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Post by Word™ on Dec 2, 2014 17:58:44 GMT -5
Gotcha! If I remember correctly though, they had the Real Americans theme just as long as Swagger had it as a solo competitor. They really could have gone either way on who to give it to. Especially if they had went a different route with Cesaro. Maybe Real American vs. Real American.. They could have had a civil war angle. I really think they handled him as poorly as you could handle a wrestler in his position.. He was hot, he was over. I 100% blame creative.. The 'Paul Heyman Guy' angle was a mistake from the get-go. And that is once again creative's fault.. Because instead of Cesaro joining the likes of Brock Lesnar and CM Punk, he also joined Ryback and Curtis Axel. Two other talents creative had no idea what to do with. Once those two became Paul Heyman guys, being a 'Paul Heyman Guy' meant so much less. If the machine really wants you to succeed.. YOU WILL SUCCEED.I don't agree with that. Creative makes mistakes, it's gonna happen. And they're not going to come up with every possible angle (ie Real Americans civil war). The "Machine" certainly plays a part but I think Vince truly believes what he said in the Podcast and that's all that matters to me. He's a business man first. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 18:29:50 GMT -5
I don't agree with that. Creative makes mistakes, it's gonna happen. And they're not going to come up with every possible angle (ie Real Americans civil war). The "Machine" certainly plays a part but I think Vince truly believes what he said in the Podcast and that's all that matters to me. He's a business man first. He was right though. Cesaro doesn't have that "it" factor. |
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Post by Hulk Who? on Dec 2, 2014 18:38:25 GMT -5
Will Macho Man ever be in the HOF, followed by Austin's death stare was glorious.  |
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Dec 2, 2014 20:16:55 GMT -5
Because instead of Cesaro joining the likes of Brock Lesnar and CM Punk, he also joined Ryback and Curtis Axel. Two other talents creative had no idea what to do with. Once those two became Paul Heyman guys, being a 'Paul Heyman Guy' meant so much less. Heyman's run from 2012 to now has really shown that though he's a great addition to a guy who has the goods, he is absolutely useless at making a guy who doesn't. Yup. Just look at all of Vladimir Kozlov's record-breaking title reigns. If the machine really wants you to succeed, and you have what it takes, you will succeed. If the machine really wants you to succeed, and you keep sucking and failing, they'll lose faith in you. Even if you find Albert's Tensai robe and one of Tazz' old towels for your ring entrance. |
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mrassbillygunn
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Dec 2, 2014 20:23:06 GMT -5
So what happens with the people in the UK who cant get the network but so desperately want to see this interview? ...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 21:04:55 GMT -5
So what happens with the people in the UK who cant get the network but so desperately want to see this interview? ... They look it up on YouTube. |
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mrassbillygunn
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Dec 2, 2014 21:39:48 GMT -5
So what happens with the people in the UK who cant get the network but so desperately want to see this interview? ... They look it up on YouTube. Its not on YouTube WWE have been taking them down. |
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Post by Duck Holliday on Dec 2, 2014 21:46:16 GMT -5
Liked it. I wish there were more programs where they broke kayfabe. There should be a behind the scenes seriesn..outside of Total Divas. I hate that even in the docs they do in character kayfabe bits.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 21:59:14 GMT -5
Cesaros morale must be in great shape after seeing this.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Dec 2, 2014 22:43:01 GMT -5
So what happens with the people in the UK who cant get the network but so desperately want to see this interview? ... Anyone in the UK with an Internet connection and the ability to google "how to get wwe network in uk" can get the network. |
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tenup
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Post by tenup on Dec 2, 2014 23:12:12 GMT -5
I want to counterpoint on a comment that mchmahon made during Austins podcast. He said that "stories are needed to sell a match otherwise no one will get behind 2 men just getting in the ring with no story" and to that I say BS. There have been many undercard matches in the past that weren't story driven but what the two guys did in the ring were entertaining enough to be an attraction and yes people will pop for the outcome regardless. It seemed like mcmahon was in denial for many of his reponses. But it was cool seeing mcmahon sit with Austin and touch on subjects that would otherwise be avoided on regular wwe programming.
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Post by BØRNS on Dec 3, 2014 0:11:09 GMT -5
Cesaro doesn't have mic skills or charisma. yet you continues to push Ryback and Roman Regins. Or is it because Regins and Ryback have a look you cream yourself over. so you are able to look over the fact that they can't talk. I hope Cesaro says well  you i quit. But Cesaro doesn't have mic skills. I do think Vince was wrong when he said that Cesaro doesn't connect with the audience. WrestleMania and the following weeks proved that people gave a damn and wanted to see him at the top, but Vince wasn't wrong about Cesaro's charisma or lack thereof. I'm afraid with Vince of all people saying this about a wrestler, that it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. You can't just say that openly about one of your employees in front of the world! People (fans) will now always have that view in the back of their mind and it very may well influence their support for Cesaro. |
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Falconsinclair
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Post by Falconsinclair on Dec 3, 2014 1:18:55 GMT -5
Enjoy
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 11:23:29 GMT -5
What about how Vince reiterated that WWE isn't in the pro wrestling business? does that mean all this becomes "sports entertainment figures"?
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Post by Dan on Dec 3, 2014 11:49:35 GMT -5
I was actually really surprised at how loose and open this ended up being. I thought with it being a product of the WWE Network that it would largely just be about the Career of Vince McMahon etc, but I loved how Austin interrogated him on a number of situations including Brock Lesnar, CM Punk, Undertaker's Streak, Savage etc. You could tell Vince wasn't expecting it and felt uncomfortable.
