Deleted
Joined on: Sept 28, 2024 0:17:50 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2016 5:27:44 GMT -5
I want a new Smackdown Six of Owens, Zayn, Ziggler, Ambrose, Breeze and Styles.
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Post by cordless2016 on Feb 25, 2016 7:33:52 GMT -5
They had no problem building top guys like Rock, Austin, HHH, Angle, and Foley during the Attitude Era while also reimagining Taker while keeping him a top guy. Why can't they do it now... what you have to remember is this isn't the attitude era. wrestling isn't anywhere near as popular as it was then. and not only that but the people who supposedly do like wrestling, boo every face except ambrose.
its a different time. the same thing isn't gonna work forever. they need to find new ways of making progress and the brand split could well be one of those new ways.
Different times but wrestling not being as popular as it once was isn't why they can't create top guys. They are just bad at it now. The fans boo guys like Cena and Reigns because they don't want to be force fed a superman. They want the guys they like to be pushed. It's why Bryan and Punk were so over. It's why Ambrose is over right now. It's a simple formula yet the WWE are stuck in an 80s mindset. You can't blame the fans for the WWE not being able to write worth a s***.
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bigbalooka
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Dec 10, 2015 10:39:09 GMT -5
Posts: 148
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Post by bigbalooka on Feb 25, 2016 7:52:32 GMT -5
what you have to remember is this isn't the attitude era. wrestling isn't anywhere near as popular as it was then. and not only that but the people who supposedly do like wrestling, boo every face except ambrose.
its a different time. the same thing isn't gonna work forever. they need to find new ways of making progress and the brand split could well be one of those new ways.
Different times but wrestling not being as popular as it once was isn't why they can't create top guys. They are just bad at it now. The fans boo guys like Cena and Reigns because they don't want to be force fed a superman. They want the guys they like to be pushed. It's why Bryan and Punk were so over. It's why Ambrose is over right now. It's a simple formula yet the WWE are stuck in an 80s mindset. You can't blame the fans for the WWE not being able to write worth a s***. imo it has nothing to do with who is being pushed. everyone cheered reigns until they started the mega push. fact is everyone who has ever been a main stay top guy spent a few years in the mid card first.
you mentioned guys like punk and bryan. they were guys who were on the mid card working there asses off for years and when they finally got their push it was welcomed with open arms.
I firmly believe that if ambrose had gotten the push instead of reigns, their would have been a similar reaction (although maybe not quite as bad)
its not a case of pushing the wrong people imo. its just too much too soon
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Post by K5 on Feb 25, 2016 12:01:04 GMT -5
i really disliked the brand extension when it happened. i was 12, and i didn't always get to watch raw, so suddenly being unable to see the rock or rvd or any other of my favourites was not something i was inclined towards. i also felt like they overall mishandled it initially as well, and then over time it just seemed to be relatively non existent. i didn't understand the idea that they had an absurd amount of talent to work with and were trying to properly saturate their product and potentially grow it.
it's a different time now. we've seen the success that smackdown 2004 for heyman was and nxt is for hhh now - so we get how if other people get the ball to run with things, great creative processes can occur and change the business. so i'm all for this. add in the fact that they, as we all know, don't have a proper current generation of stars largely because of them putting their eggs in only a few people's baskets, and often taking them out and putting them back in the largest basket (cena, triple h, rock, etc). this is what cm punk was talking about with the rock...although as booker t would say: don't hate the player, hate the game.
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johnnyaustin21
Main Eventer
Joined on: Nov 21, 2011 14:16:20 GMT -5
Posts: 1,609
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Post by johnnyaustin21 on Feb 25, 2016 18:25:51 GMT -5
The way I would do the new brand split is to basically make it WWE .Vs Indy in terms of how to divide up the shows.So something like this....
