paint detail too if you look at guys like Ultimate Warrior and Shawn Michaels. Had Jakks done any kind of scale with their figures, I think there would be a much smaller divide in the Jakks vs Mattel battle. I do agree the balloon features are overwhelming, but that is more so in retrospect now that we've seen what the figures can be with Mattel.
Jakks is a smaller company than Mattel, and they didn't have the budget to give us what Mattel has provided. However, they both have their strengths and weaknesses imo. Scans are really important to me on figures and I think Mattel could benefit from improving in that department. I mean some of the Divas in particular are horrendous. I look at Kevin Nash/Diesel from Mattel though and it's not great, and it's likely not something we will get another shot at. So I think that's a specific comparison where Jakks did a way better job with a guy than Mattel.
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sourcehill
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Post by sourcehill on Apr 28, 2014 12:08:57 GMT -5
Also, anyone who says that Jakks heads are all way too big to work with Mattel has never actually tried. It's 50/50 but there are a ton of Jakks sculpts that look wonderful on an Elite body.
My current favorite is the smiling Jakks Edge head on Elite 8. EPIC.
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Post by PJ on Apr 28, 2014 12:11:32 GMT -5
My original message said nothing about scale. It's obvious that Mattel is leeps and bounds better as far as actually looking like a human body, etc. This was purely about headsculps and I'm sick of paying $20 for an elite that doesn't look like the wrestler. The fact that Mattel hasn't put out one Daniel Bryan that looks anything like him, it's mind blowing. Same with Ziggler, HHH, Punk, Rhodes, JBL, etc... I couldn't disagree with you anymore about Triple H scan or Rhodes. Mattel hasn't released a bad scan for Triple H yet. Every scan was spot on site the paint applications on a couple could have been better, but if you stripped the paint off and just showed an unpainted head you could tell without a shadow of doubt it is Triple H. So the scans are there. And all 3 or 4 Mattel's Cody scans were all 100x better than the Jakks Cody scan. The DM 3 Triple H scan is perfect. once the fixed the hairline so it didn't look like a toupee the B1 Triple H scan is d@mn near perfect. And the last two modern long haired scans were perfect.
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sourcehill
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Post by sourcehill on Apr 28, 2014 12:15:56 GMT -5
We will agree to disagree on Cody Rhodes scans. The closest Mattel has gotten was the mustache scan. All of the Jakks scans at least LOOK like him. I don't think either company has a great scan for him.
And the DM HHH scan is meh IMO.
Have you actually seen the bearded Jakks sculpts for HHH?
I think the problem most people are having is that haven't seen a Jakks head on a Mattel body. It's hard to tell when you're looking at the head on those ridiculous Jakks bodies.
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Post by PJ on Apr 28, 2014 12:28:16 GMT -5
I was the first one to put the R3 head om a Mattel body. I had gotten the B1 Triple H the week before Christmas in 09 when my TRU put the Mattel out early. And the skin tones don't match up. I had to mix Apple Barrel's red, carmel candy and medium blush numerous times before I got a color to repaint the head that matched the Mattel body... Let's see if these work... Here are the basic and Elites I made after repainting the head. As for Bryan only the latest scan (full beard) doesn't look anything like him. But the first 2 or 3(?) the release of him very much looked like him. But the point is they are all made by Gentle Giant Studios and most are sculpted by the same sculptures. So scan/sculpt wise they should all have the same degree of likenesses and flaws. Where Jakks was better than Mattel is in the paint applications. And even then both companies have had their share of hits and misses. and with Jakks while there were some great scans they were ruined by being to large for the RA bodies. Here's a few that come to mind rught off the bat... BoWCW Jericho BOwCW Benoit Hall Backlund Graham Storm All great scans ruined by their scale.
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Post by ricflair4ever on Apr 28, 2014 12:31:05 GMT -5
Ive always said jakks two strongest points in comparison to mattel ,has been depth of the roster and head sculpts. Mattel has the win in the scale and overall detail department. But ,by and large, jakks had the more detailed and accurate face sculpts. Mattel has had some winners ,dont get me wrong, just as jakks had some clunkers, so i just think its still a wash on who the better company in general is. I like them both
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Post by poindizzle on Apr 28, 2014 13:28:54 GMT -5
We can't really bring price into this as a factor, all action figures across the board have shot up with six inch scale going from 10-14 dollars in 2010 to 18-23 dollars in 2014. That's all toy lines.
