jakksking1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 2, 2011 14:45:41 GMT -5
Posts: 2,843
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Post by jakksking1 on Jul 21, 2015 15:34:18 GMT -5
I completely forgot Owens was in the main event. That's my bad, but the point remains , he needed to respond to Cena last night .
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Jul 21, 2015 15:35:24 GMT -5
Because he looked AWFUL in the feud with Cena. He lost the big match at Mania, then won in the absolute worst possible fashion at Extreme Rules, before losing again at Payback. It's fine if the good guy has to prevail in the feud, but he should have looked far better. He went from guy who pinned Daniel Bryan clean to guy who is kind of just there. If you honestly think that Bray Wyatt is in a better position right now than he was in early 2014, then you are seeing things very differently than most. Never said he was in a "better" position. My point was that there is no "better" position once you're done feuding with the tippy-top guy, unless you're the replacement for that tippy-top guy. He's pretty much in the same position he was in before the Cena feud: fighting with main eventers. And there's nothing wrong with that. Well, looking at it that way, yes. It just seemed like there was so many big things planned for a guy who is just so different that it was so promising. And after the Cena program, he fell into just being another heel floating around.
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jakksking1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 2, 2011 14:45:41 GMT -5
Posts: 2,843
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Post by jakksking1 on Jul 21, 2015 15:43:27 GMT -5
I'll steal this from REDITT, this is from Dave Meltzers podcast
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Post by ThugSuperstar on Jul 21, 2015 15:49:36 GMT -5
Why is it if anyone loses to Cena they are burried? The way I see it is they were just put on the radar. Not everyone watches ROH, NXT or the Indies to know these guys. Now they were in high profile matches showcasing their talent. And now it is up to their talent to keep it going. If they have the talent they will keep it going. If not then they don't deserve to be there. Seth is champion and Wyatt is one of their top heels. Rusev failed because he doesn't have any mic skills at all. (and his ring attire didn't help him either) As for Owens he has impressed me much more than I thought he would and if he lives up to half the hype you all put on him he should succeed. It's not like it's just one guy losing to Cena - he's done this exact pattern dozens of times already. The entire Wyatt Family never recovered, Rusev never recovered, etc. It's different when guys like Orton and Sheamus are jobbing to him because they're already established main eventers, and have been for years. The audience's first impression of Kevin Owens now is going to be how he wasn't as good as he talked himself up to be. What is the purpose of that? After how much they've built up the US Title since Mania, a reign with the belt (even if he won by cheating) would've been perfect for him. But now, where does he go? Into some random feud with Neville or someone? And what does that even accomplish? What you've seen Cena do in recent feuds he's been in is the exact definition of being buried in wrestling.
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ellisd
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 26, 2009 0:30:49 GMT -5
Posts: 4,756
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Post by ellisd on Jul 21, 2015 15:51:07 GMT -5
Owens looked like a million bucks in the matches. This. And something everyone seems to forget is in the one match that Owens won, he pinned Cena cleanly. There wasn't any interference, he didn't blast Cena with a chair while the ref wasn't looking, he didn't roll him up with a hand full of tights or with his feet on the ropes...he got a clean pinfall on John Cena. How many people can make that claim?
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Post by YES! YES! YES! on Jul 21, 2015 16:04:45 GMT -5
Owens looked like a million bucks in the matches. Except for the part where he tapped to Cena's crappy STF. After he went through a tough match up and JUST took an AA off the second rope.
