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Post by King Richius on Jun 16, 2019 10:04:00 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry too much. Just like Wade, Bosh, Irving, and Love before him, I expect that AD's numbers will drop as he defers to the great one who "makes all the players around him better", which I say in quotes because history says otherwise. What you gassin about? LeBron has carried every team he’s been on. None of those teams win anything without him. The evidence is there. That’s why those teams have sucked after he leaves them. Also, that’s why they’ve sucked when he’s forced to sit due to injury. He wouldn't have to if he actually made players around him better. Look at two of his championship winning seasons. One came when Ray Allen came through in the clutch with a last minute three - a case of LeBron deferring to another player. Another came when Kyrie took matters into his own hands and LeBron let him do work, particularly in the fourth quarter. Also, lets take a look at my favorite case of a player who went from perennial all star to just another dude on the court: Kevin Love. The guy was a guaranteed 20/10 every night as a low post player. He comes to Cleveland to play with LeBron, gets turned into a spot up three shooter, and you were lucky to get 15/7 from him. He became a non-factor in most games and never carried his weight in the playoffs. People can say Love was overrated, he sucked, whatever but the truth is that playing with LeBron meant changing his game to something he wasn't as effective at. Both Wade and Bosh admitted to adjusting their games because LeBron was the focal point of the Heat. But hey, playing with LeBron makes you better. The media has said it often enough that people actually believe it despite the facts proving otherwise. In comparison, players around Magic or Bird actually had as good if not better stats while playing with them. Those two could carry a team when they needed to but they didn't have to do it very often because Magic and Bird really did make the players around them better. I'll be counting the days until there is a post game interview with LeBron after a string of losses where he starts talking about how young AD is and how he needs to learn to play for titles - in other words, defer to the King. AD is the younger, healthier, and hungrier player. He should be the focal point and the future of the Lakers. LeBron is the aging superstar who should be the one adjusting his game to AD.
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Post by sonstuds on Jun 16, 2019 10:19:55 GMT -5
If you're going to acknowledge that LeBron needs to play with all-stars to win (then gloss over that Jordan, Bird, and Magic also played with HOFers) then shouldn't it be said that for most of their careers Love, Irving, and Bosh didn't even make the playoffs until they played with LeBron?
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Post by Tim of thee on Jun 16, 2019 13:25:30 GMT -5
What you gassin about? LeBron has carried every team he’s been on. None of those teams win anything without him. The evidence is there. That’s why those teams have sucked after he leaves them. Also, that’s why they’ve sucked when he’s forced to sit due to injury. He wouldn't have to if he actually made players around him better. Look at two of his championship winning seasons. One came when Ray Allen came through in the clutch with a last minute three - a case of LeBron deferring to another player. Another came when Kyrie took matters into his own hands and LeBron let him do work, particularly in the fourth quarter. Also, lets take a look at my favorite case of a player who went from perennial all star to just another dude on the court: Kevin Love. The guy was a guaranteed 20/10 every night as a low post player. He comes to Cleveland to play with LeBron, gets turned into a spot up three shooter, and you were lucky to get 15/7 from him. He became a non-factor in most games and never carried his weight in the playoffs. People can say Love was overrated, he sucked, whatever but the truth is that playing with LeBron meant changing his game to something he wasn't as effective at. Both Wade and Bosh admitted to adjusting their games because LeBron was the focal point of the Heat. But hey, playing with LeBron makes you better. The media has said it often enough that people actually believe it despite the facts proving otherwise. In comparison, players around Magic or Bird actually had as good if not better stats while playing with them. Those two could carry a team when they needed to but they didn't have to do it very often because Magic and Bird really did make the players around them better. I'll be counting the days until there is a post game interview with LeBron after a string of losses where he starts talking about how young AD is and how he needs to learn to play for titles - in other words, defer to the King. AD is the younger, healthier, and hungrier player. He should be the focal point and the future of the Lakers. LeBron is the aging superstar who should be the one adjusting his game to AD. This lacks context. I’ll just say that the team that wins the championship is the one with all their best players playing all the games. I think the only exception to this over the last 20 years has been the Mavs. Let’s also not forget LeBron took a who’s who of players to the finals in 2007 when he was just 22. Then the super team era began.
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Post by King Richius on Jun 16, 2019 13:51:21 GMT -5
He wouldn't have to if he actually made players around him better. Look at two of his championship winning seasons. One came when Ray Allen came through in the clutch with a last minute three - a case of LeBron deferring to another player. Another came when Kyrie took matters into his own hands and LeBron let him do work, particularly in the fourth quarter. Also, lets take a look at my favorite case of a player who went from perennial all star to just another dude on the court: Kevin Love. The guy was a guaranteed 20/10 every night as a low post player. He comes to Cleveland to play with LeBron, gets turned into a spot up three shooter, and you were lucky to get 15/7 from him. He became a non-factor in most games and never carried his weight in the playoffs. People can say Love was overrated, he sucked, whatever but the truth is that playing with LeBron meant changing his game to something he wasn't as effective at. Both Wade and Bosh admitted to adjusting their games because LeBron was the focal point of the Heat. But hey, playing with LeBron makes you better. The media has said it often enough that people actually believe it despite the facts proving otherwise. In comparison, players around Magic or Bird actually had as good if not better stats while playing with them. Those two could carry a team when they needed to but they didn't have to do it very often because Magic and Bird really did make the players around them better. I'll be counting the days until there is a post game interview with LeBron after a string of losses where he starts talking about how young AD is and how he needs to learn to play for titles - in other words, defer to the King. AD is the younger, healthier, and hungrier player. He should be the focal point and the future of the Lakers. LeBron is the aging superstar who should be the one adjusting his game to AD. This lacks context. I’ll just say that the team that wins the championship is the one with all their best players playing all the games. I think the only exception to this over the last 20 years has been the Mavs. Let’s also not forget LeBron took a who’s who of players to the finals in 2007 when he was just 22. Then the super team era began. So here is the problem with our discussion. You're equating "carrying to the finals" with "making better" when that is simply not the case. Apples and oranges. Carrying lesser players to a championship series is just that, carrying. It in no way means that through his play did LeBron help those other players improve their own skills and overall numbers. I toss the Kevin Love example back at you and say that yes, LeBron got Love a championship ring but did Love's game improve any while playing with LeBron? Nope. He got worse. A lot worse. He was once a highly sought after free agent. Now, he would be an afterthought in the free agency market compared to the higher profile players on the market. This is not an isolated example either. Maybe LeBron is willing to step back and let AD lead the way but maybe not. Time will tell but my money says AD's numbers take a dip next season and he won't be part of the "best players in the league" discussion anymore.