I will agree that I liked certain little details on Jakks figures better, and I still have and love my Ruthless collection, but the stylized look works like a charms for Mattel. I agree that some scams would pop a little better with highlights in the hair and a deeper color selection. I also think that jeans would look like jeans instead of crayola blue tights with a wash like Jakks.
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kuleo16
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Post by kuleo16 on Apr 28, 2014 13:36:40 GMT -5
I agree with the original poster in that jakks has way better headscans than mattel. Were not talking about the body or accessories or scale. I find myself replacing most of mattels head with jakks for fixups and customs. Overall if you want a more realistic face jakks has it comapare to mattels cartooney look. Just compare any of triple h's head scan between the company.
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vashts
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Post by vashts on Apr 28, 2014 13:42:52 GMT -5
We can't really bring price into this as a factor, all action figures across the board have shot up with six inch scale going from 10-14 dollars in 2010 to 18-23 dollars in 2014. That's all toy lines. I will agree that I liked certain little details on Jakks figures better, and I still have and love my Ruthless collection, but the stylized look works like a charms for Mattel. I agree that some scams would pop a little better with highlights in the hair and a deeper color selection. I also think that jeans would look like jeans instead of crayola blue tights with a wash like Jakks. When I see the prices increase soo astronomically, I think is corporations being corporations. The day will come soon where, the 3D printing will change everything. We saw the wars with movies and mp3's. Probably similar issues are coming. The way it seems many of these corporations seem to deal with these issues is increasing prices and slap their own fan base in the face. Hasbro has increased their Legends line to 20 bucks. While retailers already charge 20-30 for them, I could see them further increasing it and passing those costs to the consumers. I am not an economist by any means, but figures less than 5 years ago(Legends) cost 10 bucks, now have more than doubled in price at retail. Mattel and Hasbro is simply doing what the music.movie studios did, and it backfired. They should become more consumer friendly, not the opposite. I know it is frowned upon talking about bootlegs, soon to be 3D printed figures...but it is reality. Okay Jakks had way better head scans. Comparing Jakks Taker with Mattel, Jakks wins every time. Even the Ultimate Warrior sculpts, Jakks faces were mind blowing. Lashley was great. I cannot understand why Mattel is so bad? They are a bigger company and should have better methods. Only issue with Jakks, to many Yelling faces. BTW, why can't Mattel include interchangeable heads? The no emotion Warrior needs it.
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Post by knupmc on Apr 28, 2014 13:50:38 GMT -5
I think Mattel does a great job with majority of figs. But nailing a headscan is no different than a day of life; sometimes they're good, sometimes they're bad
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Post by PJ on Apr 28, 2014 14:34:04 GMT -5
I agree with the original poster in that jakks has way better headscans than mattel. Were not talking about the body or accessories or scale. I find myself replacing most of mattels head with jakks for fixups and customs. Overall if you want a more realistic face jakks has it comapare to mattels cartooney look. Just compare any of triple h's head scan between the company. Again it is the same company and most of the same sculptors that both conpanies use. They both use Gentle Giant Studios to scan the wrestlers and both companies hire the same sculptors to make them. We had a member here who showed us the work she did for both companies until they made her remove the pics. So the scans and scupts should have the same style and flaws to them because it is the same people producing them. It's the paint applications that throw a figure off. And as I stated before both companies have hits and misses on paint applications and head scaling. Mattel has had more issues with their paint pallet where Jakks has had more issues with head scaling especially when they started DA, because the DA head scale is larger than the RA scale. Yet many heads were put on RA bodies that were meant for DA's.
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Post by Chip on Apr 28, 2014 14:45:39 GMT -5
Mattel has quite a number of amazing headsculpts. But there is a fair share of stinkers, too.
Jakks had mostly amazing headsculpts with only a few stinkers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 15:48:05 GMT -5
Personally, you can't beat Mattel's accuracy on height and body builds. That makes up for the headscans to me.
And yes, a few of Mattel's headscans really suck. But some are pinpoint. But they nail the bodies and attires and that's enough for this guy!
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sourcehill
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Post by sourcehill on Apr 28, 2014 15:52:35 GMT -5
If the bodies were wrong, I would be complaining about them. I'm not. Mattel is amazing with scale, etc.
I'm just really surprised that a lot of you guys are okay with 'good enough'. If I was okay with 'good enough' I'd be a basic collector. For a $20 figure I expect a lot more. I don't think 'Hey, they painted the pants so I don't care that the face looks terrible'. It shouldn't be like that. If it's not going to be like that, Mattel should stop the 'collector' line.
