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Post by POOR-ly Cuyler on May 2, 2017 22:56:00 GMT -5
People unwillingness to let Batman change or grow is why were stuck with "My parents died, boo hoo, I dont use guns." And a new reboot every 5-6 years... Some might say it's an unwillingness to let him "grow" or change...while others might say it's nice to have that rock or that principle that doesn't change. I understand. I just try and look at each movie in a vacuum unless its a sequel or trilogy. I feel like if they didnt want to insult our intellignece they wouldnt include the parents death/falling into a cave scenes every movie. Hes been around for over 3/4 of a century. We get it. While I wouldve enjoyed Dawn of Justice a bit more if it stayed more true to TDKR, I liked it for what it was. Its also to the point where were not dealing with just humans now. Forever in films Batman dealt with mutants and other smart humans with money, means, and/or abilities. Now hes dealing with Superman/Krytonians, Wonder Woman, etc. Also in Suicide Squad they went up against Enchantress who is depicted as something from another dimension. Basically this Batman has seen some s*** and is over it. Parents been gone, Robin been gone, and you might say hes "a bit gone" from his old ways.
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Post by punksnotdead on May 3, 2017 9:33:17 GMT -5
Some might say it's an unwillingness to let him "grow" or change...while others might say it's nice to have that rock or that principle that doesn't change. I understand. I just try and look at each movie in a vacuum unless its a sequel or trilogy. I feel like if they didnt want to insult our intellignece they wouldnt include the parents death/falling into a cave scenes every movie. Hes been around for over 3/4 of a century. We get it. While I wouldve enjoyed Dawn of Justice a bit more if it stayed more true to TDKR, I liked it for what it was. Its also to the point where were not dealing with just humans now. Forever in films Batman dealt with mutants and other smart humans with money, means, and/or abilities. Now hes dealing with Superman/Krytonians, Wonder Woman, etc. Also in Suicide Squad they went up against Enchantress who is depicted as something from another dimension. Basically this Batman has seen some s*** and is over it. Parents been gone, Robin been gone, and you might say hes "a bit gone" from his old ways. Right... but in the Dark Knight Returns, after 25 years of fighting, he still doesn't kill the Joker. That's still the line he won't cross, and that's the core of his motivation. He doesn't kill the Joker because that proves the Joker's point and the Joker wins. Batman always beats the Joker, but his internal struggle to not kill him is what makes those two so compelling. If Batman crosses that line, if he puts an end to the games, then the Joker proves the point that Batman is exactly like the Joker. That's a point Bruce can't ever let come to fruition because that's the day he becomes more criminal than hero. If you want to see a vigilante fire guns at bad guys, that's called the Punisher. You don't get to strip away Batman's fundamental values and then get to call him Batman. Snyder/Goyer did the exact same thing with Superman, but I have less of an issue with Superman doing it because we've seen Superman cross that line when the lives of millions were weighed against the life of one. Zod was a world ender. So that's where your commentary on alternate dimensions, aliens, etc. comes into play. I'd argue most people don't want that out of Batman. They want a detective story with a few main rogues who challenge his intellect, composure, and physical limits. BvS is an awful film. I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make on showing Bruce's parents die. It seems like you're being critical of that scene still happening, but you still enjoyed BvS with that exact scene? Not only that, but his childhood was tied into the main conflict of the story. MARRTTHHHAA!!!! From a psychological standpoint, Batman will never forget the day his parents were murdered, nor would you if that happened in real life. That continues to drive him. That moment of knowing what is truly evil in this world is what made him put on that cape. I by no means think it's a requirement of every Batman film, but the idea he's still carrying that around with him is not only plausible, it's incredibly likely. What Batman movie are you looking at in a vacuum? Everything has gotten a sequel. We saw 4 Batman movies in the same universe in the 90s. We saw a trilogy from Nolan. Now we're getting Affleck in this shared universe that could be 13 movies in depth for him. You say you want Batman to grow but it honestly just sounds like you want Batman to be John Wick. It's almost ironic you think someone is trying to undermine your intelligence, but you also want Batman to resort to the lowest form of psychological response in history. He's better than that, and you should expect more from him, and we should all expect more from WB because they keep making garbage movies despite these great actors and amazing characters at their disposal.
