|
Post by punksnotdead on Jun 15, 2015 10:10:36 GMT -5
Right. But let's ask why Melisandre is at Castle Black? She clearly had her doubts about Stannis and those doubts brought her right back to Jon, conveniently. Only two people on the entire show can be Azor Ahai. Either Jon or Dany. Melisandre didn't ride towards Mereen and only one of those two characters fights with Valerian Steel, and had a d*ck measuring contest with Ice Maul. We saw a guy revived/saved in season 3(?) and we know additional characters have avoided permanent death in the books. Had they done this in Episode 1 of next season, and then brought him back towards the end, awesome. But they didn't and all this will be exposed through the internet, Kit's other projects schedule, and inevitable set photos. It's just dumb. You're expecting to not lose people as fans over a year's time and the assumption that book readers and the internet will draw people back in for next season. Again though, in the off chance he's really dead for good, you've lost the viewers entirely. I've never understood that logic (and this isn't a knock on YOU personally either), that if your favorite character dies on a show then you stop watching the show entirely.... then you were never a fan of the show to begin with. GOOD television isn't about ONE character on a show, a GOOD show has you invest in MULTIPLE characters, so that when events like last night happen... you push on to see how it affects who's left. Jon is arguably the biggest death on the show EVER (and that's saying something on a show that has killed dozens of it's principal cast over the years) but it definitely doesn't feel like there's NO reason to watch the show without him; there's PLENTY left going on. That said, I do think he'll be back as you said: HIGHLIGHT TO READ: They spent too much time over the past few episodes HINTING that he's Azor. But this season largely sucked. The entire story arc is hanging on 2 and a half characters and Dany has done nothing but get progressively worse for the last two seasons. You can't expect fans to sit through the show if it's boring them and masking bad writing with shock value. Especially if the one story arc that was keeping them enthralled was suddenly ended. If this was season 1 or 2, so Ned and Robb, I might see your point, but nearly every show jumps the shark. I don't think GoTs did that last night, as we are on the same page in that regard, but I wouldn't blame people for being done 5 seasons in and saying, stylistically, they've had enough. That doesn't make them any less fans. If you stopped watching WCW at some point between 1999-2001, that doesn't mean you weren't a real fan of WCW imo. As someone who did watch and enjoy WCW to the very end, I don't feel more entitled as a WCW fan than those who only watched through 1998. The same could really be said for Dexter if you quit after Season 4. That's neither here nor there for me, as I don't think this is the end. I do however think it was poorly done and that some people will stop watching.
|
|
|
Post by sonstuds on Jun 15, 2015 12:57:00 GMT -5
I'll be shocked if Jon doesn't come back.
The one I find interesting is Stannis. Unlike Jon his story did have a conclusion (live by black magic, die by black magic) but they never actually show his death, which stylistically is a little strange for what was a major character.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 17, 2024 4:07:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 13:53:56 GMT -5
I find it difficult to believe that anybody thinks that Jon Snow is actually dead......never really got that vibe from the book either.
|
|
|
Post by The Kevstaaa on Jun 15, 2015 14:16:47 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by punksnotdead on Jun 15, 2015 14:53:12 GMT -5
I find it difficult to believe that anybody thinks that Jon Snow is actually dead......never really got that vibe from the book either. I genuinely don't believe the show itself has provided fans with enough base knowledge to communicate that Jon can be saved. The books obviously set that kind of magic up pretty early on. To this point, they've killed off tons of great characters from the show and none of them have returned. Plus, GRRM and D&D are singing two different songs in regards to questions about Jon Snow's death. I agree with you, primarily because Malisandre has absolutely no other reason to be at the Wall sans for Jon, but if you didn't know book knowledge, I'm not sure why you would put that together. Especially, since we are to assume that Malisandre thought Stannis was Azor and she couldn't save him. I don't feel the show has done an adequate job of explaining the lord of light, at all. The most explanation the show has seen is through the BWB and what, very little, we know about the Red Witch's power.
|
|
|
Post by Rule 30 on Jun 15, 2015 15:31:37 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the happiest ending we're gonna get from this show is if the White Walkers just kill everyone
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 17, 2024 4:07:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 15:36:35 GMT -5
I find it difficult to believe that anybody thinks that Jon Snow is actually dead......never really got that vibe from the book either. I genuinely don't believe the show itself has provided fans with enough base knowledge to communicate that Jon can be saved. The books obviously set that kind of magic up pretty early on. To this point, they've killed off tons of great characters from the show and none of them have returned. Plus, GRRM and D&D are singing two different songs in regards to questions about Jon Snow's death. I agree with you, primarily because Malisandre has absolutely no other reason to be at the Wall sans for Jon, but if you didn't know book knowledge, I'm not sure why you would put that together. Especially, since we are to assume that Malisandre thought Stannis was Azor and she couldn't save him. I don't feel the show has done an adequate job of explaining the lord of light, at all. The most explanation the show has seen is through the BWB and what, very little, we know about the Red Witch's power. Fair points. I was basing my post on the reaction of my friends and Co worker's who have no book knowledge but have stuck it together that "Jon was hardly gonna be killed after the craic with the white walker's "etc. However if he is dead? I genuinely feel it's a critical error on the part of the shows producers.....I felt it was a shocking decision in the books(again if he is dead) too. It remains to be seen I suppose. What did everyone think of Sansas story?
