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Post by Midnight on Jan 14, 2015 13:26:27 GMT -5
Doesn't matter to me really because Flair was a more memorable world champion.
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Post by J12 on Jan 14, 2015 13:35:47 GMT -5
Of course he will, and it doesn't really matter.
History is written by WWE these days, and only WWE. It doesn't take away from anything anyone has done prior to Cena. The stat only means something to the most diehard of fans, and the diehard fans will have ehtir own opinions on it either way. If they want to recognize Flair as more important, they will. It's all relative.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Jan 14, 2015 13:37:29 GMT -5
The nature of modern wrestling... Title changes to make a PPV seem important and justify the rematch next month. Sometimes it works brilliantly, like the Rock vs Mankind series. Sometimes it doesn't work brilliantly, like all the times it's been done to keep a Cena vs Bland Heel program going for a few months. I think you mean "Bland Cena vs. Heel"... which is why pro wrestling hasn't grown in a decade. lolnope. I understand that to angry teens, CENA SUX and is RUINING DA BIZ, but in reality, he's made WWE more money than any other talent. His years (prior to big network spending) were always way more profitable than Hogan's, and he had way more years than Austin and Rock. They're losing cash now because of how much they've spent on the flop of the network, but the third and fourth most profitable years in the company's existence were 2009 and 2010 -- who was the top star those years? If the criteria for someone being bad is that they haven't increased numbers (presumably the growth you're referring to is domestic TV ratings, PPV buys, merchandise and tickets) on the previous generation, then pretty much everyone in the last thirty years except Hogan, Rock and Austin is bad.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Jan 14, 2015 13:40:45 GMT -5
I think you mean "Bland Cena vs. Heel"... which is why pro wrestling hasn't grown in a decade. lolnope. I understand that to angry teens, CENA SUX and is RUINING DA BIZ, but in reality, he's made WWE more money than any other talent. His years (prior to big network spending) were always way more profitable than Hogan's, and he had way more years than Austin and Rock. They're losing cash now because of how much they've spent on the flop of the network, but the third and fourth most profitable years in the company's existence were 2009 and 2010 -- who was the top star those years? If the criteria for someone being bad is that they haven't increased numbers (presumably the growth you're referring to is domestic TV ratings, PPV buys, merchandise and tickets) on the previous generation, then pretty much everyone in the last thirty years except Hogan, Rock and Austin is bad. I just want to state that I understand what you mean and it makes a ton of sense. But in the sense of "Bland Cena vs. heel", I agree with Batfleck. I am, by no means, a John Cena hater as I've agreed with you on numerous things about him and see his value, but the guy has been incredible stale and bland for years. I get that it works for the masses as it makes money, but it's so stale to watch.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 13:47:15 GMT -5
Don't take this seriously but isn't it insane to think one of the biggest superstars of all time wore jorts, sneakers,and over sized shirts his entire career? Ha.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Jan 14, 2015 13:49:11 GMT -5
Don't take this seriously but isn't it insane to think one of the biggest superstars of all time wore jorts, sneakers,and over sized shirts his entire career? Ha. I know right? Like, if you just described Cena's gear you'd think we were talking about a jobber or something.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 13:50:45 GMT -5
Don't take this seriously but isn't it insane to think one of the biggest superstars of all time wore jorts, sneakers,and over sized shirts his entire career? Ha. I know right? Like, if you just described Cena's gear you'd think we were talking about a jobber or something. Like I know right? It's soooo weird when you think about it.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Jan 14, 2015 13:50:50 GMT -5
I just want to state that I understand what you mean and it makes a ton of sense. But in the sense of "Bland Cena vs. heel", I agree with Batfleck. I am, by no means, a John Cena hater as I've agreed with you on numerous things about him and see his value, but the guy has been incredible stale and bland for years. I get that it works for the masses as it makes money, but it's so stale to watch. Well if we don't like terrible bland Cena, at least WWE has spent those years also giving us amazing, fresh matchups and feuds like Sheamus vs Del Rio and Bryan vs Kane. If you never got into the Cena vs Punk, Cena vs Rock, Cena vs Bryan, Cena vs Lesnar feuds at any point in the last few years, I don't know what to tell ya.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Jan 14, 2015 13:58:11 GMT -5
Don't take this seriously but isn't it insane to think one of the biggest superstars of all time wore jorts, sneakers,and over sized shirts his entire career? Ha. Hell, in ten years, we might be able to add a guy wearing Hardy Boyz pants and a Bane vest to that. The most insane thing is that the biggest star ever (not counting longevity) wore plain black trunks and black boots. AND the biggest star on the other channel at the time wore the same thing!
