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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 16:58:37 GMT -5
Does anybody know why he did it? Last night news said he did it because of hatred he had built up because of what happened in charleston
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Post by @.@ Hempsterdance @.@ on Aug 27, 2015 17:41:06 GMT -5
The mass media will never give the full reason behind his actions because they dont know, no one does. Its a sad thing that happened but a lot of news stations are doing nothing but fear mongering 98% of the time.
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Post by Nivro™ on Aug 27, 2015 17:46:43 GMT -5
Gotta love the gun control nuts.
CRIMINALS DON'T FOLLOW LAWS....PERIOD!
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Post by Adam on Aug 27, 2015 18:23:35 GMT -5
So that means just give up on any laws since there will be criminals who won't follow them?
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Post by Nivro™ on Aug 27, 2015 19:36:49 GMT -5
So that means just give up on any laws since there will be criminals who won't follow them? We.have.gun.laws! I dont see why people dont understand that its not as simple as "Hey Im gonna go to walmart for a gallon of milk & AR-15". If you make laws so strict that law biding citizens cannot own/buy guns...guess what? The ONLY people that will be owning guns will be criminals! Then you have stupid brain dead morons like Kim Kardashian who tweet out that you can buy guns online and have them shipped to your house with no background checks. If there is a site like that, I dont know of it and Ill tell you why...ITS ILLEGAL! If you want to buy a gun from any certified online firearms store guess what, you're going to go through the same FFL & background checks that you would have to if you walked into store. There is absolutely NO laws that the gov't can enforce to remove guns from CRIMINALS! I dont own a gun. Never have, doubt I ever will...Im not sure. Ive never even shot a gun. However Ill say this. If you want to know FACTS about gun laws & gun control follow @dloesch on Twitter. Feel free to ignore her other political posts as I understand not everyone has the same feelings on things like Planned Parenthood or Obamacare but when she posts about gun control & statistics, they're 99% backed with facts and not just some media driven BS to strike fear into American people.
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Post by theMOESIAH on Aug 27, 2015 20:02:32 GMT -5
Guns are certainly part of the equation but they aren't the problem. Call me a pro gun nut but I fully believe in the constitutional right to bare arms. Do I support the NRA or any of its' mission? Hell no, the bigger issue to me is the mental health epidemic. There are millions of people in the United States who are ticking time bombs. You can't takeaway a legal citizens right to bare arms but I sure would love to see them include an evaluation of psych records(Never gonna happen) in the background check. I think the more dangerous thing is that guns are a way of life fur many Americans. It's ingrained into our society, which is a very dangerous thing. The pro-gun people will spout any nonsense that supports their side. It doesn't matter how many people, even women and children, have to die. All that matters is their precious guns. And to all the pro-gun people in this thread, can any of you name one country that either passed strict gun control laws or banned them outright and saw a increase in gun violence?
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Post by screech on Aug 27, 2015 20:13:14 GMT -5
Guns are certainly part of the equation but they aren't the problem. Call me a pro gun nut but I fully believe in the constitutional right to bare arms. Do I support the NRA or any of its' mission? Hell no, the bigger issue to me is the mental health epidemic. There are millions of people in the United States who are ticking time bombs. You can't takeaway a legal citizens right to bare arms but I sure would love to see them include an evaluation of psych records(Never gonna happen) in the background check. I think the more dangerous thing is that guns are a way of life fur many Americans. It's ingrained into our society, which is a very dangerous thing. The pro-gun people will spout any nonsense that supports their side. It doesn't matter how many people, even women and children, have to die. All that matters is their precious guns. And to all the pro-gun people in this thread, can any of you name one country that either passed strict gun control laws or banned them outright and saw a increase in gun violence? Do you ever reply in these threads without generalizing all pro-gun people? Nobody can answer your question because no other country has had a similar gun situation to US when doing a gun ban. There are many different circumstances that cannot be ignored when trying to compare how their systems would work here when there is already an insane amount of guns out there in the hands of people who won't turn them in. Gun violence has decreased in those areas because there weren't a huge amount of guns out in the public, therefore making it easier to swoop up any banned guns. Violent crime has increased in many of those areas, however, which involves many innocent people being victimized by thugs who know their prey is unarmed and defenseless. Meanwhile the gun violence here, opposed to the violent crime in gun control areas, is mostly criminals killing criminals and not predominantly "women and children" as you like to single out to fit your narrative. Since you like to throw out questions that you claim no pro-gun people will answer, why will no one offer a solution to the gun problem that would have stopped Sandy Hook from happening? The only solution I've read is that his mom shouldn't have been able to buy a gun but nothing more specific than that and talk about "mental health screenings" which is not specific either.