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Post by sonstuds on Jun 16, 2019 14:59:38 GMT -5
I dunno I think AD and LeBron are going to work pretty well. More so than just taking a backseat to LeBron Love and Bosh were the third options behind Wade and Kyrie and I think that had as much to do with their offensive output diminishing than anything else. Even still, saying AD is going to be just another Kevin Love diminishes the defensive presence AD gives you. Also saying that AD is "healthier" is really just looking at the past season because for the past six years that just flat out isn't true.
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Post by kennyw86v2 on Jun 16, 2019 15:21:22 GMT -5
1. Iverson carried a less talented team to the finals AND won a game against a better team than what swept lebron in 07.
2. Its not just the 4 all stars that were worse with lebron. Compare jr smith before lebron and with lebron. Same for Rashard Lewis. Lebron literally makes nobody better.
3. Nobody mentions Love or Irving not having success without Lebron, because nobody claims they are the best of the generation, much less the best of all time.
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Post by Tim of thee on Jun 16, 2019 17:09:09 GMT -5
I get it you hate LeBron! Let that hate grow inside!
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Post by Tim of thee on Jun 16, 2019 17:16:51 GMT -5
I dunno I think AD and LeBron are going to work pretty well. More so than just taking a backseat to LeBron Love and Bosh were the third options behind Wade and Kyrie and I think that had as much to do with their offensive output diminishing than anything else. Even still, saying AD is going to be just another Kevin Love diminishes the defensive presence AD gives you. Also saying that AD is "healthier" is really just looking at the past season because for the past six years that just flat out isn't true. Who gives a crap about taking a backseat? Facts are that LeBron has won titles with all stars and has taken lesser talent to the finals. So it has worked. What’s the problem again?
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Post by Codyverse: Tag Team Champion on Jun 17, 2019 12:53:38 GMT -5
Too much salt
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Post by Tim of thee on Jun 17, 2019 14:24:13 GMT -5
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Post by The Mask of Truth on Jun 18, 2019 2:01:02 GMT -5
I could see why there's so much jealousy towards the Lakers. They're the talk of the NBA even when they're not in the playoffs lol. Now all those bandwagon Warriors fans will jump ship to the Lakers.
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Post by LA Times on Jun 18, 2019 10:24:53 GMT -5
I could see why there's so much jealousy towards the Lakers. They're the talk of the NBA even when they're not in the playoffs lol. Now all those bandwagon Warriors fans will jump ship to the Lakers. If the Warriors beat the Lakers in the playophs, I will buy a Stephen Curry jersey.
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Post by The Mask of Truth on Jun 19, 2019 3:30:04 GMT -5
I could see why there's so much jealousy towards the Lakers. They're the talk of the NBA even when they're not in the playoffs lol. Now all those bandwagon Warriors fans will jump ship to the Lakers. If the Warriors beat the Lakers in the playophs, I will buy a Stephen Curry jersey. Nah, buy a Zaza Pachulia jersey instead.
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Post by Mongo Bears on Jun 19, 2019 5:38:24 GMT -5
NBA offseason is crazy. I’m already on the edge of my seat
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Post by LA Times on Jun 19, 2019 10:00:26 GMT -5
If the Warriors beat the Lakers in the playophs, I will buy a Stephen Curry jersey. Nah, buy a Zaza Pachulia jersey instead. Why? Because he took out Kawhi Leonard in the playoffs?
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Post by kennyw86v2 on Jun 19, 2019 13:35:30 GMT -5
The Jazz traded for Mike Conley. I didnt realize Mike Conley was a thing in 2019.
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Post by LA Times on Jun 19, 2019 13:45:18 GMT -5
The Jazz traded for Mike Conley. I didnt realize Mike Conley was a thing in 2019. Mike Conley wasnt a thing in 2016 when he got a 5 year/$153 million contract and not even being a top 10 PG or an All Star.
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Post by The Mask of Truth on Jun 19, 2019 16:56:08 GMT -5
Nah, buy a Zaza Pachulia jersey instead. Why? Because he took out Kawhi Leonard in the playoffs? That was the highlight of his career. Post a pic of yourself wearing his jersey, that would be great!
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Post by LK3 on Jun 19, 2019 17:10:42 GMT -5
Even better, I’ll send you my Steph Curry jersey for you to wear when the Warriors beat the Lakers in the playoffs. I mean if.
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Post by LA Times on Jun 19, 2019 17:17:41 GMT -5
Why? Because he took out Kawhi Leonard in the playoffs? That was the highlight of his career. Post a pic of yourself wearing his jersey, that would be great! I think the only place to get a Zaza Pachulia Warriors jersey is in his drawer back in glorious nation of Georgia
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