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Jan 14, 2015 13:58:55 GMT -5
I just want to state that I understand what you mean and it makes a ton of sense. But in the sense of "Bland Cena vs. heel", I agree with Batfleck. I am, by no means, a John Cena hater as I've agreed with you on numerous things about him and see his value, but the guy has been incredible stale and bland for years. I get that it works for the masses as it makes money, but it's so stale to watch. Well if we don't like terrible bland Cena, at least WWE has spent those years also giving us amazing, fresh matchups and feuds like Sheamus vs Del Rio and Bryan vs Kane. If you never got into the Cena vs Punk, Cena vs Rock, Cena vs Bryan, Cena vs Lesnar feuds at any point in the last few years, I don't know what to tell ya. I got into Cena/Punk, because as a fan, I wanted a guy who wasn't bland (Punk) to overcome the top guy. I didn't care for Cena/Rock because that was dull as hell. I loved Bryan and again, wanted the non-bland guy I liked to go over the top guy. Cena/Lesnar was fun in 2012 and going into SummerSlam. Everything after that has blown. Also, this says more about the WWE than whether or not the heel is bland. I'm sorry but Sheamus/Del Rio is just as tired to me as Cena/Rollins. Kane/Bryan has been overdone but nowhere near as often as Cena/Orton. For every Ambrose/Wyatt match, we have multiple Cena/Show matches. While Cena gets the big feuds with the guys who aren't bland, he's also had a ton of bland rivalries as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 13:59:58 GMT -5
Don't take this seriously but isn't it insane to think one of the biggest superstars of all time wore jorts, sneakers,and over sized shirts his entire career? Ha. Hell, in ten years, we might be able to add a guy wearing Hardy Boyz pants and a Bane vest to that. The most insane thing is that the biggest star ever (not counting longevity) wore plain black trunks and black boots. AND the biggest star on the other channel at the time wore the same thing! Wow. Never thought about that. Both guys wore the same thing and both guys where bald and had goatees.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 14:05:56 GMT -5
HEEEEEELLLLLL NAH
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Jan 14, 2015 14:18:35 GMT -5
Well if we don't like terrible bland Cena, at least WWE has spent those years also giving us amazing, fresh matchups and feuds like Sheamus vs Del Rio and Bryan vs Kane. If you never got into the Cena vs Punk, Cena vs Rock, Cena vs Bryan, Cena vs Lesnar feuds at any point in the last few years, I don't know what to tell ya. I got into Cena/Punk, because as a fan, I wanted a guy who wasn't bland (Punk) to overcome the top guy. Cena's positioning as the guy us whiney internet fans want to see get beaten by our latest darling isn't a coincidence -- if you think you get into Cena vs Darling feuds in spite of Cena rather than because of him, you're being worked. He's kind of doing the same deal as Punk in UFC, there are people who want to see him get knocked out and people who want to see him succeed. Playing both sides of the fence. As great as Cena is, he can't spin his ten millionth feud with Big Show into anything decent, and I'd rather he not try. Any effort put into a Cena vs Big Show feud, either by the talent or creative (like the time WWE tried to spin one of Show's turns on him as the most shocking thing in WWE history that the entire universe was tweeting about it), it just comes off worse. Cena did manage to make his unification match with Orton mean something though with his promos building that, despite it being their 40395768584393490th match and nobody looking forward to it. In any storyline that's even slightly worth it (and fairly often even when it isn't), he delivers the goods more consistently than anyone.
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Post by ARUN on Jan 14, 2015 14:36:45 GMT -5
I think that it's inevitable. Cena will break flair's cena's streak eventually. Like him or not he is considered the franchise guy. He's a full time guy who works his ass off so I can understand him breaking it.