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Post by theMOESIAH on Aug 27, 2015 20:24:31 GMT -5
I think the more dangerous thing is that guns are a way of life fur many Americans. It's ingrained into our society, which is a very dangerous thing. The pro-gun people will spout any nonsense that supports their side. It doesn't matter how many people, even women and children, have to die. All that matters is their precious guns. And to all the pro-gun people in this thread, can any of you name one country that either passed strict gun control laws or banned them outright and saw a increase in gun violence? Do you ever reply in these threads without generalizing all pro-gun people? Nobody can answer your question because no other country has had a similar gun situation to US when doing a gun ban. There are many different circumstances that cannot be ignored when trying to compare how their systems would work here when there is already an insane amount of guns out there in the hands of people who won't turn them in. Gun violence has decreased in those areas because there weren't a huge amount of guns out in the public, therefore making it easier to swoop up any banned guns. Violent crime has increased in many of those areas, however, which involves many innocent people being victimized by thugs who know their prey is unarmed and defenseless. Meanwhile the gun violence here, opposed to the violent crime in gun control areas, is mostly criminals killing criminals and not predominantly "women and children" as you like to single out to fit your narrative. Since you like to throw out questions that you claim no pro-gun people will answer, why will no one offer a solution to the gun problem that would have stopped Sandy Hook from happening? The only solution I've read is that his mom shouldn't have been able to buy a gun but nothing more specific than that and talk about "mental health screenings" which is not specific either. 1. Do you have a source for that claim? 2. I never said anyone was predominantly anything. You're putting words in my mouth. What I said was that it clearly doesn't matter to the pro-gun people when women and children do get murdered because the knee-jerk reaction is to blame gun violence in everyone and everything other than the guns themselves. 3. Here's a solution that could have prevented the Sandy Hook massacre: NOT GIVING JUST ABOUT EVERYONE NEAR UNFETTERED ACCESS TO DANGEROUS DEATH MACHINES THAT NO ONE NEEDS. It's bizarre. Our right as citizens to not get shot by some nutjob should supercede this unnecessary right to carry a weapon.
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Post by Flair Forever on Aug 27, 2015 20:24:57 GMT -5
Absolutely horrifying, I'm really growing depressed this year whenever I watch current events. This is an absolute tragedy.
Based on his manifesto - seems like this dude was completely bat-crap out of his mind.... and somehow, walking among the general public without anyone caring or doing anything about it. Years ago, crazy folks were put into institutions & kept away from the general society until they were rehabilitated (or kept away if they couldn't be) - however, in our modern PC world, the nutballs are ignored & tolerated until they snap....
Personally - I'm a fan of more gun control - however, I'd like to see America address a bigger problem, which is mental health & awareness. If someone had recognized that this dude was a loon (and I'm quite sure he gave people plenty of signs) - this tragedy could have been avoided. Seems like he probably had people in his life that cared about him, somewhat - why didn't anyone help him?
At this point - I'm about ready to never let my kids leave the house. It's a scary world out there.