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winxclubflora
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Feb 28, 2017 6:47:55 GMT -5
Posts: 383
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Post by winxclubflora on May 7, 2017 23:27:54 GMT -5
You know why comic book writers never really kill off their heroes and villains? Because money, that's why, no matter if it's Marvel or DC! Green Goblin died in 1973, two decades later he was alive and well. Aunt May died in Amazing Spider-Man 400, she came back a few issues later. Doc Ock had cancer, transformed himself into Peter's body and then died after the "Superior Spider-Man" arc was done. Is he still dead? Nope. Rhyno was killed off in 2010, he returned in the new Clone Saga storyline. Now to DC: Arnold Wesker died prior to the New52 reboot. He is alive and well in the new Rebirth title. Joker died countless times and still made appearances in the 50's, 60's, 70's and so on. Dr. Death, Batman's first ever opponent, died back in 1939 and even he was revived on one or two occasions! Jason Todd died in 1988....yet the writers found a way to have him appear as Red Hood. Death in comics is very seldom permanent, especially when it comes to the main characters (exceptions are the Wayne's, Uncle Ben, Gwen Stacy...). If Batman killed every criminal in the comics, which would be the most logical thing to do, there wouldn't be any more issues of The Caped Crusader! You can only create so many characters before you are running out of ideas and have to get back to the known villains. So the writers created the "No-Killing-Rule" as an in-universe explanation. The movies, however, do not have this kind of problem: You have one or maybe two movies with the same villain, then you can proceed to finish him and move onto the next one and do the same all over again. Of course, there are different motivations for the villains and not all of them deserve death. Poison Ivy and the aforementioned Red Hood actually have good intentions, they just use different (maybe amoral) methods to accomplish their goals. The former demands more respect for nature (always something humans should have), the latter wants revenge for almost killing him, which is understandable. Penguin, Black Mask and Bane are different, though: They don't have any good intentions and just want to rule the World/Gotham City and murder civilians to reach that goal. Then there are rapists and killers like Mad Hatter, Joker and Scarecrow, who do what they do just for fun and games. Those kind of villains DO deserve to die! Of course, they will be alive in the comics for as long as DC can milk the cash cow that is their comic universe. Should a character not be profitable anymore, then he/she will die and return maybe a decade later. But movies are not bound to that rule. After all, it is highly unlikely that there will be dozens of movies set in the same universe. So the producers can go the logical way and kill off the baddie after the 1st/2nd or 3rd movie apperance. It happened in the Spidey flicks from Sam Raimi, it happened in Burton's two Batman movies and it will continue to happen, because villains are mostly a "one and done" case, except for a few occasions.
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Post by Word™ on May 9, 2017 4:02:10 GMT -5
Someone approached me tonight and said that his name was merely Ducard but that he spoke for someone greatly feared by the criminal underworld..
I was simply carrying my groceries to the car.. I don't know what's going on..
Should I be concerned?
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Post by punksnotdead on May 9, 2017 8:36:03 GMT -5
Someone approached me tonight and said that his name was merely Ducard but that he spoke for someone greatly feared by the criminal underworld.. I was simply carrying my groceries to the car.. I don't know what's going on.. Should I be concerned? It was your perfect opportunity to respond with: "I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom I can tell you I don't have money, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you walk away now that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you, but if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you and I will kill you."
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Post by Word™ on May 10, 2017 23:56:42 GMT -5
. . . . . . . . Bane?
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Post by marino13 on May 11, 2017 16:25:49 GMT -5
I guess Diane Lane has stated that Justice League is not better than Marvel's Avengers...
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Post by IRS on May 11, 2017 16:30:40 GMT -5
If you listen close enough, you can hear Batman angrily yelling "MARTHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"
As much as I'd love for DC to have as awesome of a thing going on with their movies as Marvel, it's comical at this point to see how bad they're botching things - to the point where the people in the film have no faith in it.
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Post by Nivro™ on May 11, 2017 17:33:20 GMT -5
What is "good" and what is "bad" is all a matter of opinion and there is no right or wrong answer. Im a big DC fans. Outside of Captain America, Deadpool and X-Men movies, I dont find any of the other Marvel movies very entertaining. That doesnt mean they're bad. They just dont click with me. The Expendables movies are some of the most enjoyable movies Ive ever watched, yet "movie experts" trash them non stop. I enjoyed Man of Steel, Dawn of Justice and Suicide Squad...if someone else doesnt enjoy them thats fine. It doesnt make them bad movies.
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Post by Word™ on May 12, 2017 0:48:11 GMT -5
I guess Diane Lane has stated that Justice League is not better than Marvel's Avengers... Man, if Justice League bombs.. That's a wrap on the DCEU. I said it on here a while back, you can only fool the fans and movie goers so many times before they catch on to your tricks and stop paying you money. I've yet to find anyone that's told me they're excited for JL.. I mean not to mention this is a Justice League movie without Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter and it's currently being billed without Superman. WB went from having the best superhero franchise and films in the entire world (even when The Avengers was in theaters) to barely being able to scrap together morale from their own actors. PS. How disappointing is it that Ben Affleck is going through a mid life crisis during his stint as Batman? That's gotta be a first for the franchise.