However, I do get a sense that he is out of touch. He just doesn't seem to understand the logic of booking in as much depth and detail as the likes of CM Punk etc do. Even when he was explaining that it isn't the WWE Title that's important but it's Brock Lesnar as he's the attraction... if that is his point of view then surely the Title would be worth more on somebody else as you could still have Brock as an attraction either way, plus benefit elsewhere with another Champion. Even still, he didn't even defend the point or realise the point that if Lesnar is an attraction and holds the Title, then it actually makes the Title worth more as it is rarely defended, so when it is it is huge news.
I also loved how Austin vouched for Cesaro, but once again it was incredibly frustrating how Vince just didn't understand that it was a booking failure which actually hindered the momentum Cesaro had, not Cesaro himself. Yes he does lack on the Mic, but he was mega over around Wrestlemania 29 time when he finally split from Swagger and won the Memorial Battle Royal, he just needed to be booked as a face and the Crowd would of pushed him alone. It was poor booking that led to him going back to square one though, and Vince just didn't seem to realise this.
I was glad Vince apologised to CM Punk. He claimed to of not heard his podcast with Colt when Austin asked him, yet he immediately apologised for the Wedding situation so he must of known that had gone public or he wouldn't of mentioned it. However, it did blur the lines when he said there was a huge lack of communication with Punk, even though Punk has vouched that he constantly called and texted every single day to no response. He constantly reminds us that everything he does is best for business, yet a lot of things Punk says in his Podcast, positive and logical booking decisions that got thrown back in his face in favour of things that made no sense at all, shows that they aren't willing to listen. I'm sure a few years down the line Punk will come back, when the time is right, there is a spot for him and the WWE needs a Wrestlemania draw.
One more thing that frustrated me. Austin made a fair point, that in this day and age a lot of guys in the locker room are too scared to question why they are being told to do certain things as they are scared to get fired or be put in bad books. How are we to get new stars if nobody can speak up or come up with fresh ideas. Yet Vince didn't seem to get this either, and only laughed saying they'd be jobless.
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WWE Common Terry
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Post by WWE Common Terry on Dec 3, 2014 11:52:22 GMT -5
Putting Cesaro with Heyman was INSANE because all Heyman did was talk about Brock who had just become the biggest heel in the world. Were they only trying to keep Brock relevant through Paul thus sacrificing Cesaro?
Cesaro will get another shot, just as Ziggler has, but that truly has to be one of the worst wastes of someone being so organically over with the audience.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 13:55:37 GMT -5
But Cesaro doesn't have mic skills. I do think Vince was wrong when he said that Cesaro doesn't connect with the audience. WrestleMania and the following weeks proved that people gave a damn and wanted to see him at the top, but Vince wasn't wrong about Cesaro's charisma or lack thereof. I'm afraid with Vince of all people saying this about a wrestler, that it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. You can't just say that openly about one of your employees in front of the world! People (fans) will now always have that view in the back of their mind and it very may well influence their support for Cesaro. Agreed which is why I was so taken back that Vince put Cesaro on blast like that |
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Post by J12 on Dec 3, 2014 14:28:37 GMT -5
I just got a chance to watch this now, and I loved it. I, too, was surprised at how open it ended up being. I expected a really kayfabe, or at least semi kayfabe interview, and I figured that's why Vince agreed to do it - because it was on the Network and he could control exactly how it went down. Instead, it was really informative and really great to see Vince in this type of environment. I really hope they do a follow up. These are the kinds of things that make my Network subscription worthwhile.
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Post by marino13 on Dec 3, 2014 16:40:58 GMT -5
Oh I was glad Steve commented on how tight his shorts used to be. It always bothered me so I was glad to hear him acknowledge it.
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Post by rustyy on Dec 3, 2014 17:07:36 GMT -5
He's a business man first. He was right though. Cesaro doesn't have that "it" factor. Not like he'd get a chance to show it even if he did. Pointless match after pointless match will not get you over. Because instead of Cesaro joining the likes of Brock Lesnar and CM Punk, he also joined Ryback and Curtis Axel. Two other talents creative had no idea what to do with. Once those two became Paul Heyman guys, being a 'Paul Heyman Guy' meant so much less. Heyman's run from 2012 to now has really shown that though he's a great addition to a guy who has the goods, he is absolutely useless at making a guy who doesn't. Yup. Just look at all of Vladimir Kozlov's record-breaking title reigns. If the machine really wants you to succeed, and you have what it takes, you will succeed. If the machine really wants you to succeed, and you keep sucking and failing, they'll lose faith in you. Even if you find Albert's Tensai robe and one of Tazz' old towels for your ring entrance. Kozlov was a generic monster heel, he wasn't meant to win world titles. ADR would be a better example, was never over one day in his life and was handed a RR win, WWE title and WHC constantly. Cesaros morale must be in great shape after seeing this. Just like the whole locker room, he basically said exactly what we see on TV, John Cena is who matters, and no one else. What about how Vince reiterated that WWE isn't in the pro wrestling business? does that mean all this becomes "sports entertainment figures"? Sports entertainment is what draws in the US. Although, as bad as he wants to be entertainment, he'll never shake the pro wrestling title. Putting Cesaro with Heyman was INSANE because all Heyman did was talk about Brock who had just become the biggest heel in the world. Were they only trying to keep Brock relevant through Paul thus sacrificing Cesaro? Cesaro will get another shot, just as Ziggler has, but that truly has to be one of the worst wastes of someone being so organically over with the audience. Brock was not the top heel, he gets more cheers than Cena lol. This is another great result of that useless "beast" Brock Lesnar, if he had showed up, maybe Cesaro would be in a better spot, and he could actually be a star but instead his manager has to cut the same promo twice a week to keep him relevant. Cesaro won't get another shot, not after this. Vince may as well have fired him on that show. |
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