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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2014 5:10:45 GMT -5
lol it's not a big deal that you've never had training and don't understand the number one rule of working. Which is to not hurt one's opponent. If he were strong enough to do it, then he'd had never hurt anyone... ALA Bison Smith. Bison Smith injured Yoshinari Ogawa with it, so I guess he wasn't strong enough either.
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Tyler Black
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Post by Tyler Black on Nov 29, 2014 12:45:45 GMT -5
Damn that sucks, hope Yoshi recovers. 3 broken necks from a finisher means change your damn move AJ. Sure you can argue that his opponents need to "tuck" their necks but the fact is 3 people have suffered broken necks. You put others safety first and if people cant trusted then change the damn finisher. don't ever wrestle AJ Styles, you'd break your neck too. With the Styles Clash you aren'tsupposed to "tuck" you're supposed to do the opposite and keep your head back. It's crazy that AJ's been using this move for 10+ years and its injuring workers now. Maybe instead of changing his finisher, before the finish while in a rest hold just remind the guy keep your head back for the Clash. I mean Daniels has taken it off a stage through a table and he was fine you can't say these are AJ's fault
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Hitman Bono
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Post by Hitman Bono on Nov 29, 2014 15:14:31 GMT -5
Ogawa didn't break his neck.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 7:57:39 GMT -5
When done right, it's great...better way to end a match than the Calf Killer, natch...
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Hitman Bono
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Post by Hitman Bono on Nov 30, 2014 18:49:58 GMT -5
From today's Observer update...
Heh
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Post by MR._SOCKO on Nov 30, 2014 19:02:21 GMT -5
That's exactly what I said two days ago when I chimed in with my experience of wrestling AJ.
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Post by Tyler Black on Nov 30, 2014 19:27:43 GMT -5
From today's Observer update... Heh Which is why he should remind he guy hes working with during a rest hold before the finish
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mrassbillygunn
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Dec 1, 2014 1:12:30 GMT -5
Damn that sucks, hope Yoshi recovers. 3 broken necks from a finisher means change your damn move AJ. Sure you can argue that his opponents need to "tuck" their necks but the fact is 3 people have suffered broken necks. You put others safety first and if people cant trusted then change the damn finisher. don't ever wrestle AJ Styles, you'd break your neck too. With the Styles Clash you aren'tsupposed to "tuck" you're supposed to do the opposite and keep your head back. It's crazy that AJ's been using this move for 10+ years and its injuring workers now. Maybe instead of changing his finisher, before the finish while in a rest hold just remind the guy keep your head back for the Clash. I mean Daniels has taken it off a stage through a table and he was fine you can't say these are AJ's fault So three broken necks isnt enough evidence? You could be the best worker in the world, but me personally because i care about other people...i would stop using it. How many times did Shawn Michaels break a persons neck? None, why? because you have a responsibility to take care of your opponents body. Styles ego is clearly in the way of his better judgement here. He doesnt want to stop using it because that to him is admitting "my move is dangerous and i need to stop using it" thats what this boils down to.
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Post by Mr. PerpetuaLynch Motion on Dec 1, 2014 1:18:24 GMT -5
From today's Observer update... Heh Wait, weren't you the guy arguing that it was AJ's fault for botching the move saying the onus is on the guy that's holding the guy upside down? This fellow just said it's not dangerous and it's because of the instinctual reaction of the guy taking the move. This quote just tore apart everything that your original platform was built on ![;)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/wink.gif) don't ever wrestle AJ Styles, you'd break your neck too. With the Styles Clash you aren'tsupposed to "tuck" you're supposed to do the opposite and keep your head back. It's crazy that AJ's been using this move for 10+ years and its injuring workers now. Maybe instead of changing his finisher, before the finish while in a rest hold just remind the guy keep your head back for the Clash. I mean Daniels has taken it off a stage through a table and he was fine you can't say these are AJ's fault So three broken necks isnt enough evidence? You could be the best worker in the world, but me personally because i care about other people...i would stop using it. How many times did Shawn Michaels break a persons neck? None, why? because you have a responsibility to take care of your opponents body. Styles ego is clearly in the way of his better judgement here. He doesnt want to stop using it because that to him is admitting "my move is dangerous and i need to stop using it" thats what this boils down to. It has nothing to do with ego, the move isn't dangerous (as has been pointed out above from one of the fellows who suffered a broken neck from the move) and AJ can be as careful with his moves as possible, if the person you're in the ring with doesn't know what he's doing then you really can't help them. AJ has done the move thousands and thousands of times and has only injured 4 people. Not one of which has been his fault for being careless.
