mrassbillygunn
Main Eventer
WF 10+ Year Member
Joined on: Jul 23, 2011 19:35:48 GMT -5
Posts: 4,261
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Sept 9, 2014 23:32:18 GMT -5
As far as the indies go wrestling is certainly dated and TNA for that matter looks like an out of date product. Is wrestling in general dated? WWE has moved with the times obviously but other than production value has it really evolved? The wrestlers have certainly evolved from the previous decades and eras but in regards to storylines and stuff theres only so much you can evolve. Its fully exposed and laid bare that i really feel theres no element of entrigue anymore. Anyone agree?
Im not a fan of what i see despite a very good ppv every so often. Raw is so watered down its ridiculous i just feel wrestling has been on the wane for quite a few years now and it doesnt look like ever getting to that spot where you could call it cool again. Thoughts?
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Post by Self-Savior on Sept 9, 2014 23:46:39 GMT -5
Most Raws are fine by me. Usually Raw has 1/2 damn good matches. They've got 3 hours to fill so yeah they're gonna put have stupid matches/segments; not everything can be top-notch match/storyline-wise.
Plus, there's pretty much no way that wrestling is going to be considered "cool" again, we live in the era of people being butthurt over seeing things on TV, etc.
Also, the WWE have no legitimate competition (which pretty much forced their hand to do all the risque stuff) as well as shareholders and sponsors to deal with, so you're not gonna see the kind of shenanigans that went on during the Attitude Era on shows now. If you want to watch that stuff, subscribe to the WWE Network (for the low price of $9.99 per month).
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Post by k5 on Sept 10, 2014 13:50:17 GMT -5
i would say yes - but only because it hasn't modernized itself so well. i'm by no means the first to say this, but wrestling hits home when there's parallels to modern day society entwined. current wwe is just kind of lost.
i forget if it was russo or heyman, but one of them said how during the 90s his kids laughed at wrestling and how the men were dressed and acted. they saw that, and if a kid could see it as a big joke, then they knew they had to do something to change how people saw it. and both ecw did that and wwf in a similar time frame. no one was 'laughing at the guys in their underwear'...or at least, it wasn't the popular thing to do. it IS the popular thing to do again now. wrestling has always been a bit low brow, and i think they got confused with how to make wrestling not completely cartoonish like the 80s but still not heavily violent etc.
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Sept 10, 2014 14:03:20 GMT -5
Wrestling? No.
The writers on the other hand......
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Post by J12 on Sept 10, 2014 14:05:18 GMT -5
With popularity comes the ability to be trend-setting. WWE was trend-setting during the attitude era. They saw an untapped segment of the market and they built a culture around it.
Today, with every little segment covered and beaten to death on every section of the Internet, it's more challenging to set trends and easier just to follow instead of attempting to be a leader. The lack of competition certainly doesn't help, either. Why evolve when you're the only game in town? No one is knocking on your doorstep.
I don't see it so much as being out of date as I do being complacent and desperate to "fit in."
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Sept 10, 2014 14:16:43 GMT -5
I don't know that out of date is the right term to use exactly, but realistically, wrestling has had the same format now for over fifteen years. It's an old, old format to keep finding fresh ideas for.
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Post by CMPUNKISGOOD on Sept 10, 2014 14:25:55 GMT -5
It is the booking
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noir
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 20, 2007 6:53:47 GMT -5
Posts: 4,278
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Post by noir on Sept 10, 2014 14:27:15 GMT -5
the person who has the final say on the current WWE product is a 69 year old vince mcmahon. it's absolutely out of date.
look at how outdated the gimmicks are. guys like rusev. sure that's half the fun but it really does just perpetuate the stereotype.
by comparison, look at nxt. yes there are still some wacky gimmicks, but the biggest focus is on athleticism. some people say the wwe is ridiculous, redneck, racist, but the one thing you can't deny is the athleticism and cardio it takes to wrestle. i think trying to bring it back as a sport and a performance, more so than a goofy soap opera is the way to modernize the product more. say, 'sure, it's predetermined, but look at what these guys can do'.
and that seems to be triple h's vision. i think once vince's out of the business (which i figure won't happen until he dies), wrestling might be able to become a bit cooler again.
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Jamal
Main Eventer
Joined on: Nov 24, 2005 14:53:44 GMT -5
Posts: 4,877
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Post by Jamal on Sept 10, 2014 14:56:34 GMT -5
Yep.