Someone should even compare the paint jobs from the early Mattel stuff from the new stuff. They got lazy, complacent and I know I've said it a bunch, it's taking the fun out of collecting when the figure doesn't even look like the guy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 16:08:47 GMT -5
If the bodies were wrong, I would be complaining about them. I'm not. Mattel is amazing with scale, etc. I'm just really surprised that a lot of you guys are okay with 'good enough'. If I was okay with 'good enough' I'd be a basic collector. For a $20 figure I expect a lot more. I don't think 'Hey, they painted the pants so I don't care that the face looks terrible'. It shouldn't be like that. If it's not going to be like that, Mattel should stop the 'collector' line. Someone should even compare the paint jobs from the early Mattel stuff from the new stuff. They got lazy, complacent and I know I've said it a bunch, it's taking the fun out of collecting when the figure doesn't even look like the guy. Man....I think you may be the only one on the "The faces are terrible" boat They're not THAT bad. No one is making you spend anything on an elite. That's all in your choosing. If you don't like the scan, save your money. But if you buy it, you'll just have to roll with it like the rest of us
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guster
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Post by guster on Apr 28, 2014 16:23:24 GMT -5
We can't really bring price into this as a factor, all action figures across the board have shot up with six inch scale going from 10-14 dollars in 2010 to 18-23 dollars in 2014. That's all toy lines. I will agree that I liked certain little details on Jakks figures better, and I still have and love my Ruthless collection, but the stylized look works like a charms for Mattel. I agree that some scams would pop a little better with highlights in the hair and a deeper color selection. I also think that jeans would look like jeans instead of crayola blue tights with a wash like Jakks. When I see the prices increase soo astronomically, I think is corporations being corporations. The day will come soon where, the 3D printing will change everything. We saw the wars with movies and mp3's. Probably similar issues are coming. The way it seems many of these corporations seem to deal with these issues is increasing prices and slap their own fan base in the face. Hasbro has increased their Legends line to 20 bucks. While retailers already charge 20-30 for them, I could see them further increasing it and passing those costs to the consumers. I am not an economist by any means, but figures less than 5 years ago(Legends) cost 10 bucks, now have more than doubled in price at retail. Mattel and Hasbro is simply doing what the music.movie studios did, and it backfired. They should become more consumer friendly, not the opposite. I know it is frowned upon talking about bootlegs, soon to be 3D printed figures...but it is reality. Okay Jakks had way better head scans. Comparing Jakks Taker with Mattel, Jakks wins every time. Even the Ultimate Warrior sculpts, Jakks faces were mind blowing. Lashley was great. I cannot understand why Mattel is so bad? They are a bigger company and should have better methods. Only issue with Jakks, to many Yelling faces. BTW, why can't Mattel include interchangeable heads? The no emotion Warrior needs it. Comparing movies and the record industry to action figures is completely unfair. Mass-producing an action figure is way more expensive then producing an individual DVD or CD. We're talking dollars to cents. The average CD cost about .08 to .25 to produce. All of the cost is on the front end e.i. paying the artists/actors not the actual production of said media. Also, have you seen a 3D printer final output products? They're a LONG ways away before you could produce something similar to a consumer action figure. They can prototype cool things, but that's where it ends right now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 16:59:02 GMT -5
I find these comments funny, because Jakks and Mattel used the same company (Gentle Giant Studios) and sometimes even the same sculpters for their figures. Like anything else some look better than others for both companies. sadly, the mattel crush is one that they dropped the ball on IMO...I want an evil crush incredibly bad, but now -- I'd be worried that it'd look as terrible as the demolition one seems to be from the proto picture I love the Jakks Demo & Kona Crush
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 21:35:28 GMT -5
This is a brilliant thread, every post has contributed strong points and opinions.I Will say this, Mattel has vastly improved with the scan issue in recent years. They flat out sucked in the early years though. And as far as Jakks, they were incredible in the the Actual real scan era, but they regressed in later years and began using the same heads over and over. I also think they quit using real scan for the last few efforts. But getting back to Mattel, the main issue is the solid unblended paint, the smoothness in faces, and lack of real scan technology.
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Post by CrossRhodes on Apr 29, 2014 6:08:04 GMT -5
I think it's fair to say that both Mattel and Jakks had and have hits & misses but that's pretty much life huh?
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