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Post by theMOESIAH on Aug 27, 2015 20:28:44 GMT -5
Absolutely horrifying, I'm really growing depressed this year whenever I watch current events. This is an absolute tragedy. Based on his manifesto - seems like this dude was completely bat-crap out of his mind.... and somehow, walking among the general public without anyone caring or doing anything about it. Years ago, crazy folks were put into institutions & kept away from the general society - however, in our modern PC world, the nutballs are ignored & tolerated until they snap.... Personally - I'm a fan of more gun control - however, I'd like to see America address a bigger problem, which is mental health & awareness. If someone had recognized that this dude was a loon (and I'm quite sure he gave people plenty of signs) - this tragedy could have been avoided. Seems like he probably had people in his life that cared about him, somewhat - why didn't anyone help him? At this point - I'm about ready to never let my kids leave the house. It's a scary world out there. Our PC society has nothing to do with it. We no longer have an infrastructure to treat the mentally ill. Some might say that this started when our Almighty Lord and Savor Ronald Regan shut down many of the mental hospitals. But I'm sure someone will find a way to blame Obama.
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Post by Nivro™ on Aug 27, 2015 20:31:19 GMT -5
Guns are certainly part of the equation but they aren't the problem. Call me a pro gun nut but I fully believe in the constitutional right to bare arms. Do I support the NRA or any of its' mission? Hell no, the bigger issue to me is the mental health epidemic. There are millions of people in the United States who are ticking time bombs. You can't takeaway a legal citizens right to bare arms but I sure would love to see them include an evaluation of psych records(Never gonna happen) in the background check. I think the more dangerous thing is that guns are a way of life fur many Americans. It's ingrained into our society, which is a very dangerous thing. The pro-gun people will spout any nonsense that supports their side. It doesn't matter how many people, even women and children, have to die. All that matters is their precious guns. And to all the pro-gun people in this thread, can any of you name one country that either passed strict gun control laws or banned them outright and saw a increase in gun violence? The first mistake in your question is asking for a country that banned them that had increased gun violence. For law biding citizens, its not about gun violence its about the right to bare arms and defend yourself. So removing the word "gun" in your question, if you want a country that enforced strict gun laws and had an increase in violence...Look no further then England, the most violent country in Europe. www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/09/24/how-gun-control-made-england-the-most-violent-country-in-europe/If you really want something reasonable to look at though (cause lets be realistic, comparing a country of billions to a country of a few thousand/million is kinda silly). Just look at the wonderful city of Chicago. Some of the strictest gun laws in the country, has one of the highest gun violence rates in the country. But if you're really worried about gun violence. You need to understand there is less gun violence now then there was 20 years ago. link What people dont understand is that our world has changed so much with multiple 24hr media outlets, social media that everything is clicks away in a matter of seconds. Growing up in the late 80s/early 90s, if there was a crime committed at 7am in the morning, you wouldnt know the story until you got home and watched the 6pm news. Now, you can commit a crime, record it and post it on social media for thousands/millions to view in a matter of minutes.
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Post by Brad on Aug 27, 2015 21:14:10 GMT -5
This world is sick. There was an active shooter at Mississippi State today.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 21:37:20 GMT -5
Blaming guns is nonsense. This is clearly a mental health issue, not gun control. If this piece of crap didn't have access to a gun to murder two people who's to say he wouldn't have gone further with his psychosis and burned the entire news station down? If there's a will, there's a way. Not having a gun is not going to stop someone already crazy enough to murder a human being. I'm definitely not debating this any further, but my heart aches for those young people's families. It's just not a sustainable argument. A mentally ill person with ease of access is more dangerous than a mentally ill person that doesn't have the firearm readily available. You can snowball and say he could've burned down the entire station, but the reality is that he walked in and bought a gun after the church massacre, no questions asked, and murdered two people. I honestly think that not having a gun readily available would definitely stop a lot of crimes of passion. This is worth a watch if you have a spare fifteen minutes:
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Post by Happy Pizza on Aug 27, 2015 21:44:54 GMT -5
I remember watching an episode of 60 minutes years ago regarding gun control. This was right after the Virginia Tech shooting.