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mrassbillygunn
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Dec 1, 2014 1:28:44 GMT -5
From today's Observer update... Heh Wait, weren't you the guy arguing that it was AJ's fault for botching the move saying the onus is on the guy that's holding the guy upside down? This fellow just said it's not dangerous and it's because of the instinctual reaction of the guy taking the move. This quote just tore apart everything that your original platform was built on ![;)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/wink.gif) So three broken necks isnt enough evidence? You could be the best worker in the world, but me personally because i care about other people...i would stop using it. How many times did Shawn Michaels break a persons neck? None, why? because you have a responsibility to take care of your opponents body. Styles ego is clearly in the way of his better judgement here. He doesnt want to stop using it because that to him is admitting "my move is dangerous and i need to stop using it" thats what this boils down to. It has nothing to do with ego, the move isn't dangerous (as has been pointed out above from one of the fellows who suffered a broken neck from the move) and AJ can be as careful with his moves as possible, if the person you're in the ring with doesn't know what he's doing then you really can't help them. AJ has done the move thousands and thousands of times and has only injured 4 people. Not one of which has been his fault for being careless. You dont get it, im not saying its AJ's fault...BUT the fact remains 3 broken necks!!! That dont look good on the CV man. That should be telling you, some of my opponents cant be trusted to take this move, therefore im going to drop it for their safety!!! Damn it, his ego is getting the better of him. He needs to realise that.
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Post by Hitman Bono on Dec 1, 2014 3:22:23 GMT -5
From today's Observer update... Heh Wait, weren't you the guy arguing that it was AJ's fault for botching the move saying the onus is on the guy that's holding the guy upside down? This fellow just said it's not dangerous and it's because of the instinctual reaction of the guy taking the move. This quote just tore apart everything that your original platform was built on ![;)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/wink.gif) So three broken necks isnt enough evidence? You could be the best worker in the world, but me personally because i care about other people...i would stop using it. How many times did Shawn Michaels break a persons neck? None, why? because you have a responsibility to take care of your opponents body. Styles ego is clearly in the way of his better judgement here. He doesnt want to stop using it because that to him is admitting "my move is dangerous and i need to stop using it" thats what this boils down to. It has nothing to do with ego, the move isn't dangerous (as has been pointed out above from one of the fellows who suffered a broken neck from the move) and AJ can be as careful with his moves as possible, if the person you're in the ring with doesn't know what he's doing then you really can't help them. AJ has done the move thousands and thousands of times and has only injured 4 people. Not one of which has been his fault for being careless. Yeah I was one of the one's blaming AJ, but I wasn't going to ignore input from someone who's lived through it... Being trained myself, I find it interesting seeing the different viewpoints (from workers that is). Never having taken a Style's Clash I find it very informative (and super scary) hearing other people talk about taking the move. However, I've taken 20-30 Canadian Destroyers in practice and never once feared for my safety! This really is one of those things that's probably gone both ways. I mean, we've seen the botches, and it's not like someone can watch all of them and totally abstain AJ from blame. If the dude's head isn't even off the mat and he lands, then its 100% is fault right? There's no argument against that. But for the times when he takes the time to make sure the guy's head is off the mat, and the one taking the move tucks his head...well then that's the one who's taking it's fault, and there's no arguing that. So, while AJ hasn't been responsible for every neck he's broken, he does shoulder the burden for at least one of them. I think we can all agree that it would serve AJ and his opponents if they were to take the time to talk things out, and for AJ to ALWAYS make sure that he's got the guy in a safe position to take the move.