Unlike Brock ending taker streak.... Different story... Don't get me started.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Jan 14, 2015 14:37:25 GMT -5
I got into Cena/Punk, because as a fan, I wanted a guy who wasn't bland (Punk) to overcome the top guy. Cena's positioning as the guy us whiney internet fans want to see get beaten by our latest darling isn't a coincidence -- if you think you get into Cena vs Darling feuds in spite of Cena rather than because of him, you're being worked. He's kind of doing the same deal as Punk in UFC, there are people who want to see him get knocked out and people who want to see him succeed. Playing both sides of the fence. As great as Cena is, he can't spin his ten millionth feud with Big Show into anything decent, and I'd rather he not try. Any effort put into a Cena vs Big Show feud, either by the talent or creative (like the time WWE tried to spin one of Show's turns on him as the most shocking thing in WWE history that the entire universe was tweeting about it), it just comes off worse. Cena did manage to make his unification match with Orton mean something though with his promos building that, despite it being their 40395768584393490th match and nobody looking forward to it. In any storyline that's even slightly worth it (and fairly often even when it isn't), he delivers the goods more consistently than anyone. I agree. The dude is consistent and I've gone on record saying that nobody delivers in big match situations better than him. Not a single person. I understand that his booking isn't a coincidence. Though to be honest, was invested in nearly every feud Punk or Bryan had and it's not because they're darlings, it's just because they were more entertaining to me. Dolph is a darling that I enjoy, but I haven't liked every feud he's been part of. I appreciate John Cena and enjoy some of his stuff, but his character is incredibly stale and I wish he added some depth. I'm not one for the "OMG HE NEEDZ TO TURN HEEL TO BE COOL" thoughts, but I'd like to see some depth. In the end, my biggest gripe with John Cena is that he doesn't seem to take any feud seriously. I get that Bray Wyatt didn't have to actually change anything about him but he made Bray look terrible by being seemingly affected by the kids singing around the ring, to laughing about Bray later in the night. Just little things like that hurt. If he took things more seriously, I'd be pretty damn fine with him.
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Post by Flair Forever on Jan 15, 2015 6:46:17 GMT -5
Cena's positioning as the guy us whiney internet fans want to see get beaten by our latest darling isn't a coincidence -- if you think you get into Cena vs Darling feuds in spite of Cena rather than because of him, you're being worked. He's kind of doing the same deal as Punk in UFC, there are people who want to see him get knocked out and people who want to see him succeed. Playing both sides of the fence. As great as Cena is, he can't spin his ten millionth feud with Big Show into anything decent, and I'd rather he not try. Any effort put into a Cena vs Big Show feud, either by the talent or creative (like the time WWE tried to spin one of Show's turns on him as the most shocking thing in WWE history that the entire universe was tweeting about it), it just comes off worse. Cena did manage to make his unification match with Orton mean something though with his promos building that, despite it being their 40395768584393490th match and nobody looking forward to it. In any storyline that's even slightly worth it (and fairly often even when it isn't), he delivers the goods more consistently than anyone. I agree. The dude is consistent and I've gone on record saying that nobody delivers in big match situations better than him. Not a single person. I understand that his booking isn't a coincidence. Though to be honest, was invested in nearly every feud Punk or Bryan had and it's not because they're darlings, it's just because they were more entertaining to me. Dolph is a darling that I enjoy, but I haven't liked every feud he's been part of. I appreciate John Cena and enjoy some of his stuff, but his character is incredibly stale and I wish he added some depth. I'm not one for the "OMG HE NEEDZ TO TURN HEEL TO BE COOL" thoughts, but I'd like to see some depth. In the end, my biggest gripe with John Cena is that he doesn't seem to take any feud seriously. I get that Bray Wyatt didn't have to actually change anything about him but he made Bray look terrible by being seemingly affected by the kids singing around the ring, to laughing about Bray later in the night. Just little things like that hurt. If he took things more seriously, I'd be pretty damn fine with him. I agree with this, and also he tends to cut inappropriate, cringe-worthy silly promos (this is probably more the fault of the Creative Writers). But the unfunny, silly promos often just make his opponent look foolish, & less like a credible challenge.
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Post by LaParka on Jan 15, 2015 13:09:54 GMT -5
Flairs title reigns are more meaningful than Cena, even Hogans reigns are more meaningful. they were defending at big events 4-6 times a year in the 80's. defending every month on ppv and on tv every so often loses credibility of the belt. RVD's ECW TV title reign is more meaningful than Cenas title reigns. I stll Flair consider the best world champion
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Jan 15, 2015 13:24:08 GMT -5
Yes, Flair will still be the last true Iron Man in history no matter how many reigns anyone gets.
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Post by Himmy! on Jan 15, 2015 14:10:27 GMT -5
He definitely will.
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Post by cmiller79 on Jan 15, 2015 15:09:50 GMT -5
Should he? Nope Will he? Yeah
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