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Post by marino13 on Oct 3, 2014 10:09:31 GMT -5
I'm a little old school, sometimes by fault. But I miss the days when heels were just ******* bastards. They'd kick over a one legged nun just for poops n' giggles. I want heels to attack people in parking lots. Cheat to win. Use any means necessary for that heel heat. Heels that are so awful fans pay to see them get their comeuppance. Nowadays WWE is so scared of bad publicity that they play it safe. Most heels are heels just because WWE says so.
Bray popping up when the lights come on and signing with the crowd just isn't working for me. I love the idea and the concept behind them but the execution has been lackluster so far. Give the fans a reason to hate him. Gives the fans a reason to fear him. I mean have them attack Cena while in church. Have them attack Bryan in his home while wearing his neck-brace. Something/anything that makes the fans hate the ground they walk on. Instead we get him sitting in a rocking chair signing along with the fans.
New and unique approach? Yeah it sure is.
Working? Not for me.
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Post by Rule 30 on Oct 3, 2014 11:09:13 GMT -5
Bray Wyatt has spent his entire time on the main roster tormenting the heroes of the company. Daniel Bryan, John Cena, Chris Jericho, CM Punk, the Shield, and etc. The guy is supposed to be a cult leader, he should have fans on of his side, it just adds so much more to the gimmick. Bray Wyatt is one of the most unique characters we've seen in ages and that shouldn't go away because people are so adamant about wrestling being black and white all the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 11:17:45 GMT -5
I'm a little old school, sometimes by fault. But I miss the days when heels were just ******* bastards. They'd kick over a one legged nun just for poops n' giggles. I want heels to attack people in parking lots. Cheat to win. Use any means necessary for that heel heat. Heels that are so awful fans pay to see them get their comeuppance. Nowadays WWE is so scared of bad publicity that they play it safe. Most heels are heels just because WWE says so. Bray popping up when the lights come on and signing with the crowd just isn't working for me. I love the idea and the concept behind them but the execution has been lackluster so far. Give the fans a reason to hate him. Gives the fans a reason to fear him. I mean have them attack Cena while in church. Have them attack Bryan in his home while wearing his neck-brace. Something/anything that makes the fans hate the ground they walk on. Instead we get him sitting in a rocking chair signing along with the fans. New and unique approach? Yeah it sure is. Working? Not for me. These days, heels would need to do something truly despicable to get hated. The only thing I could think of to get someone truly hated, would be to burn the US flag on TV and that ain't happening.
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RV F'N D
Main Eventer
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Post by RV F'N D on Oct 3, 2014 11:22:16 GMT -5
I love the Bray Wyatt character. Brilliant mic work. But the problem has been no follow through. Bray wasn't allowed to beat Cena, but Bryan could, and Punk could, Orton can...but not Bray? So why should he be feared in the ring? He can talk in circles and claim to be a monster but until they let him do something monstrous it won't work. He needs to do some scary stuff, hurt people and win. He can pander to the crowd all he wants to gain followers, if his actions are still in contrast to that. Like a true sociopath doing terrible things but always believing he's right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 12:51:55 GMT -5
Wouldn't matter what they did to Cena they would still get cheered against him.
Kurt angle insults US troops vicously.......gets cheered against Cena
Edge does the unthinkable and cashes in a bloodied and battered valiant champ-gets cheered.
Orton kicks his elderly father in the head.....gets cheered against Cena.
He needs to be kept away from guys that require serious heel heat......LOL.
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Post by Joe/Smurf on Oct 4, 2014 23:31:04 GMT -5
They were on the right track when the Wyatts were feuding with the Shield... Two groups just doing their thing, let the crowd decide how to treat them. The worst thing they could have done when Bray was getting cheered already was have him feud with Cena, because obviously he's going to get cheered even MORE against him. Bray really should have been more of a slow burn character. I've never understood why modern WWE booking never wants to have important things up and down the card. The majority of the reason why people remember the Attitude Era so fondly is because every one on the card mattered to a degree. They weren't all equal, but you had reason to care about them. Wyatt should have been allowed to move more organically up the card than just "well, fans care about him so he can fight Cena." Same thing can be said for Ryback.
The other problem is that the modern-day WWE face is loathsome, and the heels are actually cool, smart, and likeable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 23:48:11 GMT -5
Here's the thing and I'm going to try to explain this the best I can even tho one Paul E Dangerously could explain it better. One of the most successful heel gimmicks of all time was 1995-1999 Raven. The gimmick can draw parallels to Brays character of a cult leader (nest/flock/Wyatt family) both were average in the ring far above average on the mic. For anyone that listens to heymans podcast "the beauty of the raven character was that this guy should have been the ultimate baby face. His gimmick of "I come from a broken home, I wasn't showed any love as a child" was written directly for a baby face. But it was the way Raven went about and handled the character and that he never broke character so much so even the "smart" Philly crowd hated his guts. You never heard a cheer for raven (in Ecw at least). Wyatt is so earily similar to me I don't see how anyone could perceive him as a baby face because he panders to the crowd. Is that not what a cult leader does? Was Charles Manson not a "heel" because he tried to get people to follow him? I say keep bray heel maybe be a little more violent If he can but keep everything else the same and were looking at one of the greatest characters in the last 30 years This is brilliant Tyler Black, I recall Paul mentioning this too, and you're right, Wyatt should be more violent but all told, his conviction in what he does is there 100%...well said... I tried to use the best aspects of his character in the recent VERSUS match in SUMMIT PRO; The Wyatts VS Rhodes/Harris/Prime...I believe I did him justice.