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Deleted
Joined on: May 9, 2024 5:59:15 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 20:26:11 GMT -5
Without a doubt. Probably why you see all of those out of touch Vince Mcmahon memes. The product and storytelling are just so dry and dull in general. Television has evolved beyond linear predictable crap, it's obvious that it's part of the reason why the WWE product isn't as popular. Make people want to watch it. Create new storylines, new concepts. Stop rehashing storyline after storyline. I would rather have a Russo unpredictable swerve in every segment over the current product. Three hours to fill it up with great wrestling, gets wasted by idiotic segments that are pretty much the same thing you've seen before.
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Post by Chip on Sept 10, 2014 21:02:22 GMT -5
it's absolutely out of date....well maybe a better way to describe it is lack of effort and/or routine heavy
despite how much they like to pretend they are "pop culture relevant" and the coolest thing going
if they tried something DIFFERENT like...oh i dunno...featuring wrestlers WRESTLING instead of hitting signature moves and the same guy winning 95% of his matches....maybe a whole new audience would like to tune in
imagine if people watching actually would see something they haven't seen the week before.
You mean to tell me that people tuning in to a wrestling program wouldn't be entertained for 10-15 minutes by something like what we saw when Neville/Zayn vs Kidd/Breeze was on RAW?
and by all means, nothing is absolute. they dont need to fill a 3 hour show with just wrestling matches. it's never been like that since primetime TV started.
but the constant plugging, constant chest pounding, constant semi-celebrity/crapty music artist whoring and complete OVER-selling of the product is what could & will turn many people off. with so many other options for entertainment, the WWE should be putting 100% of their efforts into being DIFFERENT but it's just much much much easier to go through the motions every week and thrown in a random surprise or 2 once in a great while.
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Post by Brad on Sept 10, 2014 22:14:20 GMT -5
The main thing I miss is the lack of clifthangers. Other than that I still very much enjoy the product
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Deleted
Joined on: May 9, 2024 5:59:15 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 22:16:46 GMT -5
Wrestling isn't.
Sports entertainment is by-the-numbers now.
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Post by JC Motors on Sept 11, 2014 7:02:12 GMT -5
I don't think it is out of date per say, it's just that there is too many people on the roster right now who need to hang it up
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Post by T R W on Sept 11, 2014 13:51:01 GMT -5
Cleaned up the fighting from this thread. Keep it clean or it gets locked and more warnings go out.
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Post by Halloween King on Sept 11, 2014 18:04:39 GMT -5
As far as the indies go wrestling is certainly dated and TNA for that matter looks like an out of date product. Is wrestling in general dated? WWE has moved with the times obviously but other than production value has it really evolved? The wrestlers have certainly evolved from the previous decades and eras but in regards to storylines and stuff theres only so much you can evolve. Its fully exposed and laid bare that i really feel theres no element of entrigue anymore. Anyone agree? Im not a fan of what i see despite a very good ppv every so often. Raw is so watered down its ridiculous i just feel wrestling has been on the wane for quite a few years now and it doesnt look like ever getting to that spot where you could call it cool again. Thoughts? I think WWE's problem is too big to narrow down to one thing. For starters they do things that are so cartoonish but then they want to be taken seriously as a sport. Another issue in wwe, i think, is Nepotism. Being the company owner or the company owners daughter is one thing. But when you push aside your hired talent so that you or your family can be showcased is ridiculous. Over all im not a fan of current wwe programming these days. The only reason I care about wwe is because it is pro wrestling, I like the concept of pro wrestling I just hate that wwe is the only game in town. |
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Sept 11, 2014 18:21:43 GMT -5
Another issue in wwe, i think, is Nepotism. Being the company owner or the company owners daughter is one thing. But when you push aside your hired talent so that you or your family can be showcased is ridiculous. Yup. There's no chance in hell they'd ever get anywhere using a McMahon as a featured character. |
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StingerSplash
Main Eventer
Give em' the Scorpion Death Drop.
Joined on: Jun 6, 2009 11:30:40 GMT -5
Posts: 3,976
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Post by StingerSplash on Sept 11, 2014 22:05:23 GMT -5
In a way, yes. Wrestling needs to find a way to be 'hip' and 'relevant,' but not in the way that they've been trying. Twitter and all their social media crap isn't going to cut it. Create compelling stories that viewers in 2014 can relate to and be entertained by, and wrestling will be just fine. Switch to an in-ring style that appeals to today's fast-paced culture and you'll have some success.
But, as long as their worried about social media and all that, WWE specifically, is going to continue to drop in popularity and relevance.
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Post by greenjack1992 on Sept 12, 2014 7:37:25 GMT -5
Soap opera writing with am-dram acting is what dates the product.
The in ring stuff has become increasingly contemporised and is really exciting to watch.
