Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 9:30:20 GMT -5
I'll start off by saying that Bray is one of my all time favorites so I'm a bit biased. But anyway
Everyone has their own opinions on him, from mic work to ring work. I admit that he can talk in circles sometimes and for the most part his feuds are mainly the same. But I love his mic work and I like his ring work. It really fits his character.
But ever since last WrestleMania, I read on here and other sites that Bray "can't win the big one."
He can't? I say he can. Let's break it down:
Here are the big names who Bray has beaten in 1 on 1 matches: John Cena Daniel Bryan Dean Ambrose Roman Reigns Ryback Chris Jericho Kane
The "can't win" argument stems from his two Mania matches with Cena and Undertaker. Cena was a given. Look at Kevin Owens. Who wins a feud that has Cena involved 98% of the time? John Cena.
As far as his match with Undertaker, it fit perfectly. It made sense from a character standpoint. Bray carried the feud alone and they had a decent WM match with significance on the card. Yes Bray lost. Someone had to lose. Should Undertaker have lost to Bray? I say yes but not at Mania. They should've had a rematch and Bray should've won.
All in all, Bray Wyatt has everything it takes to be a top guy. He's got an intriguing character, he's a great talker, and his ring work is hard hitting and his movements really fit into his character. I hope Harper rejoining him expands and deepens the Bray story. He needs more character development and another year of big matches and I see him as World Champion.
You take a guy with his lineage and talking ability, his list of stars he's beaten, paired with his first two WM matches against two of the greatest ever, and he's already a bonafide superstar. So he lost a couple of Mania matches. So what? People lose wrestling matches.
Bray is a future world champion and future Hall of Famer.
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RV F'N D
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 13, 2012 21:34:37 GMT -5
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Post by RV F'N D on Jul 20, 2015 9:58:45 GMT -5
I love Bray, and I agree with you about how good he is and could be, but the booking just hasn't been the greatest. It isn't even the losses that are the biggest problem to me. I just wish he'd do something to back up all the talk, and by that I mean really hurt some people, be the monster he claims. Right now he just doesn't come off as scary or even dangerous.
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Post by Rule 30 on Jul 20, 2015 10:28:59 GMT -5
The thing is even though he has all those wins, but he always loses THE match. He lost THE match against Cena at WrestleMania, he lost THE match against Undertaker, and the most of those other feuds where marred by bad booking.
His win over Bryan is still his biggest, but that was pretty much forgotten about after the Cena feud. I'm just glad they actually gave Wyatt the win last night.
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jakksking1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 2, 2011 14:45:41 GMT -5
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Bray Wyatt
Jul 20, 2015 10:31:21 GMT -5
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Post by jakksking1 on Jul 20, 2015 10:31:21 GMT -5
ProfightDB is one of the better wrestling websites out there. Bray Wyatts win loss record since his WWE debut? 119 wins (35 %) 220 losses (65%), which is one of the worst percentages for people not named Slater or Rose.
I love Bray, but he loses ALOT for someone with that much talent.
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Post by Rule 30 on Jul 20, 2015 10:32:31 GMT -5
ProfightDB is one of the better wrestling websites out there. Bray Wyatts win loss record since his WWE debut? 119 wins (35 %) 220 losses (65%), which is one of the worst percentages for people not named Slater or Rose. I love Bray, but he loses ALOT for someone with that much talent. Doesn't that include house shows though? He's probably lost a ton there to Cena, Ambrose, and Reigns over the past two years. With how little Bray wrestles on TV there's no way he has that many matches on TV.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Jul 20, 2015 10:33:14 GMT -5
John Cena - Won the middle match of the feud in the WORST possible way. He looked pathetic and needed TONS of help from Harper and Rowan and still needed a creepy singing kid to win. In a dreadful match.
Daniel Bryan - Best match of his career. No argument here.
Dean Ambrose - Yup, he killed Dean's momentum all so he can be built up and fed to Taker
Roman Reigns - Again, with help but not bad.