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Post by PJ on Jul 21, 2015 16:11:14 GMT -5
Why is it if anyone loses to Cena they are burried? The way I see it is they were just put on the radar. Not everyone watches ROH, NXT or the Indies to know these guys. Now they were in high profile matches showcasing their talent. And now it is up to their talent to keep it going. If they have the talent they will keep it going. If not then they don't deserve to be there. Seth is champion and Wyatt is one of their top heels. Rusev failed because he doesn't have any mic skills at all. (and his ring attire didn't help him either) As for Owens he has impressed me much more than I thought he would and if he lives up to half the hype you all put on him he should succeed. It's not like it's just one guy losing to Cena - he's done this exact pattern dozens of times already. The entire Wyatt Family never recovered, Rusev never recovered, etc. It's different when guys like Orton and Sheamus are jobbing to him because they're already established main eventers, and have been for years. The audience's first impression of Kevin Owens now is going to be how he wasn't as good as he talked himself up to be. What is the purpose of that? After how much they've built up the US Title since Mania, a reign with the belt (even if he won by cheating) would've been perfect for him. But now, where does he go? Into some random feud with Neville or someone? And what does that even accomplish? What you've seen Cena do in recent feuds he's been in is the exact definition of being buried in wrestling. His matches with Cena were fantastic and besides his debut at the NXT PPV (which he didn't impressed me at) They were the first matches I ever seen of the guy and I did walk away impressed after watching each match with Cena. And I would bet I am not the only one who thought that after watching those three matches. I was entertained and as long as he keeps putting in that same effort he will be fine. Seth fueded with Cena and he's champion now. Wyatt I feel had many entertaining matches since his fued with Cena which led him to where he is now...one of the top heels. Barrett has had bad luck with his injuries and then his work visa issues or he would be much higher than he is now. Really only Rusev hasn't been elevated working with Cena, but that is more because of his lack of mic skills. (He has zero) so unless he was with someone like Heyman he isn't ever going to reach the next level. (And his ring attire didn't help him) But back to Owens after watching his NTX debut I didn't care for him at all. But his three matches with Cena made a fan out of me. He's entertaining. But like I said above there was no way he was winning the US title last night. He is still in a program for the NXT title. Having the NXT title on RAW gives it more prestige. But having a title they are trying to bring back the prestige to go to a guy who is still on NXT drops that belts prestige. Because to the WWE that is still their minor leagues. If it wasn't then they would be competing for the World Heavywight, World Tag team and all other main roster titles on NXT instead of the NXT titles. And more importantly the announcers would keep saying things like they were getting "Called up to the main roster" but to the WWE it is still the "minor leagues" so he couldn't win that title last night and have it keep its prestige.
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD
Main Eventer
I need a monster condom for my magnum sized dong.
Joined on: Nov 25, 2011 16:25:54 GMT -5
Posts: 4,713
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Post by Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD on Jul 21, 2015 16:30:12 GMT -5
Except for the part where he tapped to Cena's crappy STF. After he went through a tough match up and JUST took an AA off the second rope. But that is negated when he taps to a poorly applied STF. Why would he tap after going through all that? Why wouldn't he keep going until he passed out? It doesn't make sense.
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Post by Brad on Jul 21, 2015 16:36:28 GMT -5
I think this is yet another scenario where the term buried is misused. Should Ownes have won the US Title Sunday? Absolutely. Otherwise, like Bash said, what now? But, he was far from buried. He was made to look like a credible threat.
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Post by YES! YES! YES! on Jul 21, 2015 16:38:49 GMT -5
After he went through a tough match up and JUST took an AA off the second rope. But that is negated when he taps to a poorly applied STF. Why would he tap after going through all that? Why wouldn't he keep going until he passed out? It doesn't make sense. The same reason why Edge tapped to Taker at WM24 after he went through hell. Then again with HHH at WM27. People tap out after going through hell, and Owens did just that. Owens is HHH's guy, nothing bad will happen.
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bigraj
Main Eventer
PSN: bigraj70501
Joined on: Nov 5, 2010 16:46:40 GMT -5
Posts: 1,779
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Post by bigraj on Jul 21, 2015 16:39:38 GMT -5
After he went through a tough match up and JUST took an AA off the second rope. But that is negated when he taps to a poorly applied STF. Why would he tap after going through all that? Why wouldn't he keep going until he passed out? It doesn't make sense. Everyone taps to Cena's crappy STF. He's always applied it poorly, why should Owens be the guy to not tap after a grueling match? He'd just gotten pulled back to the center of the ring after a great effort to make it to the ropes. He didn't have the energy to try it again and his tapout was more from frustration than from extreme pain.
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Post by ¡Twist Of Lime Green Jello! on Jul 21, 2015 17:16:57 GMT -5
There's that B word again...
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jul 21, 2015 17:36:00 GMT -5
Owens looked like a million bucks in the matches. He may have 'looked' like a million bucks in the matches with Cena, but he doesn't LOOK like a million bucks. Vince wants guys like Cena, Orton, Rollins, Reigns, Sheamus to be the main event guys. He wants them to be cosmetically appealing to the audience. If Owens would lose the farmers tan and learn to lift weights, he may have a fighting chance. Until then, he will be a mid-card guy at best. He may as well start growing that beard out to join the Wyatt Family now.