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Post by Mr. PerpetuaLynch Motion on Dec 1, 2014 3:36:35 GMT -5
Wait, weren't you the guy arguing that it was AJ's fault for botching the move saying the onus is on the guy that's holding the guy upside down? This fellow just said it's not dangerous and it's because of the instinctual reaction of the guy taking the move. This quote just tore apart everything that your original platform was built on ![;)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/wink.gif) It has nothing to do with ego, the move isn't dangerous (as has been pointed out above from one of the fellows who suffered a broken neck from the move) and AJ can be as careful with his moves as possible, if the person you're in the ring with doesn't know what he's doing then you really can't help them. AJ has done the move thousands and thousands of times and has only injured 4 people. Not one of which has been his fault for being careless. Yeah I was one of the one's blaming AJ, but I wasn't going to ignore input from someone who's lived through it... Being trained myself, I find it interesting seeing the different viewpoints (from workers that is). Never having taken a Style's Clash I find it very informative (and super scary) hearing other people talk about taking the move. However, I've taken 20-30 Canadian Destroyers in practice and never once feared for my safety! This really is one of those things that's probably gone both ways. I mean, we've seen the botches, and it's not like someone can watch all of them and totally abstain AJ from blame. If the dude's head isn't even off the mat and he lands, then its 100% is fault right? There's no argument against that. But for the times when he takes the time to make sure the guy's head is off the mat, and the one taking the move tucks his head...well then that's the one who's taking it's fault, and there's no arguing that. So, while AJ hasn't been responsible for every neck he's broken, he does shoulder the burden for at least one of them. I think we can all agree that it would serve AJ and his opponents if they were to take the time to talk things out, and for AJ to ALWAYS make sure that he's got the guy in a safe position to take the move. I can agree with that. Sometimes I think he tries to rush through the move too quickly and that can be dangerous if he's not 100% confident he has his opponent exactly where he needs to be. On a related note, spam.com/wrestling/new-pic-shows-aj-styles-botching-styles-clash-again/It sucks but I may have to agree that AJ may have to consider retiring the Clash. I haven't seen the clip so I don't know if this one was Kojima's fault but still at this point it may be best to come up with something he can do to everyone safely. Even though he never really had problems with it until recently.
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Post by Bob Bob Bobelow on Dec 1, 2014 6:22:08 GMT -5
Couple of things: 1. I've taken the Styles Clash from AJ and I ![](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/wfcensored.gif) ed it up. I didn't break my neck because AJ took care of me. As wrestlers, we're trained to land with our heads tucked so it comes pretty naturally after a while. Everyone realizes that you're supposed to do the opposite on this move and put your head back instead of tucking it but sometimes at the end of a match, after going all out, you revert back to what you are used to. 2. Michelle McCool used this as a finisher with no issues. #1 is very true and I was there live for it. It was a dangerous spot. He has been using the move for 10+ years and just now people are getting injured. It's not on AJ whatsoever.
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Post by That 80s Guy on Dec 1, 2014 6:27:54 GMT -5
No offense to anyone stating the contrary, but this is always 100% AJ's fault, and anyone who's ever had a lick of training would tell you the same thing. If AJ has them lifted to where they should be, there's no danger or this happening. If one it too long (tall) to take the move safely, then AJ has no business performing the move. Did Bison Smith ever break anyone's neck doing this move? Ahhh well you say Smith was a monster of a human being with monster strength to match... The little bible thumper needs to retire the move. -- I've had training (the 2 guys who trained me, have been on national TV - 1 a former World Heavyweight Champ). It's NOT AJ's fault. Guys are tucking their CHINs in, when they should be throwing their head back, and using their arms to post off of the back of AJ's legs to compensate against any possibility of landing on their faces.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 11:47:50 GMT -5
Wait, weren't you the guy arguing that it was AJ's fault for botching the move saying the onus is on the guy that's holding the guy upside down? This fellow just said it's not dangerous and it's because of the instinctual reaction of the guy taking the move. This quote just tore apart everything that your original platform was built on ![;)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/wink.gif) It has nothing to do with ego, the move isn't dangerous (as has been pointed out above from one of the fellows who suffered a broken neck from the move) and AJ can be as careful with his moves as possible, if the person you're in the ring with doesn't know what he's doing then you really can't help them. AJ has done the move thousands and thousands of times and has only injured 4 people. Not one of which has been his fault for being careless. Yeah I was one of the one's blaming AJ, but I wasn't going to ignore input from someone who's lived through it... Being trained myself, I find it interesting seeing the different viewpoints (from workers that is). Never having taken a Style's Clash I find it very informative (and super scary) hearing other people talk about taking the move. However, I've taken 20-30 Canadian Destroyers in practice and never once feared for my safety! This really is one of those things that's probably gone both ways. I mean, we've seen the botches, and it's not like someone can watch all of them and totally abstain AJ from blame. If the dude's head isn't even off the mat and he lands, then its 100% is fault right? There's no argument against that. But for the times when he takes the time to make sure the guy's head is off the mat, and the one taking the move tucks his head...well then that's the one who's taking it's fault, and there's no arguing that. So, while AJ hasn't been responsible for every neck he's broken, he does shoulder the burden for at least one of them. I think we can all agree that it would serve AJ and his opponents if they were to take the time to talk things out, and for AJ to ALWAYS make sure that he's got the guy in a safe position to take the move. You can't compare a destroyer to a Styles Clash. You really can't.