Ryback - Midcarder
Chris Jericho - Honestly, who doesn't lose to Jericho? A win over him stopped meaning something when Fandango beat him
Kane - Same as Jericho. Beating Kane means next to nothing now.
It's not that Bray can't win. It's that Bray can't win when it counts. He beats midcarders and guys on his level, but when it comes to the biggest matches against the top guys, he chokes. He's 0-2 at Mania and his best wins, besides Bryan, have all been "meh" at best. There is so much more that could be done with him if he was booked right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 11:39:47 GMT -5
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Bray Wyatt
Jul 20, 2015 11:51:34 GMT -5
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Post by GreyHaze:Big Bad Booty Daddy on Jul 20, 2015 11:51:34 GMT -5
I like Bray, he's great on the mic. Here's the thing... They make him ramble about some mumbo jumbo, start random feuds and then lose and move to another wrestler. It would be nice if he got proper endings to his matches and whatnot or at least acknowledge some of his feuds.
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Post by k5 on Jul 20, 2015 13:30:13 GMT -5
it's not bray's fault at all - it's that the wwe creative will only go halfway with his character. at first he was getting compared to raven - which is a silly notion, as the ecw and wcw raven was a legitimately complex character. bray wyatt is a one trick pony, but it's how they write his feuds. what has he ever done that has led to anything? what really happens to those that have lost to him? it's an incomplete character.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jul 20, 2015 13:37:56 GMT -5
Bray Wyatt's problem isn't any loss, it's that he can't build a match half the time. It's just the same old nonsense that has little to do with a wrestling match result. He has never quite been able to mesh the Bray Wyatt character with the genre of having disputes settled by a fight in a wrestling ring.
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Deleted
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Bray Wyatt
Jul 20, 2015 16:28:04 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 16:28:04 GMT -5
Bray has only been on the main roster for two years. Even though he hasn't won every feud, he's beaten everyone he's feuded with except Undertaker. He just won a great match last night. Yes, he had help. That's called being a heel. I think Bray deserves mad props for where's he's at after the lack of creative direction he's been given.
And yes, you could critique every opponent Bray has faced, but the fact of the matter is he's feuded with almost every top guy and the only one he didn't get a win over was Taker.
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Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Jul 20, 2015 17:02:27 GMT -5
The thing is even though he has all those wins, but he always loses THE match. He lost THE match against Cena at WrestleMania, he lost THE match against Undertaker, and the most of those other feuds where marred by bad booking. His win over Bryan is still his biggest, but that was pretty much forgotten about after the Cena feud. I'm just glad they actually gave Wyatt the win last night. The issue with Bray Wyatt is the WWE has done damage control with Bray Watt too many times already. They build him to look strong and when the money match happens, there is no payoff. I firmly believe Bray Wyatt should have gotten over John Cena at WrestleMania XXX. John Cena - Won the middle match of the feud in the WORST possible way. He looked pathetic and needed TONS of help from Harper and Rowan and still needed a creepy singing kid to win. In a dreadful match. Daniel Bryan - Best match of his career. No argument here. Dean Ambrose - Yup, he killed Dean's momentum all so he can be built up and fed to Taker Roman Reigns - Again, with help but not bad. Ryback - Midcarder Chris Jericho - Honestly, who doesn't lose to Jericho? A win over him stopped meaning something when Fandango beat him Kane - Same as Jericho. Beating Kane means next to nothing now. It's not that Bray can't win. It's that Bray can't win when it counts. He beats midcarders and guys on his level, but when it comes to the biggest matches against the top guys, he chokes. He's 0-2 at Mania and his best wins, besides Bryan, have all been "meh" at best. There is so much more that could be done with him if he was booked right. You get it extremely well. Excellent analysis on Bray Watt's feuds. The way Bray is being booked is becoming another cliché thing to see in the WWE. Like I said above, the WWE has done damage control too much with Bray Wyatt. This isn't a good sign at all. It is okay to protect Bray Wyatt but he needs to win a big match to help elevate him. If Bray goes 0-3 at WrestleMania, there is little hop for Bray Wyatt.