As an experiment, they put civilians and trained police officers into a college classroom and gave them holstered firearms with dummy rounds. They told them at some point an actor wearing body armor would come into the classroom and "open fire" with fake pistols and assault rifles. Even being told about the situation ahead of time, armed with their own guns, and with years of training on how to use them, none of the people in the classrom got a shot on the guy. Most didn't even get their gun out of the holster before they were "killed" by the gunman.
I don't have a hard stance on this issue, but sadly sometimes there's just nothing you can do to stop evil people.
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Post by Tim of thee on Aug 27, 2015 21:58:48 GMT -5
I don't have a hard stance on this issue, but sadly sometimes there's just nothing you can do to stop evil people. Man, I think you nailed it for me. This is such a sad situation and the fact that people are having a political discussion about this, I feel, is misplaced.
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Post by Nivro™ on Aug 27, 2015 22:25:26 GMT -5
I don't have a hard stance on this issue, but sadly sometimes there's just nothing you can do to stop evil people. Man, I think you nailed it for me. This is such a sad situation and the fact that people are having a political discussion about this, I feel, is misplaced. Sadly you're right. After this happened if Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, the Mayor of Roanoke (dont know his name) etc....if they all came out and said "We need to stop evil people from doing evil things" you would have had both sides, Democrat & Republicans stand up & clap. Because this is what its about, EVIL PEOPLE. However they didnt. They quickly saw a topic to launch their political agenda against and they turned a tragedy into a political debate.
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Post by screech on Aug 27, 2015 22:28:37 GMT -5
Do you ever reply in these threads without generalizing all pro-gun people? Nobody can answer your question because no other country has had a similar gun situation to US when doing a gun ban. There are many different circumstances that cannot be ignored when trying to compare how their systems would work here when there is already an insane amount of guns out there in the hands of people who won't turn them in. Gun violence has decreased in those areas because there weren't a huge amount of guns out in the public, therefore making it easier to swoop up any banned guns. Violent crime has increased in many of those areas, however, which involves many innocent people being victimized by thugs who know their prey is unarmed and defenseless. Meanwhile the gun violence here, opposed to the violent crime in gun control areas, is mostly criminals killing criminals and not predominantly "women and children" as you like to single out to fit your narrative. Since you like to throw out questions that you claim no pro-gun people will answer, why will no one offer a solution to the gun problem that would have stopped Sandy Hook from happening? The only solution I've read is that his mom shouldn't have been able to buy a gun but nothing more specific than that and talk about "mental health screenings" which is not specific either. 1. Do you have a source for that claim? 2. I never said anyone was predominantly anything. You're putting words in my mouth. What I said was that it clearly doesn't matter to the pro-gun people when women and children do get murdered because the knee-jerk reaction is to blame gun violence in everyone and everything other than the guns themselves. 3. Here's a solution that could have prevented the Sandy Hook massacre: NOT GIVING JUST ABOUT EVERYONE NEAR UNFETTERED ACCESS TO DANGEROUS DEATH MACHINES THAT NO ONE NEEDS. It's bizarre. Our right as citizens to not get shot by some nutjob should supercede this unnecessary right to carry a weapon. 1. Yes I do. According to the Australian Institute of Criminology's website, "Reported sexual assaults have increased by 51 percent since 1995, at an average of four percent each year". The 1995-2007 robbery charts show that the armed and unarmed robbery rates steadily increased and peaked around 2001 but barely made it back down near the 1995 rates around 2007. Even then, it still shows the armed robbery rates to be higher in 2007 than they were in 1995, and they were much higher than the 2007 rate around 2001. As for non-sexual assaults, "The trend in assaults shows an average growth of five percent each year from 1995 to 2007, four times the annual growth of the Australian population in the same period." None of the statistics show that gun control prevented violent crimes outside of gun homicides. In fact, the data shows that most of those crimes tended to increase in the years after the gun control legislation and barely made their way back down to match their 1995 numbers. www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime/sexual%20assault.htmlwww.