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Post by Joe/Smurf on Jul 21, 2015 17:46:45 GMT -5
People throw around the term "buried" way too often, but the feud with Cena definitely didn't help anyone. Making Cena look fallible did wonders for him, when he was having near-miss victories over the likes of Zayn and Neville, and especially when Owens beat him the first time. I'm not saying Owens should have been 3-0 over Cena... what I'm saying is they could have done a much better job of making him look good in defeat. Yes, he kicked out of the AA a million times, but who doesn't these days? It's the least effective finisher in the company. He went out with a wimper, not a blaze of glory. And it didn't make sense given his character motivations. The problem for Owens mostly is where does he go from here? He could have taken the US title and gone on to defend it against Cesaro or Rusev or whomever in Cena's stead, while Cena went on to his feud with Rollins. Instead, Owens is now just another aimless star in a locker room too full of them.
If the rumors are true that K. Dunn pulled the plug on Owens' push because his merch sales were adversely affecting Cena's, I'd say that is the single most petty thing I've ever heard. Aren't we supposed to be building competent stars on both side of the ledger, heel and face? Forget Vince McMahon, the WWE will be better off when Dunn is out of the picture.
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Post by Colter on Jul 21, 2015 17:47:43 GMT -5
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Post by ~ Cymru ~ on Jul 21, 2015 17:56:06 GMT -5
Yeah pretty sure thats the last well see of Kevin Jones... It was Jones wasn't it?
Nah in all seriousness its happened before and it'll happen again, if anything its a good way to see if fans really are invested in Owens. Besides he's one of the few guys who get a good loud reaction, he doesn't need the belt.
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Post by mikey1974 on Jul 21, 2015 18:00:19 GMT -5
People throw around the term "buried" way too often, but the feud with Cena definitely didn't help anyone. Making Cena look fallible did wonders for him, when he was having near-miss victories over the likes of Zayn and Neville, and especially when Owens beat him the first time. I'm not saying Owens should have been 3-0 over Cena... what I'm saying is they could have done a much better job of making him look good in defeat. Yes, he kicked out of the AA a million times, but who doesn't these days? It's the least effective finisher in the company. He went out with a wimper, not a blaze of glory. And it didn't make sense given his character motivations. The problem for Owens mostly is where does he go from here? He could have taken the US title and gone on to defend it against Cesaro or Rusev or whomever in Cena's stead, while Cena went on to his feud with Rollins. Instead, Owens is now just another aimless star in a locker room too full of them. If the rumors are true that K. Dunn pulled the plug on Owens' push because his merch sales were adversely affecting Cena's, I'd say that is the single most petty thing I've ever heard. Aren't we supposed to be building competent stars on both side of the ledger, heel and face? Forget Vince McMahon, the WWE will be better off when Dunn is out of the picture. agree with everything you said. and it's been rumored through dirtsheets and sources for awhile now that Dunn and HHH can't stand each other,but Dunn has Vince's ear to a degree that even Stephanie or Trips don't have,and it's been said Dunn has a grudge against most of the NXT people since it's Trips baby.. so if he tells Vince that Owens is no damn good, or needs his push stopped, Vince will listen.
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Post by knupmc on Jul 21, 2015 18:00:54 GMT -5
Just because Owens lost the feud doesn't mean he lost his career. An example of someone who was buried was Sandow. When he unsuccessfully cashed in the mitb and starting dressing as Lebron James, and Magneto, that is being buried. Did this feud benefit Owens? No. Would I have liked to see him go over? Yes. Is he buried? No. Just let time roll on and I'm sure hell get somewhere.
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Post by Chip on Jul 21, 2015 18:05:48 GMT -5
it's still early, but im not as excited for Owens being in the big plans for the future as i was 2 months ago. seems a bit odd that they bring him up, make him a huge deal and then he's just gonna lose all the time. but then again this is 2015 WWE, it's not wrestling...it's good guys win, bad guys lose.
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The Dave
Main Eventer
Con-Chair-Tos all around!
Joined on: Feb 2, 2008 15:29:11 GMT -5
Posts: 3,480
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Post by The Dave on Jul 21, 2015 18:06:10 GMT -5
Like the old saying goes, the less Kevin Owens the better.
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