RAW:Cena,Reigns,Orton,Sheamus,Del Rio,Ziggler,Wyatt,Rusev,Strowman,Breeze,Corbin,Dudley Boyz,Usos,New Day..ect
Smackdown:Rollins,Ambrose,Styles,Owens,Joe,Aries,Balor,Zayn,Cesaro,Nakamura,Anderson,Gallows,Kalisto...ect
Dividing up the shows like this would give both a very different feel.RAW can be more of the old school Attitude era early 00's kind of stuff more focused on the storylines and more of and hard hitting WWE style of wrestling while Smackdown would be more like the current indy scene where its more focus on the in ring work where they can cut lose kind of like what ROH is right now.
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Matt Tell
Superstar
My name actually isn’t Matt.
Joined on: Sept 19, 2015 11:53:01 GMT -5
Posts: 614
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Post by Matt Tell on Feb 25, 2016 20:29:41 GMT -5
The brand split was a genius idea. It's part of the reason why the ruthless aggression era was my favorite. I would split it up like Raw: Dean Ambrose John Cena Dolph Ziggler Kevin Owens New Day Randy Orton Sheamus Big Show Ascension Charlotte Sasha Banks Finn Balor Balor Club Dash and Dawson Nikki Bella Alberto Del Rio Austin Aries Usos The Miz
Wildcard: Brock Lesnar
SmackDown!: Roman Reigns Cesaro Aj Styles Seth Rollins Dudley Boyz Lucha Dragons American Alpha Kane Paige Becky Lynch Bayley Sami Zayn Neville Rusev Baron Corbin Samoa Joe Shinsuke Nakamura Stardust Prime Time Players
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Matt Tell
Superstar
My name actually isn’t Matt.
Joined on: Sept 19, 2015 11:53:01 GMT -5
Posts: 614
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Post by Matt Tell on Feb 25, 2016 20:58:30 GMT -5
Put Enzo and Cass on Smackdown as well.
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Post by Dan on Feb 26, 2016 10:09:46 GMT -5
The way it's going everything seems to be in place for a brand split, or even a modern day Invasion. Shane could take control of Raw, while Stephanie manages Smackdown. I'm even starting to wonder if Reigns and Vince do a double turn at Wrestlemania as the biggest example of Vince's machine, forcing Triple H to turn babyface and bring in NXT. You even have the likes of Cena and Rollins etc to return which would be very much like when Rock returned back in 2001, with the parties trying to fight for their services.
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Post by HHH316 on Feb 26, 2016 11:05:42 GMT -5
The roster is way too thin for a split. A split also means more work on the writers. They are having a hard enough time with what they've got to work with.
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Post by J12 on Feb 26, 2016 11:16:42 GMT -5
I guess I just don't see why people are keen on this idea.
The roster is thin, and yes, it will get better post-injury swing, but it's still filled up with a bunch of guys who have been defined down to something lesser, and it's going to take a long time to fix that. They can't simply raid NXT and leave them void of talent, nor should you want them to. We've seen what Vince McMahon can and will do to NXT talent that he doesn't understand.
And that's really the problem. You can try to turn Smackdown into the workhorse show all you want, but Vince McMahon is still going to have his hands in it. It's going to have his stink, and there's no way that ends up being good for those guys.
We've seen this before. Vince tries to relinquish control of half of the roster, but ultimately can't, and he makes things muddy within weeks. The only way this works properly is if there is a true split, and Vince has absolutely nothing to do with half of the roster. I'm talking nothing. He doesn't go to tapings, he doesn't influence creative, he's totally hands off, a la NXT. That's just not going to happen.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Feb 26, 2016 11:57:03 GMT -5
I guess I just don't see why people are keen on this idea. The roster is thin, and yes, it will get better post-injury swing, but it's still filled up with a bunch of guys who have been defined down to something lesser, and it's going to take a long time to fix that. They can't simply raid NXT and leave them void of talent, nor should you want them to. We've seen what Vince McMahon can and will do to NXT talent that he doesn't understand. And that's really the problem. You can try to turn Smackdown into the workhorse show all you want, but Vince McMahon is still going to have his hands in it. It's going to have his stink, and there's no way that ends up being good for those guys. We've seen this before. Vince tries to relinquish control of half of the roster, but ultimately can't, and he makes things muddy within weeks. The only way this works properly is if there is a true split, and Vince has absolutely nothing to do with half of the roster. I'm talking nothing. He doesn't go to tapings, he doesn't influence creative, he's totally hands off, a la NXT. That's just not going to happen. The roster is a problem but so are the shows and that will never get fixed. WWE view Raw as their huge super show were Smackdown is the small D show. People who want it back are living in fantasy land but in reality it would suck and flop hard.