The best things they do happen by accident - Punk, Bryan, Evolution's return etc - so they should try a more poststructuralist approach and less of the tired, prehistoric modernist approach they've had to their writing for the last 10 years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 7:53:42 GMT -5
I think it might be a completely dated product.
The production hasn't changed much in 15+ years. The screens at the entrance- while there have been subtle changes through the years to enhance the HD technology; really aside from the HD upgrades its the exact same visual. A ramp, and an entrance point that is mostly square. There are so many new different concert and lighting effects out there, and WWE seems reluctant to use them. It's pyro, graphics, and an occasional house lighting change. It needs to adapt with the times. Go check out some of the newer NBA 3D pre game presentations to see what I mean in terms of what could be done. The way the product is presented is very dated in my opinion. Really, if someone was watching 15-16 years ago and hasn't watched since and they turn on RAW what looks all that much different aside form the HD screens the WWE implemented?
There is way too much TV. It has become over-saturation. If you are going to have 3 hours of RAW, the first hour should be a pre-game lead in type show nothing like the in arena pre game panels they are currently doing. It would be a perfect way to give promo time to younger talents and established veterans alike. It would also be a way to get legends involved more regularly. Think along the lines of what Fox and CBS do before NFL games each week. The final 2 hours of the show should be about the ring action and the occasional meaningful promo.
The way the wrestlers act and react is stale. Why does every single wrestler have to walk slowly backwards and stare at the ring after every segment!?!?! I get it, they probably shouldn't walk with their back to the ring, but here's an idea-we don't need to see them leave every single time! Focus on the person in the ring, or cut to a new shot/segment etc... It makes the product look ridiculous when every talent does the same backwards walk and look of concern/intense look or evil smile after doing something sinister.
The authority figure storyline has been going non stop since McMahon/Austin. Wrestling at large (primarily WWE) has driven it into the ground. Enough!! You can have an authority figure not show up every week on TV and not be a heel. Those weekly HHH WWE.COM promos would be perfect for an authority figure each week to announce various matches etc... for the upcoming TV week. Keep them off TV. That way when the authority figure does show up on TV-It's a BIG deal! They just can't seem to book the product anymore without the authority figure VS baby face angle. It's awful . One trick pony. It's a huge reason they can't get over younger talent. Everyone has seen Austin VS McMahon and it was gold. Bryan, Cena, Reigns VS HHH and Steph hell even Vince if he came back will never work, because it's been done and who will do that angle better than Austin and Vince?
Cater to the TV-MA crowd by having an adult oriented show on the WWE network. Think along the lines of Shotgun Saturday Night when it first aired. Doesn't even need to have main roster guys. Plenty of talent in NXT to make it happen. Cater to everyone. Run a legends special event on the network. Everyone knows it will suck in the ring, but there is an audience for it. Some people still want to see the old guys. The thing about the network is you can do original shows that cater to every fan. They market this network as nostalgia by being able to watch every show in history, but then the on air product ignores long time fans. Makes no sense.
Kayfabe. It's dead. But why not bring it back? They already tell you its fake, "sports entertainment". But they should just present the product as it being real with a wink and a nod. Everyone in the world knows it isn't real, and everyone would be in on it- but if you just went out there and presented it as competition, It would be more entertaining. The WWE rolled over and let kayfabe die so that they could promote (in the media) guys like Cena who openly talk about how the business isn't legit. We are in on it at this point, start pushing the idea that it's real it would add to the charm. Look at the Undertaker for crying out loud, the guy is Mr. Kayfabe (for the most part) and the mystique of the character in my opinion keeps him relevant and "over". People want an escape, why not bring these real life action heroes into an element where they can be perceived to be an even bigger deal. The reality era is pas-se'. Go the opposite way of reality TV. Here's an idea- all matches need to be won by submission. Eliminating the "pin". It's drastic but UFC's popularity lends itself to this type of major change. Shake things up if you absolutely insist on not letting kayfabe live.
The WWE wants to be "hip" and come across as "cool". If that's the case they should have actual music as bumper music on RAW every single week, not just some overkilled 'Raw theme song". It would not cost them a lot to do this, because many recording labels have artists that they would love to have that kind of exposure for on a weekly basis. You can just edit it out of reruns on the network or DVD's so you aren't paying huge royalty fees since we all know thats when using legit music gets expensive. Change it up, not just one artist every week, but several. Every intro bumper and outro bumper should be actual music, not just a theme song- make RAW feel like it's "cool" and with the times! Each week would feel like a different episode and more of a happening than we get with the current (old) formula.
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