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Post by Word™ on May 12, 2017 0:54:20 GMT -5
What is "good" and what is "bad" is all a matter of opinion and there is no right or wrong answer. Im a big DC fans. Outside of Captain America, Deadpool and X-Men movies, I dont find any of the other Marvel movies very entertaining. That doesnt mean they're bad. They just dont click with me. The Expendables movies are some of the most enjoyable movies Ive ever watched, yet "movie experts" trash them non stop. I enjoyed Man of Steel, Dawn of Justice and Suicide Squad...if someone else doesnt enjoy them thats fine. It doesnt make them bad movies. Art is definitely subjective and at the end of the day the only thing that matters is if you're a fan and if you're enjoying them.. I will have discussions about Man of Steel being good or bad.. I will have discussions about BvS being good or bad.. Because I do believe there was a solid attempt to make a good movie.. I actually think Zack Snyder cared about the material he was working with and did all he could. But I will straight up argue with someone about Suicide Squad.. I honest to God believe that is one of the worst movies I've seen in my entire life.
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Post by JokerFC on May 12, 2017 13:02:01 GMT -5
Wonder Woman tracking to open @ 65 Million......anybody wanna take bets it will be lower than that? Ive yet to meet anyone on person that gives one chocolate about Justice League or WW. This includes people who LOVE all superhero movies. I see Powerless was cancelled too.
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Post by punksnotdead on May 12, 2017 13:11:12 GMT -5
I'm going to see Wonder Woman opening weekend. I think it looks pretty good. Based on how DC movies have tracked in general though, I think it's safe to say it will be a lower opening than that projection. Consider the movies coming out around it: Alien, Baywatch, Pirates of the Caribbean and the Mummy comes out the weekend after. WW is going to be clawing for dollars. Cars 3 comes out two weeks later and that will probably be it for WW. It's a tough spot. Seems like a film that would have been better positioned for a fall release imo.
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Post by IRS on May 12, 2017 14:59:46 GMT -5
Wonder Woman tracking to open @ 65 Million......anybody wanna take bets it will be lower than that? Ive yet to meet anyone on person that gives one chocolate about Justice League or WW. This includes people who LOVE all superhero movies. I see Powerless was cancelled too. You can lump me in with those people. To be fair, I've never really been a huge WW person anyway. I think the trailers look fairly good, but so did the trailers for Suicide Squad and BvS.
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Post by Word™ on May 12, 2017 20:36:26 GMT -5
Honestly, Wonder Woman just looks boring.. The trailers are very underwhelming..
BUT.. When/if Wonder Woman under performs and doesn't get good reviews and doesn't make alot of money at the box office.. I want some of you to brace yourself for the "muh feminism" argument.
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Post by TheLastDude on May 12, 2017 22:37:56 GMT -5
I'm going to see Wonder Woman opening weekend. I think it looks pretty good. Based on how DC movies have tracked in general though, I think it's safe to say it will be a lower opening than that projection. Consider the movies coming out around it: Alien, Baywatch, Pirates of the Caribbean and the Mummy comes out the weekend after. WW is going to be clawing for dollars. Cars 3 comes out two weeks later and that will probably be it for WW. It's a tough spot. Seems like a film that would have been better positioned for a fall release imo. It almost seems like they placed it there just to see it fail. I know that's ridiculous, because why the hell would you sink millions of dollars into a film and hamstring it so it doesn't perform well, but who thought it was a good idea to put this movie up against movies that are guaranteed to make bank like POTC, Cars, and Alien? Even word of mouth for Baywatch has been good so far too. Wonder Woman tracking to open @ 65 Million......anybody wanna take bets it will be lower than that? Ive yet to meet anyone on person that gives one chocolate about Justice League or WW. This includes people who LOVE all superhero movies. I see Powerless was cancelled too. You can lump me in with those people. To be fair, I've never really been a huge WW person anyway. I think the trailers look fairly good, but so did the trailers for Suicide Squad and BvS. I remember being so pumped when I saw the first trailer for SS too...shame....
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Post by johnnyb on May 13, 2017 8:32:20 GMT -5
I would take any bet anyone offered that Wonder Woman opens above $65M. DC movies open huge. It's their staying power that has struggled.
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Post by IRS on May 13, 2017 13:57:08 GMT -5
I would take any bet anyone offered that Wonder Woman opens above $65M. DC movies open huge. It's their staying power that has struggled. They've also typically been centered around huge characters, though. Obviously people will shell out money for Joker, Batman, Superman, and even Harley. This is honestly a pretty big test for them.
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Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 21:52:00 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2017 16:07:30 GMT -5
$72m. That is what WW opens with. Guarantee it. It will be just enough to make the DC guys to believe in this franchise, so they make WW2 and it bombs completely and they forget all about WW for a decade or so.
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Post by johnnyb on May 13, 2017 18:34:32 GMT -5
$72m. That is what WW opens with. Guarantee it. It will be just enough to make the DC guys to believe in this franchise, so they make WW2 and it bombs completely and they forget all about WW for a decade or so. I'll take the over. This is going to be a huge movie.
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