|
|
|
Post by Rule 30 on Jun 15, 2015 15:43:35 GMT -5
Even if Mel saves Jon, there was still a ton of terrible sh*t in this episode.
-Myrcella being poisoned -Arya is blinded -Stannis dies(?) -Reek and Sansa die(?) -Ramsay somehow survives all this
|
|
|
Post by Rule 30 on Jun 15, 2015 15:46:07 GMT -5
Also, anyone else notice how they went full old school tragedy on us? Meryn got his eyes stabbed like Oedipus, and Jon Snow got Caesar'd to death.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 17, 2024 4:07:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 15:49:17 GMT -5
Even if Mel saves Jon, there was still a ton of terrible sh*t in this episode. -Myrcella being poisoned -Arya is blinded -Stannis dies(?) -Reek and Sansa die(?) -Ramsay somehow survives all this This show is an emotional rollercoaster. Except it never makes me feel happy.
|
|
Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD
Main Eventer
I need a monster condom for my magnum sized dong.
Joined on: Nov 25, 2011 16:25:54 GMT -5
Posts: 4,713
|
Post by Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD on Jun 15, 2015 16:26:14 GMT -5
I find it difficult to believe that anybody thinks that Jon Snow is actually dead......never really got that vibe from the book either. I genuinely don't believe the show itself has provided fans with enough base knowledge to communicate that Jon can be saved. The books obviously set that kind of magic up pretty early on. To this point, they've killed off tons of great characters from the show and none of them have returned. Plus, GRRM and D&D are singing two different songs in regards to questions about Jon Snow's death. I agree with you, primarily because Malisandre has absolutely no other reason to be at the Wall sans for Jon, but if you didn't know book knowledge, I'm not sure why you would put that together. Especially, since we are to assume that Malisandre thought Stannis was Azor and she couldn't save him. I don't feel the show has done an adequate job of explaining the lord of light, at all. The most explanation the show has seen is through the BWB and what, very little, we know about the Red Witch's power. Shock Factor. Also, I don't see what you mean about lazy writing. They have been getting very detailed in the writing to the point where they revealed Jorah had been infected. Hell, they had a child burned at the stake as a sacrifice that ended up backfiring (assuming Brienne did kill him). Why is this lazy writing? Is it because Hodor didn't appear the entire season? You and I have very different opinions on lazy writing. Lazy writing is the Walking Dead where they introduce you to a character, start to give us a backstory, just to have them killed by the end of the episode. That is masking bad writing with shock value. They humanized the Governor just to have him return to being a ruthless sociopath. That is bad writing. There is nothing wrong with shock value if it progresses the story and has you care for that event. It wasn't as if the murder of Jon Snow was out of left field. Had Sam had been involved, yes that would have been ridiculous and stupid. Had Reek let Myranda kill Sansa, that would have been ridiculous and stupid. Had Cersei and the Tyrells been killed while Tommen did nothing would have been ridiculous and stupid. Having Jon Snow killed by a man that despises him and his steward that felt betrayed, not ridiculous.
|
|
|
Post by The Kevstaaa on Jun 15, 2015 16:35:01 GMT -5
Even if Mel saves Jon, there was still a ton of terrible sh*t in this episode. -Myrcella being poisoned -Arya is blinded -Stannis dies(?) -Reek and Sansa die(?) -Ramsay somehow survives all this The Reek, Sansa and Stannis stuff was strange. The Myrcella stuff too. At least the Arya blindness actually happens in the book.
|
|
|
Post by Rule 30 on Jun 15, 2015 16:39:37 GMT -5
Even if Mel saves Jon, there was still a ton of terrible sh*t in this episode. -Myrcella being poisoned -Arya is blinded -Stannis dies(?) -Reek and Sansa die(?) -Ramsay somehow survives all this The Reek, Sansa and Stannis stuff was strange. The Myrcella stuff too. At least the Arya blindness actually happens in the book. Possible TWOW spoilers below? I'm only just about finished with ACOK, has the Battle of Winterfell happened in the books yet? I think I read it was supposed to happen at the beginning at TWOW.
|
|
|
Post by The Kevstaaa on Jun 15, 2015 16:42:10 GMT -5
The Reek, Sansa and Stannis stuff was strange. The Myrcella stuff too. At least the Arya blindness actually happens in the book. Possible TWOW spoilers below? I'm only just about finished with ACOK, has the Battle of Winterfell happened in the books yet? I think I read it was supposed to happen at the beginning at TWOW. As far as I remember, it hasn't but there are some different things for sure. For instance, there is no Shireen or her mom with Stannis. Sansa is not at Winterfell as they have disguised someone else as Arya and are trying to marry them to Ramsay. Mance Raydar is still alive too.
|
|
Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD
Main Eventer
I need a monster condom for my magnum sized dong.