This also isn't the 00's anymore both shows are in 2 completely different positions.
Also I would like someone to answer a question. Why did the brandsplit end originally? They didn't end it for nothing so there had to be a reason to merge the roster.
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Post by J12 on Feb 26, 2016 16:30:45 GMT -5
I guess I just don't see why people are keen on this idea. The roster is thin, and yes, it will get better post-injury swing, but it's still filled up with a bunch of guys who have been defined down to something lesser, and it's going to take a long time to fix that. They can't simply raid NXT and leave them void of talent, nor should you want them to. We've seen what Vince McMahon can and will do to NXT talent that he doesn't understand. And that's really the problem. You can try to turn Smackdown into the workhorse show all you want, but Vince McMahon is still going to have his hands in it. It's going to have his stink, and there's no way that ends up being good for those guys. We've seen this before. Vince tries to relinquish control of half of the roster, but ultimately can't, and he makes things muddy within weeks. The only way this works properly is if there is a true split, and Vince has absolutely nothing to do with half of the roster. I'm talking nothing. He doesn't go to tapings, he doesn't influence creative, he's totally hands off, a la NXT. That's just not going to happen. The roster is a problem but so are the shows and that will never get fixed. WWE view Raw as their huge super show were Smackdown is the small D show. People who want it back are living in fantasy land but in reality it would suck and flop hard.
This also isn't the 00's anymore both shows are in 2 completely different positions.
Also I would like someone to answer a question. Why did the brandsplit end originally? They didn't end it for nothing so there had to be a reason to merge the roster.
I'd mentioned the shows earlier so I didn't bring it up this time, but yeah, that's an integral part of it. A brand split inherently doesn't work if you can't perceive the two as equals fighting for superiority. That was the draw of the split in the first place - it was, in theory, supposed to promote the competition that the company was lacking after WCW went out of business. At 2 hours, Smackdown is automatically perceived as "inferior" to Raw, despite the 2 hour format being vastly superior for any pro wrestling television program. So, to even consider it, they'd have to drop Raw to 2 hours, and I don't see that happening.
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 28, 2024 0:17:51 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2016 16:56:50 GMT -5
A key difference between now and the initial brand split was how much star power that the original shows had. Look at the first two picks. SmackDown! got The Rock and RAW got The Undertaker. Two stars that eclipse everyone on the current roster (except Cena) in terms of star power. Then RAW got the nWo and SD! got Hulk freaking Hogan. Not to mention Kurt Angle, Triple H, The Hardyz, The Dudleyz, Booker T, and so on. There was so much talent on the roster you could justify splitting it. Now? Who do we have? Two guys who are barely, just barely main event status in Ambrose and Reigns. Orton's hurt, Cena is clearly winding down...the time for a new set of dudes to carry the company is coming. Now, don't get me wrong, I like both guys but they can't carry two shows on their backs with such a weak Midcard.
I hate to say this is a bad idea due to how much I loved the brand split as a kid, but I just feel it is.
Later on, SmackDown! became Batista's show and RAW became Cena's. The last two, true Superstars the WWE made. A lot of people forget how over Big Dave was before his injury, but this dude was over like a rover. If he had been a few years younger, I feel like he might have taken Cena's spot as the top guy, but they made the right decision with Cena in the long run, obviously.