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime/robbery.html2. " I never said anyone was predominantly anything. You're putting words in my mouth. What I said was that it clearly doesn't matter to the pro-gun people when women and children do get murdered because the knee-jerk reaction is to blame gun violence in everyone and everything other than the guns themselves." Um I beg to differ that you don't group all "pro-gun" people into one category when you make statements about "pro-gun" people and don't make distinctions. You literally just claimed that it doesn't matter to "pro-gun people" when women and children get murdered? Are you ing kidding me? I'm pro-gun and I absolutely care about anyone innocent who is murdered by a gun. But I can also realize that a mass sweeping up of guns from law-abiding citizens (the ONLY people turning them in) will make overall violence worse in this country because the only people left with them will be those who don't turn them in. (...Criminals.) There are a whole lot of people who are “pro-gun” and to suggest that murdered children don’t matter to them is outrageous and ludicrous. You added "the knee-jerk reaction is to blame gun violence in everyone and everything other than the guns themselves. " The only people I have seen blame gun violence on "everyone and everything" are the people who are anti-gun and try to place blame on law-abiding gun owners for somehow allowing the crimes to happen in the first place. Law-abiding gun owners blame only the person who committed the crime and not the gun because the gun is inanimate? I don't blame forks for people being fat and I don't blame razors for people who cut themselves. I blame the person using those tools for making those decisions. In fact, the only people who are guilty of gun violence are those that commit it. Trying to pull on heart strings regarding dead children as if "pro-gun" people should feel some sort of personal guilt for those crimes is pathetic. 3. “NOT GIVING JUST ABOUT EVERYONE NEAR UNFETTERED ACCESS TO DANGEROUS DEATH MACHINES THAT NO ONE NEEDS” isn’t a specific solution and doesn’t really answer my question at all. Saying that access is too easy to obtain isn’t a solution that would have prevented it. In the specific case of Nancy Lanza, what specific solution would have prevented her easy access and ultimately prevented that event from happening? What technicality should have disqualified her from being able to purchase a gun if she already went through the government background check and had a clean record? Or are you suggesting that the solution would have been to have gun sales completely prohibited, even to anyone with a clean record that can pass a background check? I would love to hear specifics rather than saying it shouldn’t have been easy to get access because that doesn’t answer the question at all. Please give me a specific solution that the government could have implemented that would have prevented Adam Lanza from shooting up Sandy Hook.
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Post by screech on Aug 27, 2015 22:43:58 GMT -5
Blaming guns is nonsense. This is clearly a mental health issue, not gun control. If this piece of crap didn't have access to a gun to murder two people who's to say he wouldn't have gone further with his psychosis and burned the entire news station down? If there's a will, there's a way. Not having a gun is not going to stop someone already crazy enough to murder a human being. I'm definitely not debating this any further, but my heart aches for those young people's families. It's just not a sustainable argument. A mentally ill person with ease of access is more dangerous than a mentally ill person that doesn't have the firearm readily available. You can snowball and say he could've burned down the entire station, but the reality is that he walked in and bought a gun after the church massacre, no questions asked, and murdered two people. I honestly think that not having a gun readily available would definitely stop a lot of crimes of passion. The reality is that his arrest record was enough in South Carolina to prohibit him from legally purchasing a firearm. The background check failed in identifying him as someone who cannot legally purchase a gun because a "clerical error" allowed the FBI to completely overlook his arrest record. " However, an agent working for the FBI's background check system who was performing the review on Roof failed to contact the Columbia, South Carolina, police department which arrested Roof, in part because of a clerical error in records listing the wrong agency." That quote suggests that someone not doing their job correctly subsequently caused his previous arrest record to be overlooked, rather than suggesting the whole background check system is flawed in preventing criminals/felons from obtaining firearms. www.cnn.com/2015/07/10/politics/dylann-roof-fbi-gun-south-carolina/
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 23:52:22 GMT -5
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nWo_Sentinel
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Post by nWo_Sentinel on Aug 28, 2015 0:18:54 GMT -5
For those of you who believe that gun control will work....take a hard look at Chicago. They have some of the toughest gun laws in America and as of this summer have the highest gun homicide rate....I'd be willing to bet that most of the guns weren't obtained legally. Think about it.
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