Joined on: Nov 25, 2011 16:25:54 GMT -5
Posts: 4,713
|
Post by Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD on Jun 15, 2015 17:20:25 GMT -5
Even if Mel saves Jon, there was still a ton of terrible sh*t in this episode. -Myrcella being poisoned -Arya is blinded -Stannis dies(?) -Reek and Sansa die(?) -Ramsay somehow survives all this The Reek, Sansa and Stannis stuff was strange. The Myrcella stuff too. At least the Arya blindness actually happens in the book. I am assuming that the majority of the things not mentioned so far will be put in the next book.
|
|
|
Post by v/\v on Jun 15, 2015 18:23:33 GMT -5
Without Jon... there is nobody left apart from The Onion Knight to truly root for... Even Tyrion is tainted by the fact, he's become seperated from what we loved about him being the lovable Lannister he was to just a dwarf, who's sure to have some rip-roaringly remedial conversations with the world's most fascinating couple(the greyworms) which leads me into the other fantastically terrible couple of Sam & Gilly.... they must have had more screen-time than anyone this season and it's sickening.. a)they're dumb b) boring as and c)i feel they never go away, they're scenes go on and on and on and given that we are down on wall-related "good guys" they're gonna give us even more of it and it's not what i want. Jorah and the former greatest whistler in all the land look doomed to die too especially the one you can care for a little. Bronn's lost his magic with Tyrion. And King's Landings peeps have all gone rather wretched. So... we need Jon. we ing need 1 guy who can fight to cheer for.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 17, 2024 4:07:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 2:32:42 GMT -5
Honestly if Jon is gone I can easily be done with this show. Season 5 was extremely tedious bar that one episode with Jon fighting the White Walkers, everything else has been at best mediocre to me (the stone men fight bit was ok I guess).
Jon's story was the only one keeping me watching this Season at all. They seem to be trying to make up for lazy writing and poor story direction with "shocking" scenes. IMO you shouldn't get to use "shocking" scenes and cliff hangers unless you earn them. Jamie, Cersei, Sansa, Arya, Calissi, Dinklage, Tyrian, all those character's storylines have either become really drawn out or just plain boring. And then they altogether stopped showing anything Brandon's for this entire Season, which was dumb.
Out of the 10 hours of this Season, maybe about 1 1/2 hours was actually enjoyable to me.
(Just for the record I haven't read the books).
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 17, 2024 4:07:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 9:57:04 GMT -5
according to Kit he is definitely done......now this could be him staying quiet but he seemed to be very irritable when asked about it or something.
if they have indeed killed Jon off for good I reckon they have made a HUGE mistake.
|
|
|
Post by Rule 30 on Jun 16, 2015 10:11:15 GMT -5
according to Kit he is definitely done......now this could be him staying quiet but he seemed to be very irritable when asked about it or something. if they have indeed killed Jon off for good I reckon they have made a HUGE mistake. Yeah I highly doubt Kit would just come on out and confirm he's coming back, ruining the surprise just days after the episode aired. I think there's little chance Jon is dead for good. I highly doubt Mel returned to Castle Black for sh*ts and giggles. On that note, I think if they really wanted to keep people guessing, they shouldn't have shown Mel arriving at Castle Black. Would've been better if she showed up at the start of season 6, I feel like it's a little too obvious she's going to revive Jon now.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 17, 2024 4:07:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 10:19:28 GMT -5
according to Kit he is definitely done......now this could be him staying quiet but he seemed to be very irritable when asked about it or something. if they have indeed killed Jon off for good I reckon they have made a HUGE mistake. Yeah I highly doubt Kit would just come on out and confirm he's coming back, ruining the surprise just days after the episode aired. I think there's little chance Jon is dead for good. I highly doubt Mel returned to Castle Black for sh*ts and giggles. On that note, I think if they really wanted to keep people guessing, they shouldn't have shown Mel arriving at Castle Black. Would've been better if she showed up at the start of season 6, I feel like it's a little too obvious she's going to revive Jon now. I agree with everything you have said-(as I established twice in this thread already) But I still thinks Harringtons attitude is a but strange. Its just me...I wasn't suggesting anybody take it as written in stone fact.
|
|