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Hitman Bono
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Post by Hitman Bono on Dec 1, 2014 12:46:04 GMT -5
No offense to anyone stating the contrary, but this is always 100% AJ's fault, and anyone who's ever had a lick of training would tell you the same thing. If AJ has them lifted to where they should be, there's no danger or this happening. If one it too long (tall) to take the move safely, then AJ has no business performing the move. Did Bison Smith ever break anyone's neck doing this move? Ahhh well you say Smith was a monster of a human being with monster strength to match... The little bible thumper needs to retire the move. -- I've had training (the 2 guys who trained me, have been on national TV - 1 a former World Heavyweight Champ). It's NOT AJ's fault. Guys are tucking their CHINs in, when they should be throwing their head back, and using their arms to post off of the back of AJ's legs to compensate against any possibility of landing on their faces. Look at the 411 mania pics dude... If AJ doesn't even have the guy lifted, then how's it not his fault? As I said, not in every instance, but JESUS CHRIST! He's already hurt someone ELSE since this thread started! And Palmer, a destroyer looks 10x more devastating and is 10x safer was the point I was making...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 12:55:35 GMT -5
-- I've had training (the 2 guys who trained me, have been on national TV - 1 a former World Heavyweight Champ). It's NOT AJ's fault. Guys are tucking their CHINs in, when they should be throwing their head back, and using their arms to post off of the back of AJ's legs to compensate against any possibility of landing on their faces. Look at the 411 mania pics dude... If AJ doesn't even have the guy lifted, then how's it not his fault? As I said, not in every instance, but JESUS CHRIST! He's already hurt someone ELSE since this thread started! And Palmer, a destroyer looks 10x more devastating and is 10x safer was the point I was making... I don't think it looks devastating at all, in fact it looks incredibly stupid, but I'll agree it looks better than the Styles Clash. As for it being safer, no. If you know how to take the move, it's just as safe. I've seen people get hurt on a destroyer too. No move in wrestling is 100% safe 100% of the time.
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Post by Hitman Bono on Dec 1, 2014 14:12:06 GMT -5
Back Rake?
On the original Smackdown! for the PS1 my brother and I used to give our CAWS eyes rakes and back rakes as finishers...If you remember, sometimes finishers on that game would give you an instant KO win. So we'd torment our little cousin by eye raking him and winning by KO while his guy was standing straight up! lol
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Post by Tyler Black on Dec 1, 2014 14:59:10 GMT -5
Yeah I was one of the one's blaming AJ, but I wasn't going to ignore input from someone who's lived through it... Being trained myself, I find it interesting seeing the different viewpoints (from workers that is). Never having taken a Style's Clash I find it very informative (and super scary) hearing other people talk about taking the move. However, I've taken 20-30 Canadian Destroyers in practice and never once feared for my safety! This really is one of those things that's probably gone both ways. I mean, we've seen the botches, and it's not like someone can watch all of them and totally abstain AJ from blame. If the dude's head isn't even off the mat and he lands, then its 100% is fault right? There's no argument against that. But for the times when he takes the time to make sure the guy's head is off the mat, and the one taking the move tucks his head...well then that's the one who's taking it's fault, and there's no arguing that. So, while AJ hasn't been responsible for every neck he's broken, he does shoulder the burden for at least one of them. I think we can all agree that it would serve AJ and his opponents if they were to take the time to talk things out, and for AJ to ALWAYS make sure that he's got the guy in a safe position to take the move. I can agree with that. Sometimes I think he tries to rush through the move too quickly and that can be dangerous if he's not 100% confident he has his opponent exactly where he needs to be. On a related note, spam.com/wrestling/new-pic-shows-aj-styles-botching-styles-clash-again/It sucks but I may have to agree that AJ may have to consider retiring the Clash. I haven't seen the clip so I don't know if this one was Kojima's fault but still at this point it may be best to come up with something he can do to everyone safely. Even though he never really had problems with it until recently. wow what the ![](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/wfcensored.gif) happened there? Did he trip backwards? Looks like a pile driver jesus christ
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 21:19:04 GMT -5
It sucks to hear, but Christ - it's not like he just came up with move on the fly...Glad Kojima wasn't injured...
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