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rkoorfu
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Oct 29, 2006 14:53:10 GMT -5
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Post by rkoorfu on Jul 20, 2015 17:28:30 GMT -5
I love Bray as well and think when he had his family they could have been built up to be devastating so I'm real glad he's back with Harper. It just seems like they never have anything to do with him so they stick him in fueds with whatever babyface is free at the time and the reasons behind why they are fueding make no sense/there is no reason/ the reason is never explained.
They really need to get a long term plan going with him and build him up again. I think he should start by rebuilding his family and since Rowan is out injured I think he should convert Bo Dallas into his family. Seems like a real natural choice to join the Wyatt family seeing as there real life brothers and Bo never has anything to do anyways. Building a solid faction is usually a good thing for heels as it makes the leader of the group look like a bigger star and it gives the other guys in the group something to do.
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Bray Wyatt
Jul 20, 2015 17:39:19 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Liv Is Life on Jul 20, 2015 17:39:19 GMT -5
One thing I noticed, you say that its okay that Bray needs help to win because "he's a heel"? To me that's incredibly short sighted. Bray is a big, athletic freak whose supposed to be scary. He should be booked to be able to beat people on his own more often than not. I have no issue with using it once in awhile to actually further "the family" but Bray should absolutely be able to get things done on his own as well. Look at a guy like Rusev,hes smaller but portrayed as much more of a "Bad ass" than the New face of fear is..
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Deleted
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Bray Wyatt
Jul 20, 2015 18:15:55 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 18:15:55 GMT -5
One thing I noticed, you say that its okay that Bray needs help to win because "he's a heel"? To me that's incredibly short sighted. Bray is a big, athletic freak whose supposed to be scary. He should be booked to be able to beat people on his own more often than not. I have no issue with using it once in awhile to actually further "the family" but Bray should absolutely be able to get things done on his own as well. Look at a guy like Rusev,hes smaller but portrayed as much more of a "Bad ass" than the New face of fear is.. Triple H hardly won clean while he was a heel during his evolution days. And Triple H is a big, strong badass dude Look at heel Lesnar in 02 Look at heel Flair Look at heel Kurt Angle Facts are facts. Heels typically cheat to win. Whether it be a foreign object or interference.
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Post by Liv Is Life on Jul 20, 2015 19:08:13 GMT -5
One thing I noticed, you say that its okay that Bray needs help to win because "he's a heel"? To me that's incredibly short sighted. Bray is a big, athletic freak whose supposed to be scary. He should be booked to be able to beat people on his own more often than not. I have no issue with using it once in awhile to actually further "the family" but Bray should absolutely be able to get things done on his own as well. Look at a guy like Rusev,hes smaller but portrayed as much more of a "Bad ass" than the New face of fear is.. Triple H hardly won clean while he was a heel during his evolution days. And Triple H is a big, strong badass dude Look at heel Lesnar in 02 Look at heel Flair Look at heel Kurt Angle Facts are facts. Heels typically cheat to win. Whether it be a foreign object or interference. The type of heel character between Wyatt and them are completely different. What kind of interfere did Lesnar in 2002 have outside of Heyman OCCASIONALLY? What about Kurt Angle? I'm just tired of the notion that "because he's a heel, he has to cheat". Wyatt portrays the perfect character that shouldn't have to cheat to win..