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Tyler Black
Main Eventer
the former #1 Tyler Black fan/Tyler F'n Black
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Post by Tyler Black on Oct 5, 2014 6:09:48 GMT -5
Here's the thing and I'm going to try to explain this the best I can even tho one Paul E Dangerously could explain it better. One of the most successful heel gimmicks of all time was 1995-1999 Raven. The gimmick can draw parallels to Brays character of a cult leader (nest/flock/Wyatt family) both were average in the ring far above average on the mic. For anyone that listens to heymans podcast "the beauty of the raven character was that this guy should have been the ultimate baby face. His gimmick of "I come from a broken home, I wasn't showed any love as a child" was written directly for a baby face. But it was the way Raven went about and handled the character and that he never broke character so much so even the "smart" Philly crowd hated his guts. You never heard a cheer for raven (in Ecw at least). Wyatt is so earily similar to me I don't see how anyone could perceive him as a baby face because he panders to the crowd. Is that not what a cult leader does? Was Charles Manson not a "heel" because he tried to get people to follow him? I say keep bray heel maybe be a little more violent If he can but keep everything else the same and were looking at one of the greatest characters in the last 30 years This is brilliant Tyler Black, I recall Paul mentioning this too, and you're right, Wyatt should be more violent but all told, his conviction in what he does is there 100%...well said... I tried to use the best aspects of his character in the recent VERSUS match in SUMMIT PRO; The Wyatts VS Rhodes/Harris/Prime...I believe I did him justice. Oh trust me man you definetly did him justice you had all his mannerisms down pact. Also I loved how you mentioned WWE over using Brays "spider walk"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 8:03:53 GMT -5
I'm a little old school, sometimes by fault. But I miss the days when heels were just ******* bastards. They'd kick over a one legged nun just for poops n' giggles. I want heels to attack people in parking lots. Cheat to win. Use any means necessary for that heel heat. Heels that are so awful fans pay to see them get their comeuppance. Nowadays WWE is so scared of bad publicity that they play it safe. Most heels are heels just because WWE says so. Bray popping up when the lights come on and signing with the crowd just isn't working for me. I love the idea and the concept behind them but the execution has been lackluster so far. Give the fans a reason to hate him. Gives the fans a reason to fear him. I mean have them attack Cena while in church. Have them attack Bryan in his home while wearing his neck-brace. Something/anything that makes the fans hate the ground they walk on. Instead we get him sitting in a rocking chair signing along with the fans. New and unique approach? Yeah it sure is. Working? Not for me. These days, heels would need to do something truly despicable to get hated. The only thing I could think of to get someone truly hated, would be to burn the US flag on TV and that ain't happening. Or a guy could hit AJ, people would boo the crapoutta them I imagine. But that wouldn't happen either (and rightfully so, I was just pointing that would get monster heat).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 8:07:34 GMT -5
This is brilliant Tyler Black, I recall Paul mentioning this too, and you're right, Wyatt should be more violent but all told, his conviction in what he does is there 100%...well said... I tried to use the best aspects of his character in the recent VERSUS match in SUMMIT PRO; The Wyatts VS Rhodes/Harris/Prime...I believe I did him justice. Oh trust me man you definetly did him justice you had all his mannerisms down pact. Also I loved how you mentioned WWE over using Brays "spider walk" Thank you Tyler Black, appreciate it. I feel like they are; something gets slightly over and then it becomes a case of he needs to do it...I believe I made him do it at an opportune time, and I appreciate that you saw that.
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Post by BoJack Hogan on Oct 6, 2014 9:29:52 GMT -5
My fear from day one about the Wyatt Family was that I didn't know how it would work in a wrestling context. They would make perfect horror movie villains, but it's hard to see them targeting titles or wanting to win matches. Bray Wyatt is one of the best CHARACTERS to come around in more than a decade, but they really never knew what to do with him. He would be Tailor made for the Attitude Era (the few aspects I liked that is. Like the ministry). His character would be perfect if he could be incredibly charismatic (which he is), but incredibly violent. Harper and Rowan would ideally beat people within an inch of their lives, while Bray watched. They'd have to commit to it, abd maybe recruit a few people out of these beatings. They almost got it with Bryan, but they blew it. Unfortunately, after that, the Cena feud nearly killed them all off (then that debacle after Summerslam actually killed them off).
No, I don't suggest he beat Cena in the feud, but he definitely should have won the first match. They should have played up Cena being off because of the mind games. The final match should have seen Cena barely win. The one match Bray won was with ridiculous amounts of interference, and he still barely won. This is not how you treat this character. The song got tired after three weeks, abd then that felt quite a bit like pandering. The Wyatts should be terrifying characters. WWE screwed up when they made him cool ( They then proceed to crash the plane into the mountain by booking them all weak against Cena).
Sadly it's no wonder they are already breaking them up. They have so much left on the tank, but the trajectory of their booking severely limited them.
Since we're on the subject, feuds between Bray and Michaels and Bray and Taker would have been legendary. These are feuds, of course, that the faces should barely make it out of, but they could've really made Bray a long term commodity. It isn't his fault per se, but Cena is really bad at selling people as a threat.
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