With SD! in the later years you had three top players in Batista, Mysterio, and Taker. RAW had Edge, Orton, and Cena. Not to mention, the great depth of a Midcard with a guy like Flair, who was getting up there in age, could still have excellent matches. HBK, who didn't need a World Title run to be over and actually got BETTER with age. So much talent during this time, you could justify a brand split. I do find it funny that Batista was made on RAW and Cena was made on SD!..then they switched brands and the opposite show became their show. haha
I personally preferred SD as a kid. Big Dave was my dude, and I liked the overall aspect and feeling of SD more. I felt they focused more on wrestling and less on over the top wackiness..and this was my thought process as a kid haha.
Now we have guys who are multiple time Champions who couldn't draw a dime. I love Del Rio and Sheamus, but they just flat out do not have the star power of Midcard's past, and they are former WWE Champions! The Midcard today is paper thin compared to years past, and people would not tune in to shows where guys like Ziggler, Kevin Owens, and Neville main evented. Could they get there one day? Maybe, but they aren't anywhere close to that now.
TLDR: They need to focus on re-building their star power first before even considering breaking back into two shows.
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Post by greenjack1992 on Feb 26, 2016 18:31:43 GMT -5
Keep the WWE WHC, Tag Team and Divas' Championships available for both shows (and have the champs appearing on both shows each week like they already do), but have the US title exclusive to Raw and the IC title exclusive to SmackDown! like Daniel Bryan wanted when he and Cena won them at WM31. Have the PPVs exclusive to each brand except for the big four: Royal Rumble, WrestleMania, Money in the Bank and SummerSlam (but move MITB to later in the year) and have the rosters look like this:
Shane McMahon's Raw:
Adam Rose Big E Big Show Bo Dallas Braun Strowman Bray Wyatt Brock Lesnar Chris Jericho Damien Sandow Darren Young Dolph Ziggler Erick Rowan Heath Slater Jey Uso Jimmy Uso John Cena Kofi Kingston Luke Harper The Miz R-Truth Roman Reigns Ryback Seth Rollins Sheamus Titus O'Neil The Undertaker Xavier Woods Zack Ryder Sting Becky Lynch Charlotte Emma Eva Marie Nikki Bella Paige Summer Rae
Stephanie McMahon's SmackDown!
AJ Styles Alberto Del Rio Alex Riley Bubba Ray Dudley Cesaro Curtis Axel Dean Ambrose Diego D-Von Dudley El Torito Fandango Fernando Goldust Jack Swagger Kalisto Kane Kevin Owens Konnor Mark Henry Neville Randy Orton Rusev Sin Cara Stardust Triple H Tyler Breeze Tyson Kidd Viktor Alicia Fox Brie Bella Cameron Naomi Natalya Rosa Mendes Sasha Banks Tamina
Don't pretend this wouldn't be best for business.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Feb 27, 2016 8:58:48 GMT -5
Also I would like someone to answer a question. Why did the brandsplit end originally? They didn't end it for nothing so there had to be a reason to merge the roster. [/p][/quote] It was specifically because Smackdown guys weren't becoming stars and selling tickets. That Sheamus, Del Rio, Ziggler etc era weren't getting over as main eventers by any financial measure. So WWE started doing "Raw Supershows" to get those guys more exposure on Raw sometimes, but that still didn't work and it was basically a case of Smackdown main eventer = Raw midcarder. They just didn't have the main event talent to carry two rosters anymore.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Feb 29, 2016 14:29:31 GMT -5
If they genuinely treated the brands as equal it could work well, but that would require SmackDown! going live and being in an equal slot (both time and network) to Raw, albeit on a different day. In 2002-04 the brand split was at its best because it was the closest it came to ever being equal. In 2005 they clearly began to prioritise Raw and that was the beginning of the end.
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