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Deleted
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Bray Wyatt
Jul 20, 2015 19:40:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 19:40:11 GMT -5
Triple H hardly won clean while he was a heel during his evolution days. And Triple H is a big, strong badass dude Look at heel Lesnar in 02 Look at heel Flair Look at heel Kurt Angle Facts are facts. Heels typically cheat to win. Whether it be a foreign object or interference. The type of heel character between Wyatt and them are completely different. What kind of interfere did Lesnar in 2002 have outside of Heyman OCCASIONALLY? What about Kurt Angle? I'm just tired of the notion that "because he's a heel, he has to cheat". Wyatt portrays the perfect character that shouldn't have to cheat to win.. I'm not saying he should. I understand why, but that's not how I'd play it. But heels have cheated to win forever. More often than not, if you're a heel then you cheat to win your matches. Triple H had evolution. Flair had something in his tights. Lesnar had Heyman. Rollins had the Authority. Angle had team Angle or someone under the ring. Orton had legacy. Hogan always had interference from the NWO. HBK had DX. Mankind had Paul Bearer and even The Executioner It's the history of heels in professional wrestling
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Bray Wyatt
Jul 20, 2015 19:50:04 GMT -5
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Post by Liv Is Life on Jul 20, 2015 19:50:04 GMT -5
The type of heel character between Wyatt and them are completely different. What kind of interfere did Lesnar in 2002 have outside of Heyman OCCASIONALLY? What about Kurt Angle? I'm just tired of the notion that "because he's a heel, he has to cheat". Wyatt portrays the perfect character that shouldn't have to cheat to win.. I'm not saying he should. I understand why, but that's not how I'd play it. But heels have cheated to win forever. More often than not, if you're a heel then you cheat to win your matches. Triple H had evolution. Flair had something in his tights. Lesnar had Heyman. Rollins had the Authority. Angle had team Angle or someone under the ring. Orton had legacy. Hogan always had interference from the NWO. HBK had DX. Mankind had Paul Bearer and even The Executioner It's the history of heels in professional wrestling And I have no issue with him using the family if it fits to give him that edge occasionally. It absolutely adds to the "leader" aspect. But Wyatt is the kind of character that doesn't need it to win all of his matches. The only one you mentioned Who character wise shouldn't have needed it either was Brock, and Heyman help was minimal, that's why it was a big deal when it happened. I completely understand him needing help when fighting Cena or that top level, but it literally turned into a 4 on one for him to beat Cena....that was atrocious booking and actually made him look weaker in winning.
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Deleted
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Bray Wyatt
Jul 20, 2015 19:57:32 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 19:57:32 GMT -5
I'm not saying he should. I understand why, but that's not how I'd play it. But heels have cheated to win forever. More often than not, if you're a heel then you cheat to win your matches. Triple H had evolution. Flair had something in his tights. Lesnar had Heyman. Rollins had the Authority. Angle had team Angle or someone under the ring. Orton had legacy. Hogan always had interference from the NWO. HBK had DX. Mankind had Paul Bearer and even The Executioner It's the history of heels in professional wrestling And I have no issue with him using the family if it fits to give him that edge occasionally. It absolutely adds to the "leader" aspect. But Wyatt is the kind of character that doesn't need it to win all of his matches. The only one you mentioned Who character wise shouldn't have needed it either was Brock, and Heyman help was minimal, that's why it was a big deal when it happened. I completely understand him needing help when fighting Cena or that top level, but it literally turned into a 4 on one for him to beat Cena....that was atrocious booking and actually made him look weaker in winning. I'm with you. As much of a fan as I am if Bray, I'm the opposite with his booking. He was red hot going into WM 30. White hot. He and the family just beat The Shield then later in the night they attack Cena(I think?). He had momentum on his side but just as everyone else who's red hot going into face, Bray got Cenasized. I'm a big Taker fan so I was okay with that feud. It could've and should've been a lot better but it wasn't. Looking at it neutrally, it should've been epic His problem is the booking. He should be ruthless. Much more aggressive and his character would benefit greatly
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Bray Wyatt
Jul 20, 2015 20:01:08 GMT -5
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Post by sitruC on Jul 20, 2015 20:01:08 GMT -5
He should go to NXT and Husky Harris should return and feud with Balor.
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